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2004 Cobra w/mods Vs. R34 Skyline w/mods

This is a discussion on 2004 Cobra w/mods Vs. R34 Skyline w/mods within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Originally Posted by Packy Not when you buy a used one overseas... Also I am very aware of the Wesman ...

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Not when you buy a used one overseas...

    Also I am very aware of the Wesman import bash. Yeah because fast isn't fast unless it has an American name... I am a diehard domestic guy but I live in a land now where there is nothing but this stuff. People do have American muscle here but they don't cut it loose or mod them at all. I don't give a shit those Skylines are badass and contrary to what you think Wesman they do make a fair amount of power under the curve... Also a stock motor in one will make around 550 whp all day and year long when tuned right. They are seriously strong a for a little inline 6.

    Wesman must be butthurt because he been smoked by an import before... With a whole 341 hp that is in his sig I would keep my opinions to myself until I rated to talk shit. If you have a question of when that is Wes. That privelige is socially granted when people know who are and know what your shit can do/back-up... Until then enjoy your lid, headers and exhaust... Be happy and have a nice tall glass of shut the fock up!!!
    In Wesman's defense I believe he attempted to build his car to handle better. However you're right on all points. I don't think he's ever raced or been in a high powered import. He is unbelievably biased, so he tries to gloss over facts with personal opinions. He'll find someway to bash it, whether it's looks, performance, handling, whatever. No car is perfect, each has it's flaws. However, whether import or domestic some can be built to do interesting things in the performance department.

  2. #42
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    Okay since we're mixin' apples and oranges, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and give my perspective from what I know about the 2 cars I own and play with.

    1) I have an 01 Camaro 3800II auto, factory everything.

    2) I also have a 92 z34 Lumina 3.4L dohc v6 auto.

    3) Camaro: DeCarbons on all 4 corners.

    4) Lumina: KYB all 4 corners.

    5) both cars generate 200 stock hp. (before z34 retune)

    6) both cars suffer from over steer, both cars are nearly the same weight with my z34 slightly edging out heavier, and my z34 is only 6 inches longer than my Camaro.

    7) Under my "sport tuned" Camaro is a fully independant front suspention and a fucking pickup live rear axle.

    8) Under my z34, again "sport tuned" suspention, fully independant front and rear.

    9) accelleration, Camaro pulls 2+ car lengths from a dig.

    10) Z34 catches it with it's much higher revs, then proceeds to drive right past my Camaro.

    A: First sweeping bend 90* west to north.

    1A: Camaro has to be slowed down to 70 mph from 100 to hold that bend. On 265 16s 50s. Sqweeling all 4.

    B: Z34 has to be slowed to 85 mph on the same bend from 100, on 235 16s 60s, sweeling right front only.

    B1: Camaro now has to reaccellerate back to 100.

    B2: Too late z34 is long gone.......

    So what have we learned children? GT-R vs pickup axled American muscle no contest....

    Love my American cars, but it's going to be clearly the better handling car that come out on top in most cases.
    That's GT-R 1 and F-body 0.....
    I would guesstimate it would be about the same for the Mustange aswell..

    Oh and ps. I've owned 4 f-bodies, 89,92,95, and 01, NONE would out handle my 17 yr old Z34....
    Last edited by Smittro; 08-25-2009 at 12:44 PM.
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  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Okay since we're mixin' apples and oranges, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and give my perspective from what I know about the 2 cars I own and play with.

    1) I have an 01 Camaro 3800II auto, factory everything.

    2) I also have a 92 z34 Lumina 3.4L dohc v6 auto.

    3) Camaro: DeCarbons on all 4 corners.

    4) Lumina: KYB all 4 corners.

    5) both cars generate 200 stock hp.

    6) both cars suffer from over steer, both cars are nearly the same weight with my z34 slightly edging out heavier, and my z34 is only 6 inches longer than my Camaro.

    7) Under my "sport tuned" Camaro is a fully independant front suspention and a fucking pickup live rear axle.

    8) Under my z34, again "sport tuned" suspention, fully independant front and rear.

    9) accelleration, Camaro pulls 2+ car lengths from a dig.

