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2004 Cobra w/mods Vs. R34 Skyline w/mods

This is a discussion on 2004 Cobra w/mods Vs. R34 Skyline w/mods within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; I personally like the Skyline. I've always liked the earlier body lines such as the ones that were posted.. The ...

  1. #21
    ʢ ൧ ൨ ൩ ൪ ൫ ൬ ൭ ൮Ր Ց Ւ Փ Smittro's Avatar
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    I personally like the Skyline. I've always liked the earlier body lines such as the ones that were posted.. The GT-R is one of the best looking IMHO..
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  2. #22
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Nice another uneducated billy bob speaks... Dude I own an F-body and it is decently quick but for what you can do to a Skyline with its little inline 6 and a bit of boost is nice and reliable. You might wanna research why they only make 276 HP stock before you get hot on the keys. They are very similar to our LS1 F-bodies in the fact that they actually came with around 330 hp and are grossly de-tuned from the factory. Those cars where ahead of their time for the days that they were produced and now there is a huge aftermarket for them overseas! Ugly that is your opinion are you going to respect anyone elses.?.

    BTW- Does your F-body lift its front end?
    Uneducated?? Nothing in my post was incorrect. I just don't happen to see the appeal of an ugly ass ricer with a gutless straight 6. No matter what you do to that motor it will always have turbo lag, it will never have any low end power, and it will always sound like crap.

    So instead of investing all that time and money into a ricer, it would make much more sense to just build a turbo LSX, and have the best of both worlds.

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    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Uneducated?? Nothing in my post was incorrect. I just don't happen to see the appeal of an ugly ass ricer with a gutless straight 6. No matter what you do to that motor it will always have turbo lag, it will never have any low end power, and it will always sound like crap.

    So instead of investing all that time and money into a ricer, it would make much more sense to just build a turbo LSX, and have the best of both worlds.
    Yeah uneducated because in case you missed it that gutless inline 6 with TT's held right next to a 571rwhp car and I only edged him at the end. The other two races he put a half a car on me and held it throughout... So gutless I think not! Now go ahead insert your but it is a crappy Mustang Cobra comment and really shoot yourself in the foot! They don't lag like the Supra's are infamous for and they have better drag racing characteristics than you may be educated about. The sound and styling are your opinion. Whatever...

    For these guys to have a Turbo LSX it would cost them more than to buy a one of those Skylines and modify it a bit. I live in THE NETHERLANDS not the US... So LSX's are almost non-existant here. I have seen about 12 Vette's (10 C-5's and 2 C-6's) and like one Formula. All stock or very mild bolt-ons. My Cobra is the only one in the whole country. If you want a fast car you have to either import a Japanese car, buy an Mercedes AMG/M-series BMW, or import from America. It costs them less to bring a car from Japan here then it does to bring one from the US and the parts are more readily available for them here than it would be for them to go with US stuff. The cheapest option for them is the first one to import one of those from Japan and tune it up a bit.

    So does your F-body pull its front wheels? I see you failed to answer that question...
    Last edited by Packy; 08-23-2009 at 04:54 PM.

  4. #24
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    my floor jack lofts the fronts up...lol

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    uh i used to want a gtr so bad then just gave up... major props to whoever owns those... i love nissans lol and got a nismo 350z but its nothing like the 00 WS6 me and my dad have... but wow nice fuching cars lol

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Uneducated?? Nothing in my post was incorrect. I just don't happen to see the appeal of an ugly ass ricer with a gutless straight 6. No matter what you do to that motor it will always have turbo lag, it will never have any low end power, and it will always sound like crap.

    So instead of investing all that time and money into a ricer, it would make much more sense to just build a turbo LSX, and have the best of both worlds.
    It seems to me that you don't see the appeal in a car that can do more than lift the front wheels and go down the 1/4 mile.

    The Nissan Skyline is a far far far better all around car than an F-body could ever be. I don't argue with you that many aspects of the F-body are durable (excluding the 10 bolt rear), but when you talk about build quality and road/track performance.... are you seriously going to saying an F-body is better in that regard. I think not.

