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01 ta vs 08 gt

This is a discussion on 01 ta vs 08 gt within the Kill Stories forums, part of the Racing Forums category; Personally, I've NEVER been smoked by a stock, ESPECIALLY STOCK, or a mildy modded LS1 or 2 like some of ...

  1. #101
    Member Camarofan's Avatar
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    Personally, I've NEVER been smoked by a stock, ESPECIALLY STOCK, or a mildy modded LS1 or 2 like some of the stories shown here. I've been beaten by a couple and I've beaten a couple too. I just don't see the "Not even close" thing. I've seen modded LS1's brag about beating S197's fresh out of the dealership. If you've modded your LSx's, they'd better beat a stock 4.6 or else I'd be upset. The thing I know about the LS1 over the Stang is how they respond to Headwork and or Cams. Now THAT is impressive. Other than that, there's alot of stretching the truth. My 4.10/intake/exhaust/tuned Stang will outrun a bunch of LS1's and even some 2's. Good drivers will come verrry close. When I was stock, it was always within a car length whether I won or lost. This is my personal experience. I've seen many poor LS1 drivers and poor S197 drivers. The cars are closer than you think stock. Once the LS1 cams, the gap widens and the S197s must go to the boost because there's no replacement for displacement rule comes into effect once the modding starts.
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 04:10 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    Personally, I've NEVER been smoked by a stock, ESPECIALLY STOCK, or a mildy modded LS1 or 2 like some of the stories shown here. I've been beaten by a couple and I've beaten a couple too. I just don't see the "Not even close" thing. I've seen modded LS1's brag about beating S197's fresh out of the dealership. If you've modded your LSx's, they'd better beat a stock 4.6 or else I'd be upset. The thing I know about the LS1 over the Stang is how they respond to Headwork and or Cams. Now THAT is impressive. Other than that, there's alot of stretching the truth. My 4.10/intake/exhaust/tuned Stang will outrun a bunch of LS1's and even some 2's. Good drivers will come verrry close. When I was stock, it was always within a car length whether I won or lost. This is my personal experience. I've seen many poor LS1 drivers and poor S197 drivers. The cars are closer than you think stock. Once the LS1 cams, the gap widens and the S197s must go to the boost because there's no replacement for displacement rule comes into effect once the modding starts.
    You shouldn't be staying within a car length of any LS1 M6 car with a driver that truly knows how to drive it! I watched my brother spank my best friends '06 GT 4 out of 4 at the track. His completely stock '01 SS wen't 13.2-13.4@106-107 against my boys consistant 13.7-13.9@102-103 passes. Not implying that he is the best driver in the world, but his times are right on par with 99.9% of the S197's i've seen run till this day. LS1's with top-notch drivers are low 13-second cars; S197's w/ the alike are mid 13-second cars...do the math. It's most likely NOT the cars you are beating, but the drivers!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    Personally, I've NEVER been smoked by a stock, ESPECIALLY STOCK, or a mildy modded LS1 or 2 like some of the stories shown here. I've been beaten by a couple and I've beaten a couple too. I just don't see the "Not even close" thing. I've seen modded LS1's brag about beating S197's fresh out of the dealership. If you've modded your LSx's, they'd better beat a stock 4.6 or else I'd be upset. The thing I know about the LS1 over the Stang is how they respond to Headwork and or Cams. Now THAT is impressive. Other than that, there's alot of stretching the truth. My 4.10/intake/exhaust/tuned Stang will outrun a bunch of LS1's and even some 2's. Good drivers will come verrry close. When I was stock, it was always within a car length whether I won or lost. This is my personal experience. I've seen many poor LS1 drivers and poor S197 drivers. The cars are closer than you think stock. Once the LS1 cams, the gap widens and the S197s must go to the boost because there's no replacement for displacement rule comes into effect once the modding starts.
    then could you explain to me how i when i was completely stock in my 98 A4 ls1, i walked an 07 GT by 3 cars? and i had a passenger.. from 25-90...

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    I think what he is saying,,,and I'm not trying to side with the ford guy here,,,,but I understand his point of view. There are alot of stories here that get blown out of proportion. It may be the choice of words more than anything....like,,,,I just smoked a mustang,,,,or,,,, I just blew his doors off,,,or I just spanked a mustang,,,,,when in reality after you read the whole story,,,it was a very long drawn out race from 20 to 100 mph and then the LS1 only had 2-3 cars on the mustang

    I'm sorry but thats not spanking, blowing, or smoking a car,,,,thats a fairly close race that would only seperate the cars by 2-3 tenths of a second. In my opinion that is just winning by a small margin....