    10) Z34 catches it with it's much higher revs, then proceeds to drive right past my Camaro.

    A: First sweeping bend 90* west to north.

    1A: Camaro has to be slowed down to 70 mph from 100 to hold that bend. On 265 16s 50s. Sqweeling all 4.

    B: Z34 has to be slowed to 85 mph on the same bend from 100, on 235 16s 60s, sweeling right front only.

    B1: Camaro now has to reaccellerate back to 100.

    B2: Too late z34 is long gone.......

    So what have we learned children? GT-R vs pickup axled American muscle....

    Love my American cars, but it's going to be clearly the better handling car that come out on top in most cases.
    That's GT-R 1 and F-body 0.....
    I would guesstimate it would be about the same for the Mustange aswell..
    We all know this, were not trying to compare apples to oranges but Wesman does it all the time. Saying his T/A because of his suspension mods can keep up with STIs and EVOs and what not in twisties. Then we say but what about when you mods the suspension on those cars, he says they are already soo modded they dont gain that much handling. So basically he says his modded f-body can keep up with modded STIs and EVOs in twisties. Which i have told him many times wont happen. Those cars ahve tons of mods that improve handling over stock, there suspension still take into play that its a road sedan and therefore needs some kind of road tune.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    We all know this, were not trying to compare apples to oranges but Wesman does it all the time. Saying his T/A because of his suspension mods can keep up with STIs and EVOs and what not in twisties. Then we say but what about when you mods the suspension on those cars, he says they are already soo modded they dont gain that much handling. So basically he says his modded f-body can keep up with modded STIs and EVOs in twisties. Which i have told him many times wont happen. Those cars ahve tons of mods that improve handling over stock, there suspension still take into play that its a road sedan and therefore needs some kind of road tune.
    I gotcha, I was'nt trying to piss folks off. Just pointing out I believe the GT-R is IMHO the better car. These threads always go crazy after a few posts.
    I'll always own a Camaro cuz I love them to much to give up on them. But the fact is I cant let it bios the truth that while 4th gen F-bodies have much better handling than the old ones it just does'nt stack up against a AWD car built to corner.
    Last edited by Smittro; 08-26-2009 at 12:35 AM.

  5. #45
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    HEY!!!!!! Lets keep this on topic guys/gals! Everyone has an opinion. If you know what someones opinion is, no need to bash!




















































































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  6. #46
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    Lol, were not disputing opinion we are talking about facts. But yes i agree back to topic.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Not when you buy a used one overseas...

    Also I am very aware of the Wesman import bash. Yeah because fast isn't fast unless it has an American name... I am a diehard domestic guy but I live in a land now where there is nothing but this stuff. People do have American muscle here but they don't cut it loose or mod them at all. I don't give a shit those Skylines are badass and contrary to what you think Wesman they do make a fair amount of power under the curve... Also a stock motor in one will make around 550 whp all day and year long when tuned right. They are seriously strong a for a little inline 6.

    Wesman must be butthurt because he been smoked by an import before... With a whole 341 hp that is in his sig I would keep my opinions to myself until I rated to talk shit. If you have a question of when that is Wes. That privelige is socially granted when people know who you are and know what your shit can do/back-up... Until then enjoy your lid, headers and exhaust... Be happy and have a nice tall glass of shut the fock up!!!


    I have owned many different cars and can appreciate what each can do domestic and import. Comparing a Z28 and GTR is not fair, the GTR especially in the handling department. They were made for different people with different tastes and different incomes but both can be made to go fast.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post