    You also brought up the fact that the Skyline GTR puts out 276hp stock. Did you know that the Subaru STI of that generation also puts out 276hp? So does the EVO and many other cars that are supposed to put out more power. Well they must all just suck and can't put out power then right? Due to Japanese law (gentleman's agreement) all cars must be restricted to 276hp. With nothing more than a reflash and a tune, they can put out around 330hp or more. There have been several people that have gotten close to 1000hp without ever touching the internals on the RB26DETT. Not only that, there are many going well over the 200k mile mark in modified form. The RB26DETT was designed for 500+hp in stock form. The early R32 cars in 1989, after removing the restriction placed on the boost and ECU detune could get to 60 in 4.6 seconds and get through the 1/4 mile in mid 12s. That's from an import car 20 years ago.

    Want to talk about racing heritage. When the R32 Skyline GTR was released, it dominated the Japanese Touring Car Championship taking the title from 1989-1993, and won 50/50 races from 1991-1997 in the N1 Rally Championship. When the car was entered into the Australian Touring Car Championship it dominated Group A Touring car racing, causing the demise of the division. The car was banned from other racing series due its capabilities. The R32 and R33 both set the Nürburgring fastest lap time for production car upon release. The Skyline also holds the 4 wheel drive, stock chassis, 1/4 mile record on 2 continents.

    I could go on and on about other aspects of the car... but it wont matter anyway. I don't know why I'm wasting my time typing this since you don't care anyway. To compare the all around capabilities of a Skyline and an F-body is ludicrous. Sure you can talk about lifting the front wheels off the ground, but if you want to talk about "real" racing that involves turning the steering wheel, the F-body doesn't hold a candle to some of the import cars.

    Call me a ricer, call me uneducated, ignorant, whatever... I have been on both sides of the fence for a long time. I'll say it once and say it again, the Skyline is a car that has one of the worst reputations behind it due to all the ricer fanboys considering it the best car ever made. If that aspect was deleted from history, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

  7. #27
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    It seems to me that you don't see the appeal in a car that can do more than lift the front wheels and go down the 1/4 mile.

    The Nissan Skyline is a far far far better all around car than an F-body could ever be. I don't argue with you that many aspects of the F-body are durable (excluding the 10 bolt rear), but when you talk about build quality and road/track performance.... are you seriously going to saying an F-body is better in that regard. I think not.

    You also brought up the fact that the Skyline GTR puts out 276hp stock. Did you know that the Subaru STI of that generation also puts out 276hp? So does the EVO and many other cars that are supposed to put out more power. Well they must all just suck and can't put out power then right? Due to Japanese law (gentleman's agreement) all cars must be restricted to 276hp. With nothing more than a reflash and a tune, they can put out around 330hp or more. There have been several people that have gotten close to 1000hp without ever touching the internals on the RB26DETT. Not only that, there are many going well over the 200k mile mark in modified form. The RB26DETT was designed for 500+hp in stock form. The early R32 cars in 1989, after removing the restriction placed on the boost and ECU detune could get to 60 in 4.6 seconds and get through the 1/4 mile in mid 12s. That's from an import car 20 years ago.

    Want to talk about racing heritage. When the R32 Skyline GTR was released, it dominated the Japanese Touring Car Championship taking the title from 1989-1993, and won 50/50 races from 1991-1997 in the N1 Rally Championship. When the car was entered into the Australian Touring Car Championship it dominated Group A Touring car racing, causing the demise of the division. The car was banned from other racing series due its capabilities. The R32 and R33 both set the Nürburgring fastest lap time for production car upon release. The Skyline also holds the 4 wheel drive, stock chassis, 1/4 mile record on 2 continents.

    I could go on and on about other aspects of the car... but it wont matter anyway. I don't know why I'm wasting my time typing this since you don't care anyway. To compare the all around capabilities of a Skyline and an F-body is ludicrous. Sure you can talk about lifting the front wheels off the ground, but if you want to talk about "real" racing that involves turning the steering wheel, the F-body doesn't hold a candle to some of the import cars.

    Call me a ricer, call me uneducated, ignorant, whatever... I have been on both sides of the fence for a long time. I'll say it once and say it again, the Skyline is a car that has one of the worst reputations behind it due to all the ricer fanboys considering it the best car ever made. If that aspect was deleted from history, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    WOW!!! Someones bitter In all seriousness (spell?) Good post, didn't know any of that info. I like the Skyline, that and the Supra would be my only two imports I would ever own...... well, maybe a few more but I'm not telling

  8. #28
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    All I will say is I sure as hell wish that GT-R (blue onein the pic) came in right hand drive. I would definitely have one for the winter.