    N20LT4 points this out,,,,stating an SS went 13.2-13.4 and a GT stang went 13.7-13.9,,,,thats a pretty small margin and in reality thats only about 3-4 car lengths,,,,and could have been closer at any given time considering the wide spread ET margin both cars were running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigersport14 View Post
    then could you explain to me how i when i was completely stock in my 98 A4 ls1, i walked an 07 GT by 3 cars? and i had a passenger.. from 25-90...
    Did the 07 GT have the 3:42 gearing? Or the 3.55's like the 05's and 6's? The 07's on up are a bit heavier than the 05/06's because of suspension changes and they come with 3:42's I believe, unless you request the 3:55's. Are you a hell of a driver? Could be. Were they a crappy driver? I dunno. Not trying to insult your TA because i love em, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't have beat me or any of my friends by 3 cars, stock for stock and with a passenger?. No. But I see the race was from 25 to 90. I think you would've possible beaten me stock for stock, because I couldn't bring, into play, the nice Launches these cars have, plus the stock tune for these things are complelety gay, lol. If it was a 3:42 07 auto, then your story was true I bet.
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 11:52 AM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    You shouldn't be staying within a car length of any LS1 M6 car with a driver that truly knows how to drive it! I watched my brother spank my best friends '06 GT 4 out of 4 at the track. His completely stock '01 SS wen't 13.2-13.4@106-107 against my boys consistant 13.7-13.9@102-103 passes. Not implying that he is the best driver in the world, but his times are right on par with 99.9% of the S197's i've seen run till this day. LS1's with top-notch drivers are low 13-second cars; S197's w/ the alike are mid 13-second cars...do the math. It's most likely NOT the cars you are beating, but the drivers!
    I can see why you believe what you believe. You, like me, are going by what you see. I go to the track every year and watch all types of cars too. I see the crappy drivers in LS1's/Terminators/Vettes, you name it. I've seen the good drivers too. It's kinda hard to talk times with sea level guys, but your 13.7-9's would translate to 14.8-15's up here at 5880ft. The 13.2's-4's would be 14.4's-6's. I've had the car 2 years, and I doubt that EVERYONE I've seen or raced against were poor drivers. The cars are close enough stock that both have to drive really well or else the other may get em. Now, once you boyz start going into the heads of these things, then that LS1 goes insane.

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    Member Camarofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I think what he is saying,,,and I'm not trying to side with the ford guy here,,,,but I understand his point of view. There are alot of stories here that get blown out of proportion. It may be the choice of words more than anything....like,,,,I just smoked a mustang,,,,or,,,, I just blew his doors off,,,or I just spanked a mustang,,,,,when in reality after you read the whole story,,,it was a very long drawn out race from 20 to 100 mph and then the LS1 only had 2-3 cars on the mustang

    I'm sorry but thats not spanking, blowing, or smoking a car,,,,thats a fairly close race that would only seperate the cars by 2-3 tenths of a second. In my opinion that is just winning by a small margin....