    I have owned many different cars and can appreciate what each can do domestic and import. Comparing a Z28 and GTR is not fair, the GTR especially in the handling department. They were made for different people with different tastes and different incomes but both can be made to go fast.
    Thank your for reiterating.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    We all know this, were not trying to compare apples to oranges but Wesman does it all the time. Saying his T/A because of his suspension mods can keep up with STIs and EVOs and what not in twisties. Then we say but what about when you mods the suspension on those cars, he says they are already soo modded they dont gain that much handling. So basically he says his modded f-body can keep up with modded STIs and EVOs in twisties. Which i have told him many times wont happen. Those cars ahve tons of mods that improve handling over stock, there suspension still take into play that its a road sedan and therefore needs some kind of road tune.
    How can you sit there and make claims that have absolutely no basis?? My friend who has the STi is an excellent driver, and when we carve up back roads one of us is always pushing the other person. A car is a piece of equipment, and STi's are no different than any other vehicle on the road. Its simply set up to handle well from the factory, whereas I set up my car to handle with aftermarket parts. If you look at a stock Subaru Impreza, they don't handle worth a damn. The STi is just a factory modified version of that car. If you can't grasp that concept than you really are more clueless than I thought possible. You're basically saying F-bodies can't handle, and it couldn't be more untrue. You drive a Subaru Legacy, you are in no position to talk trash on ANYONE's car, nevermind an LS1 vehicle.
    Last edited by Wesman; 08-25-2009 at 03:28 PM.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    Sure they may not last long at close to 1000hp, but they can get close on stock internals. And at a 600-700hp tune they won't grenade like a bomb. They have an iron block, aluminum head setup. 7 main bearing layout. The engine is setup to make power.
    All Heresay. LS motors can do the same thing, but you don't see people doing it very often because its pointless unless you built the engine first. LS motors are setup to handle power was well. They use a 6 bolt main bearing design with deep block and structural oil pan. In LSX form, the block will hold 2,500HP, no problem. No Nissan engine can claim that.

    There are many Skylines going well past 200k miles in stock form and close to and above 200k miles modified. I'm not talking about 700hp Skylines. I'm talking about the ones that are modified with a modest street setup.
    Once again, all heresay. On a daily basis I see LSX engines in GM trucks with 200-300K+ still running like the day they drove off the lot.

    The reason we don't care about other forms of automotive racing is we are not influenced by them here. In the U.S. we have Nascar, 1/4 drag, and a couple others. You don't hear about rally and GT series racing in America.
    Watkins Glenn and Laguna Seca and Road America don't count for anything?? Ever heard of SCCA??

  11. #51
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    I can sum up this arguement real quick..... here it is..... Some cars are made better then others for different things. Once you start modding, its all out the window.... the one with the most cash wins

  12. #52
    Member stangereater's Avatar
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    I'm not going to bash anyones car, or any type of car for that matter! Personally I'm a domestic guy, but again I'm know a badass car when I see one! Nice races
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  13. #53
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    In Wesman's defense I believe he attempted to build his car to handle better. However you're right on all points. I don't think he's ever raced or been in a high powered import. He is unbelievably biased, so he tries to gloss over facts with personal opinions. He'll find someway to bash it, whether it's looks, performance, handling, whatever. No car is perfect, each has it's flaws. However, whether import or domestic some can be built to do interesting things in the performance department.
    who's glossing over facts with personal opinions? you're the one making baseless claims here trying to discredit another person, just because he speaks the truth about your precious ricers.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    How can you sit there and make claims that have absolutely no basis?? My friend who has the STi is an excellent driver, and when we carve up back roads one of us is always pushing the other person. A car is a piece of equipment, and STi's are no different than any other vehicle on the road. Its simply set up to handle well from the factory, whereas I set up my car to handle with aftermarket parts. If you look at a stock Subaru Impreza, they don't handle worth a damn. The STi is just a factory modified version of that car. If you can't grasp that concept than you really are more clueless than I thought possible. You're basically saying F-bodies can't handle, and it couldn't be more untrue. You drive a Subaru Legacy, you are in no position to talk trash on ANYONE's car, nevermind an LS1 vehicle.
    Then in your thinking a T/A is just a facotry modified version of a firebird. Im not sure what point you were trying to make by saying that.

    I never talked trash about your car or anyones and just because i drive a legacy now doesnt mean i havent had faster cars than you. All i said is your car will get blown away by a STI with suspension mods and you refuse to see that. Never said F-bodys cant handle, what i said is there are many many cars that can handle better with mods than a f-body with mods. Such as a modded with full suspension mods STI vs a modded F-body with the same suspension mods both with the same wheel hp, the STI is gonna win around a track.