    I love GTrs. They are great cars. I wouldn't trade the sound of my LT4 motor in my vette spinning 8000 rpms for any 4 or 6 turbo though

    I'll also add that I think the GTR shouldn't be compared to a Z at all. It is in a different league. It's a Marvel of a car with a Brilliant motor and a superb awd system. ALthough when you want to talk about power. I'm sorry but a GTR doesn't hold a candle to the flamethrower that is the LS1. Quite simply said from a physics standpoint- 'there is no replacement for displacement'. Here's an example of a 434 TT build for PUMP GAS on the street.

    Last edited by 5abivt; 08-23-2009 at 11:50 PM.

  9. #29
    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    All I will say is I sure as hell wish that GT-R (blue onein the pic) came in right hand drive. I would definitely have one for the winter.

    I love GTrs. They are great cars. I wouldn't trade the sound of my LT4 motor in my vette spinning 8000 rpms for any 4 or 6 turbo though
    That blue one is a right hand drive... I doubt you would wanna drive it in the winter.

  10. #30
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    That blue one is a right hand drive... I doubt you would wanna drive it in the winter.
    I caught the right hand drive thing myself.... I would love to drive one in the winter......that is, if I could afford to just fuck around with no consequences

  11. #31
    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    American cars will always be my favorite, but I can't argue that both European and Japanese makers have some jewels out there. Quite frankly, I feel that the Hyundai Genesis with 375 hp is an awesome family car and I'd own one in a heartbeat.

    As far as the f-body goes though, I barely fit in my Z28 (gotta do the head side-tilt to get in), so I'd have to guess the Skyline ain't happenin' for me.


    An old and very wise saying about firearms was, "Beware the man who only owns one gun for chances are he knows how to use it well". I sort of feel that applies to cars in some ways. A driver who sticks with one car and knows it inside and out, will usually have a big impact on how the car performs. That - to me - is more important than the car itself.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    ALthough when you want to talk about power. I'm sorry but a GTR doesn't hold a candle to the flamethrower that is the LS1. Quite simply said from a physics standpoint- 'there is no replacement for displacement'. Here's an example of a 434 TT build for PUMP GAS on the street.
    Yeah, my argument was on the F-body as a whole. I have no doubts that a nice turbo setup on an LSX motor will produce far more horsepower and torque than a straight 6 ever could.

  13. #33
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Yeah uneducated because in case you missed it that gutless inline 6 with TT's held right next to a 571rwhp car and I only edged him at the end. The other two races he put a half a car on me and held it throughout... So gutless I think not!
    You can make big peak numbers all day, its the power under the curve and torque that really matter. Ricers like to brag that they make XXX amount of power at whatever sky high RPM they record it at, but they neglect to mention that their shitty engine only makes 73ft/lbs of torque below 5,000RPM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    It seems to me that you don't see the appeal in a car that can do more than lift the front wheels and go down the 1/4 mile.
    Not true at all. If all I wanted to do was go straight I wouldn't have a full array of chassis, suspension, and brake upgrades on my car. I didn't get Brembo brakes with 14" rotors to only go fast in a straight line. My car keeps up with my friends STI on the back roads, except my car is much faster and stops even better.

    The Nissan Skyline is a far far far better all around car than an F-body could ever be. I don't argue with you that many aspects of the F-body are durable (excluding the 10 bolt rear), but when you talk about build quality and road/track performance.... are you seriously going to saying an F-body is better in that regard. I think not.
    Yes, I seriously am, because that is nothing more than your opinion. I've seen Nissan Skylines in person, and there is nothing about that car that impresses me at all. Its not attractive at all, its no better built than your average Honda Civic, and it sounds like crap. Yet ricers pay tens of thousands of dollars to import one here. Makes no sense.

    You also brought up the fact that the Skyline GTR puts out 276hp stock. Did you know that the Subaru STI of that generation also puts out 276hp? So does the EVO and many other cars that are supposed to put out more power. Well they must all just suck and can't put out power then right? Due to Japanese law (gentleman's agreement) all cars must be restricted to 276hp. With nothing more than a reflash and a tune, they can put out around 330hp or more. There have been several people that have gotten close to 1000hp without ever touching the internals on the RB26DETT.
    I don't believe for one minute that a Skyline engine is going to hold 1,000HP without any internal modifications. Maybe you should have pout an "*" and denoted it held 1,000HP for .033 seconds and then blew apart like a bomb.