    N20LT4 points this out,,,,stating an SS went 13.2-13.4 and a GT stang went 13.7-13.9,,,,thats a pretty small margin and in reality thats only about 3-4 car lengths,,,,and could have been closer at any given time considering the wide spread ET margin both cars were running.
    Cool dude, I'm not on here saying N/A for N/A, my 4.6 will outmod an LSx. That would be stretching the truth, but to hear these guys stories are comical sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    I can see why you believe what you believe. You, like me, are going by what you see. I go to the track every year and watch all types of cars too. I see the crappy drivers in LS1's/Terminators/Vettes, you name it. I've seen the good drivers too. It's kinda hard to talk times with sea level guys, but your 13.7-9's would translate to 14.8-15's up here at 5880ft. The 13.2's-4's would be 14.4's-6's. I've had the car 2 years, and I doubt that EVERYONE I've seen or raced against were poor drivers. The cars are close enough stock that both have to drive really well or else the other may get em. Now, once you boyz start going into the heads of these things, then that LS1 goes insane.
    No disrespect to you buddy, I have no problems with the S197's...they are good looking, quick cars, but I honestly have to differ. Look at the two cars from a power perspective, in which an LS1 car will (on average) put down around 30-40 more horsepower to the wheels. I'm not making our cars out to be God or anything, but an LS1 is capable of very low 13's at pretty close to 110 (107-108). Now while you don't see many stock cars that run those kind of times (I mean let's be honest, probably less than 10% of racers can drive that good) they are proven to run that. An S197 GT is not quite there. A 13.4-13.5 is a top-notch pass in a S197 stang - highly respectable for a 281-cubed car with a Curb well over 3000lbs, but not quite there with the LS1 cars. 3-4 tenths may sound small, but that translates to roughly 3-4 car lengths on the street (or the track), and let's be honest, getting ran by 3-4 lengths would not be considered a pretty close race. 1-2 lengths is what I would consider close - but that's just my opinion. But as you stated in so many words, all drivers ARE NOT equal, so I wouldn't be suprised if your GT (in stock trim) took an LS1 F-body. For gosh sakes i've seen guys go 13.8-13.9 in their M6 LS1's in good weather, so it's definitely possible. But i've also seen guys that can drive, like this older man I will never forget about back 2002 that took his showroom floor Artic white '02 WS6 M6 Convertible with the dealer plates still on it to a 13.1@106mph pass on the stock rubber - which then made me a true believer of the potential of the LS1 cars w/ the right driver behind the wheel!
    Last edited by N20LT4; 06-26-2008 at 12:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    Did the 07 GT have the 3:42 gearing? Or the 3.55's like the 05's and 6's? The 07's on up are a bit heavier than the 05/06's because of suspension changes and they come with 3:42's I believe, unless you request the 3:55's. Are you a hell of a driver? Could be. Were they a crappy driver? I dunno. Not trying to insult your TA because i love em, but I guarantee you that you wouldn't have beat me or any of my friends by 3 cars, stock for stock and with a passenger?. No. But I see the race was from 25 to 90. I think you would've possible beaten me stock for stock, because I couldn't bring, into play, the nice Launches these cars have, plus the stock tune for these things are complelety gay, lol. If it was a 3:42 07 auto, then your story was true I bet.
    3.42? Since when does Ford make that gear for an 8.8 rear end. Do you mean 3.27?

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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    No disrespect to you buddy, I have no problems with the S197's...they are good looking, quick cars, but I honestly have to differ. Look at the two cars from a power perspective, in which an LS1 car will (on average) put down around 30-40 more horsepower to the wheels. I'm not making our cars out to be God or anything, but an LS1 is capable of very low 13's at pretty close to 110 (107-108). Now while you don't see many stock cars that run those kind of times (I mean let's be honest, probably less than 10% of racers can drive that good) they are proven to run that. An S197 GT is not quite there. A 13.4-13.5 is a top-notch pass in a S197 stang - highly respectable for a 281-cubed car with a Curb well over 3000lbs, but not quite there with the LS1 cars. 3-4 tenths may sound small, but that translates to roughly 3-4 car lengths on the street (or the track), and let's be honest, getting ran by 3-4 lengths would not be considered a pretty close race. 1-2 lengths is what I would consider close - but that's just my opinion. But as you stated in so many words, all drivers ARE NOT equal, so I wouldn't be suprised if your GT (in stock trim) took an LS1 F-body. For gosh sakes i've seen guys go 13.8-13.9 in their M6 LS1's in good weather, so it's definitely possible. But i've also seen guys that can drive, like this older man I will never forget about back 2002 that took his showroom floor Artic white '02 WS6 M6 Convertible with the dealer plates still on it to a 13.1@106mph pass on the stock rubber - which then made me a true believer of the potential of the LS1 cars w/ the right driver behind the wheel!
    I'd have to agree. When you throw up equal cars, I.E. stock vs. stock, same mods vs. same mods, the LS1 will dominate, no matter what.
    Last edited by squee; 06-26-2008 at 12:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    My 4.10/intake/exhaust/tuned Stang will outrun a bunch of LS1's and even some 2's.
    Uh, I'm gonna have to call on this one. With only those few mods you have and you're outruning a 3200lb 400hp car that runs mid 12's stock in your 3500lb car that may have 320 or 330hp? I'm finding this a bit hard to believe unless you were racing some 90 year old guy who didn't know he was in a race...lol.