    Wesman your more like a ricer than you think, they take light quick handling cars and try to make them fast in a straight line and start with an obvious bad platform for it. You took a car thats known for being fast in a straight line and made tired to build it for handling, you started with a worse platform for handling and therefore it will never be able to be as good as a car with a better platform for handling, like a AWD STI with multi link independent rear suspension for instance.
    Last edited by Zinergy; 08-26-2009 at 08:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    who's glossing over facts with personal opinions? you're the one making baseless claims here trying to discredit another person, just because he speaks the truth about your precious ricers.
    Please that skyline beat or stayed side by side with a 570whp cobra and wesman called it gutless. How is that not covering up the facts with his bias opinion. Can your T/A even stay within 15 cars of a 570whp cobra, probably not. You wil lprobably say soemthing like neither can yours, your right it cant but im not the one calling the skyline gutless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jomo View Post


    I have owned many different cars and can appreciate what each can do domestic and import. Comparing a Z28 and GTR is not fair, the GTR especially in the handling department. They were made for different people with different tastes and different incomes but both can be made to go fast.

    I am not the one who started comparing it was Wes. Ha ha ha ha!

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Please that skyline beat or stayed side by side with a 570whp cobra and wesman called it gutless. How is that not covering up the facts with his bias opinion. Can your T/A even stay within 15 cars of a 570whp cobra, probably not. You wil lprobably say soemthing like neither can yours, your right it cant but im not the one calling the skyline gutless.
    Gutless refers to low end power, not the peak power the engine is making at 8000RPM. You can have as much peak power as you want, if the car is a complete dog on the low end and has no torque its still worthless.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Then in your thinking a T/A is just a facotry modified version of a firebird. Im not sure what point you were trying to make by saying that.
    And guess what the Firebird was designed as?? A performance vehicle, nothing else - its not an econo car, or a family sedan, or a utility vehicle. Its a pony car.

    I never talked trash about your car or anyones and just because i drive a legacy now doesnt mean i havent had faster cars than you. All i said is your car will get blown away by a STI with suspension mods and you refuse to see that. Never said F-bodys cant handle, what i said is there are many many cars that can handle better with mods than a f-body with mods. Such as a modded with full suspension mods STI vs a modded F-body with the same suspension mods both with the same wheel hp, the STI is gonna win around a track.
    Considering you don't know my car at all, you really have no place to say anything. My car easily keeps up with my friends STI in the twisties, and destroys it in the straights. Its got aftermarket wheels and tires, exhaust, and tune. If I was going to compete with a modifed STI I would want coilovers at the least, because it would probably be above my current setup.

    Wesman your more like a ricer than you think, they take light quick handling cars and try to make them fast in a straight line and start with an obvious bad platform for it. You took a car thats known for being fast in a straight line and made tired to build it for handling, you started with a worse platform for handling and therefore it will never be able to be as good as a car with a better platform for handling, like a AWD STI with multi link independent rear suspension for instance.
    You wouldn't know handling if it slapped you in the face. STI's don't handle as magically as you think they do, a lot of that perception comes from how easy the car is to drive fast, even for a novice driver. A car like an F-body requires a lot more skill. You act as if F-bodies are not built for handling at all, the WS6 package is called the "Performance and HANDLING" package. Larger wheels, sway bars, PS cooler, ect. I've already explained that the F-body uses a superior front suspension design compared with the STI, and the F-bod chasiss has proven to be extremely capable. Stop being ignorant and acting like our cars have 1970's era handling capabilities.

  20. #60
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Please that skyline beat or stayed side by side with a 570whp cobra and wesman called it gutless.

    they are gutless in the sense that they have zero balls without full boost--- and people call them OMG so fast yet stock they're not. you can mod them to go faster JUST LIKE ANYTHING. they're just another rice machine.

    How is that not covering up the facts with his bias opinion. Can your T/A even stay within 15 cars of a 570whp cobra, probably not. You wil lprobably say soemthing like neither can yours, your right it cant but im not the one calling the skyline gutless.
    how did my car come into this? was this skyline almost stock and kept up with a 570 RWHP cobra? because that would be your point that someone took a mid 13 second skyline and kept up with a 570 RWHP cobra.

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