    Not only that, there are many going well over the 200k mile mark in modified form. The RB26DETT was designed for 500+hp in stock form. The early R32 cars in 1989, after removing the restriction placed on the boost and ECU detune could get to 60 in 4.6 seconds and get through the 1/4 mile in mid 12s. That's from an import car 20 years ago.
    No heavily boosted engine that small is going to live a healthy life to 200,000 miles. Evos and STIs can't even hit 200K bone stock. Its simply not going to happen, boosting an engine that small puts so much stress on engine internals that physics are completely against you. Everything from piston ring wear to oil dilution is working against you.

    Want to talk about racing heritage. When the R32 Skyline GTR was released, it dominated the Japanese Touring Car Championship taking the title from 1989-1993, and won 50/50 races from 1991-1997 in the N1 Rally Championship. When the car was entered into the Australian Touring Car Championship it dominated Group A Touring car racing, causing the demise of the division. The car was banned from other racing series due its capabilities. The R32 and R33 both set the Nürburgring fastest lap time for production car upon release. The Skyline also holds the 4 wheel drive, stock chassis, 1/4 mile record on 2 continents.
    Guess how much anyone cares about the Japanese or Austrailian "Touring car Championship"?? I don't even have to say, I think its obvious that its irrelevent.

    It doesn't matter if the Skyline had a Nurburgring record. There are much better, faster cars out now that make mince meat of the Skyline.

    I could go on and on about other aspects of the car... but it wont matter anyway. I don't know why I'm wasting my time typing this since you don't care anyway. To compare the all around capabilities of a Skyline and an F-body is ludicrous. Sure you can talk about lifting the front wheels off the ground, but if you want to talk about "real" racing that involves turning the steering wheel, the F-body doesn't hold a candle to some of the import cars.
    Since you're like every other typical import fanboy who thinks they know it all, why don't you explain the why the F-body chassis is so bad?? Its not. The issue is its simply not setup for handling from the factory, which can be addressed with some relatively simple aftermarket performance upgrades.

    Don't be ignorant. If a Mitsubishi Lancer economy car car be setup to handle, an F-body sure as hell can.

    Call me a ricer, call me uneducated, ignorant, whatever... I have been on both sides of the fence for a long time. I'll say it once and say it again, the Skyline is a car that has one of the worst reputations behind it due to all the ricer fanboys considering it the best car ever made. If that aspect was deleted from history, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
    Exactly, because nobody would care enough about a car that bland and uninteresting to bring the arguement up in the first place.
    Last edited by Wesman; 08-24-2009 at 08:35 PM.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superluminal View Post
    Yeah, my argument was on the F-body as a whole. I have no doubts that a nice turbo setup on an LSX motor will produce far more horsepower and torque than a straight 6 ever could.
    You know what I meant though. I wasn't putting down the Skyline motor it's just a simple fact. Even the new r35 increased displacement to make more power. Having a factory engineered turbo motor is such an advantage though that I wont even get into here.

    Over all I do agree with you. If I had a r34 in front of me (again if it was left hand drive which i doubt there is any) i wouldnt even look twice at my Z. I wouldnt give up my vette for it but ever since Grand turismo I fell in love with the r34 GT-R.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Since you're like every other typical import fanboy who thinks they know it all, why don't you explain the why the F-body chassis is so bad?? Its not. The issue is its simply not setup for handling from the factory, which can be addressed with some relatively simple aftermarket performance upgrades.

    Don't be ignorant. If a Mitsubishi Lancer economy car car be setup to handle, an F-body sure as hell can.
    Deja vu, I feel like I've discussed this with you before in a past thread. I never said that the car couldn't handle when setup properly. My opinion on the car was that to me it was rubbish. Everyone has different views on different vehicles, which is extremely apparent between us. I was simply stating that in stock format, because the car is set up for straight line performance, it doesn't handle well. I did not like the handling characteristics of the car. The weight transfer felt awkward, it was hard to tell what the rear end was going to do, the steering felt sloppy, and even though the ride was decent it just didn't handle like I wanted. And yes, I did do suspension upgrades and was still not satisfied with the car. Granted I had a regular Camaro Z28 and not a WS6 or SS (I'm unsure if these have suspension package, but I rode in one and it felt more firm and planted than my Z28).