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    Member Camarofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    No disrespect to you buddy, I have no problems with the S197's...they are good looking, quick cars, but I honestly have to differ. Look at the two cars from a power perspective, in which an LS1 car will (on average) put down around 30-40 more horsepower to the wheels. I'm not making our cars out to be God or anything, but an LS1 is capable of very low 13's at pretty close to 110 (107-108). Now while you don't see many stock cars that run those kind of times (I mean let's be honest, probably less than 10% of racers can drive that good) they are proven to run that. An S197 GT is not quite there. A 13.4-13.5 is a top-notch pass in a S197 stang - highly respectable for a 281-cubed car with a Curb well over 3000lbs, but not quite there with the LS1 cars. 3-4 tenths may sound small, but that translates to roughly 3-4 car lengths on the street (or the track), and let's be honest, getting ran by 3-4 lengths would not be considered a pretty close race. 1-2 lengths is what I would consider close - but that's just my opinion. But as you stated in so many words, all drivers ARE NOT equal, so I wouldn't be suprised if your GT (in stock trim) took an LS1 F-body. For gosh sakes i've seen guys go 13.8-13.9 in their M6 LS1's in good weather, so it's definitely possible. But i've also seen guys that can drive, like this older man I will never forget about back 2002 that took his showroom floor Artic white '02 WS6 M6 Convertible with the dealer plates still on it to a 13.1@106mph pass on the stock rubber - which then made me a true believer of the potential of the LS1 cars w/ the right driver behind the wheel!
    And I don't doubt you have a problem with the S197's. As far as me, owning the car for two years, racing Mach 1's, Terminators, LS1/2's and the new vettes at the track, I know which one's beat me and how much. I've never, nor will I ever get beat by 3 or 4 car lengths by a stock or close to stock LS1. An Intake and exhaust LS1 will be a good run with me now, but still no 3 or 4 car lengths. I'm assuming that most of these are roll races, in which the LS1 should pull hard, especially on a Stock S197 seeing the most LS1's are modded now and the strong point of the S197's are their Launching. Part of my stubborness in believing alot of the false stories, are hanging with my friend, who has an SS that could spank many of the guys here, including myself. He bought an S197 after driving mine, but had to let it go financially. He's the one that remembers his car stock and he says in stock trim, the LS1 is about a 1 to 1/2 car lengths quicker stock. Based on my races, that is totally true because My races are always depending on driver error. Good drivers in LS1's probably would pull out in the top of 3rd, from what I've seen. Not the Honda Civic type blow outs I hear all the time, but anyways, you guys have a legendary motor. You should be proud, but remember, There's always someone faster once the modding begins. My track is crazy, there are Scions, Beetles, and even that would spank alot of us. Believe me, i've been a victom and so have my buddies pullied Cobra.
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 04:49 PM.

  14. #114
    Member Camarofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns00Z28 View Post
    Uh, I'm gonna have to call on this one. With only those few mods you have and you're outruning a 3200lb 400hp car that runs mid 12's stock in your 3500lb car that may have 320 or 330hp? I'm finding this a bit hard to believe unless you were racing some 90 year old guy who didn't know he was in a race...lol.
    I was waiting for the BS flag, lol. The guy in the GTO didn't believe I wasn't blown or spraying. The Goats don't weigh 3200 lbs BTW, if that's what you were speaking about and the LS2 Cts-V's are 3550 or so.

    Against the LS2.

    Here's the one this year

    And here's the one Last summer

    Both were puzzled when I told them I wasn't modded more than I am.

    And according to what I hear, my mods should make me about even with the LS2 or 1.

    I did talk to a guy that had an A4 Camaro with 4.10's Intake and exhaust and that thing pulled like a mother!! LoL, I almost didn't believe he wasn't doing a shot himself. He beat me by 2 cars or so and I out launched him. This was before I opened my exhaust like he did. Now, with my high flows, my times are where he was and even 2 tenths quicker, but I haven't seen him. I hope to run into him at the track so we can run em. He was cool.
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 05:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    And I don't doubt you have a problem with the S197's. As far as me, owning the car for two years, racing Mach 1's, Terminators, LS1/2's and the new vettes at the track, I know which one's beat me and how much. I've never, nor will I ever get beat by 3 or 4 car lengths by a stock or close to stock LS1. An Intake and exhaust LS1 will be a good run with me now, but still no 3 or 4 car lengths. I'm assuming that most of these are roll races, in which the LS1 should pull hard, especially on a Stock S197 seeing the most LS1's are modded now and the strong point of the S197's are their Launching. Part of my stubborness in believing alot of the false stories, are hanging with my friend, who has an SS that could spank many of the guys here, including myself. He bought an S197 after driving mine, but had to let it go financially. He's the one that remembers his car stock and he says in stock trim, the LS1 is about a 1 to 1/2 car lengths quicker stock. Based on my races, that is totally true because My races are always depending on driver error. Good drivers in LS1's probably would pull out in the top of 3rd, from what I've seen. Not the Honda Civic type blow outs I hear all the time, but anyways, you guys have a legendary motor. You should be proud, but remember, There's always someone faster once the modding begins. My track is crazy, there are Scions, Beetles, and even that would spank alot of us. Believe me, i've been a victom and so have my buddies pullied Cobra.
    I guess your not really getting my drift...so I tell you what; When you can show me a timeslip, of your car or anyone else's stock S197 Mustang for that matter, that has ran a high 12 to low 13-second timeslip in 100% stock form, only then will I change my opinion. Until then, it's all speculation to me.
    Last edited by N20LT4; 06-26-2008 at 05:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogs01gt View Post
    3.42? Since when does Ford make that gear for an 8.8 rear end. Do you mean 3.27?
    Maybe, hell I dunno. That's even worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    I guess your not really getting my drift...so I tell you what; When you can show me a timeslip, of your car or anyone else's stock S197 Mustang for that matter, that has ran a high 12 to low 13-second timeslip in 100% stock form, only then will I change my opinion. Until then, it's all speculation to me.
    Against the goat. Usually, the goats run 14.4/5 stock around here. Good drivers get em to about 14.2 or so.