    I am well aware you can get any car to handle properly if you setup and tune the suspension right. I'm just stating that for the most part, you get better handling in an import car out of the box. In my opinion, if you want an LSX car that can handle very well and respond well to suspension modifications your best bet is one with independent rear suspension and a chassis that was designed to do so. Which for GM leaves you with a Corvette and GTO lineups.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Yes, I seriously am, because that is nothing more than your opinion. I've seen Nissan Skylines in person, and there is nothing about that car that impresses me at all. Its not attractive at all, its no better built than your average Honda Civic, and it sounds like crap. Yet ricers pay tens of thousands of dollars to import one here. Makes no sense.
    And that's your opinion.

    People who import them pay too much yes, but those overseas were factory listed cars bought at the dealer. They didn't pay the rediculous prices to import them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    I don't believe for one minute that a Skyline engine is going to hold 1,000HP without any internal modifications. Maybe you should have pout an "*" and denoted it held 1,000HP for .033 seconds and then blew apart like a bomb.
    Sure they may not last long at close to 1000hp, but they can get close on stock internals. And at a 600-700hp tune they won't grenade like a bomb. They have an iron block, aluminum head setup. 7 main bearing layout. The engine is setup to make power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    No heavily boosted engine that small is going to live a healthy life to 200,000 miles. Evos and STIs can't even hit 200K bone stock. Its simply not going to happen, boosting an engine that small puts so much stress on engine internals that physics are completely against you. Everything from piston ring wear to oil dilution is working against you.
    There are many Skylines going well past 200k miles in stock form and close to and above 200k miles modified. I'm not talking about 700hp Skylines. I'm talking about the ones that are modified with a modest street setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Guess how much anyone cares about the Japanese or Austrailian "Touring car Championship"?? I don't even have to say, I think its obvious that its irrelevent.

    It doesn't matter if the Skyline had a Nurburgring record. There are much better, faster cars out now that make mince meat of the Skyline.
    That's right we're talking about a car that is OLD now. It set the fastest lap times of the time. Of course newer and better engineered cars are going to get around the track faster.

    The reason we don't care about other forms of automotive racing is we are not influenced by them here. In the U.S. we have Nascar, 1/4 drag, and a couple others. You don't hear about rally and GT series racing in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Exactly, because nobody would care enough about a car that bland and uninteresting to bring the arguement up in the first place.
    Again, your opinion reflects.

  17. #37
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    Wesman hates everything import, even if that person has put more time and sweat into there car than he ever will. Even if its tastfully cosmetically modded. Even if that car mkes 800whp, runs a 9second quarter mile and laps the Ring in 6 minutes and 50 seconds he will still have only hatred for it.

  18. #38
    Member Redegal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    You may wanna read up on the GTR's a little more thoroughly... Althought they are made in Japan they are very fast and extremely great at handling as well! They put our F-bodies to shame in build quality and performance alone.
    I think GTR's might be a little more $$ than an Fbody but maybe I should read up.
    2002 SS M6 Convertible

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redegal View Post
    I think GTR's might be a little more $$ than an Fbody but maybe I should read up.

    Not when you buy a used one overseas...

    Also I am very aware of the Wesman import bash. Yeah because fast isn't fast unless it has an American name... I am a diehard domestic guy but I live in a land now where there is nothing but this stuff. People do have American muscle here but they don't cut it loose or mod them at all. I don't give a shit those Skylines are badass and contrary to what you think Wesman they do make a fair amount of power under the curve... Also a stock motor in one will make around 550 whp all day and year long when tuned right. They are seriously strong a for a little inline 6.

    Wesman must be butthurt because he been smoked by an import before... With a whole 341 hp that is in his sig I would keep my opinions to myself until I rated to talk shit. If you have a question of when that is Wes. That privelige is socially granted when people know who you are and know what your shit can do/back-up... Until then enjoy your lid, headers and exhaust... Be happy and have a nice tall glass of shut the fock up!!!
    Last edited by Packy; 08-25-2009 at 11:44 AM.

  20. #40
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