    It's a lil wierd trying to do this because running at 5800+feet adds at least a second to 1.2 more to your times, but I posted the vids above. I can't do the 12 second timeslip in stock form cuz I've never heard of it in the S197's, plus we equate that to a 13 second timeslip here. My converted stock time is 13.4. My friends is 13.3, which is about right. My point is not about stock trim, it's about the LS1's and 2's that look at my car and think they're going to walk it with my mods.
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 05:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    Click for full size


    It's a lil wierd trying to do this because running at 5800+feet adds at least a second to 1.2 more to your times, but I posted the vids above. I can't do the 12 second timeslip in stock form cuz I've never heard of it in the S197's, plus we equate that to a 13 second timeslip here. My converted stock time is 13.4. My friends is 13.3, which is about right. My point is not about stock trim, it's about the LS1's and 2's that look at my car and think they're going to walk it with my mods.
    If it's not about stock trim then are you aware that LS1's can achieve around 350+rwhp w/ bolt-ons? The simple mods like headers, cat-back, cold air, TB...you get my drift, can put up numbers like that. A bolt-on 4.6 isn't touching that, so a situation w/ good driver versus good driver shouldn't come out the way your are making it to be. But I don't know, anything can happen. Maybe that's how the LS1 cars run up there where your at? Down here in California it's a different story.

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    Member Camarofan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N20LT4 View Post
    If it's not about stock trim then are you aware that LS1's can achieve around 350+rwhp w/ bolt-ons? The simple mods like headers, cat-back, cold air, TB...you get my drift, can put up numbers like that. A bolt-on 4.6 isn't touching that, so a situation w/ good driver versus good driver shouldn't come out the way your are making it to be. But I don't know, anything can happen. Maybe that's how the LS1 cars run up there where your at? Down here in California it's a different story.
    Colorado/Cali, both cars suffer from altitude and both cars thrive at Sea level. BTW, my friends SS is a 400+rwhp car, so I know what they can do when you mod them. From what you guys are saying, my car is about 8 to 9 tenths slower than you. That means with Intake and tune 4.10's, tires, and cats, I should be about the same as a stock LS1. I would seriously spank a stock one.
    It would take an LS1 with most of the bolt ons to really pull on me hard, but with what some of you have? No. My friend Tommy's brother ran 13.6 @ sea level with his auto. Get an M5 down there and they should run 13.3's or 13.2's. I'm talking about someone who can handle their car BTW. I believe LS1's can achieve 12's every once in awhile, but usually 13.1-3's or so???? I don't think 12's are the norm. LS2's, they are more common, I think????
    Last edited by Camarofan; 06-26-2008 at 06:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camarofan View Post
    I was waiting for the BS flag, lol. The guy in the GTO didn't believe I wasn't blown or spraying. The Goats don't weigh 3200 lbs BTW, if that's what you were speaking about and the LS2 Cts-V's are 3550 or so.

    Against the LS2.

    Here's the one this year

    And here's the one Last summer

    Both were puzzled when I told them I wasn't modded more than I am.

    And according to what I hear, my mods should make me about even with the LS2 or 1.

    I did talk to a guy that had an A4 Camaro with 4.10's Intake and exhaust and that thing pulled like a mother!! LoL, I almost didn't believe he wasn't doing a shot himself. He beat me by 2 cars or so and I out launched him. This was before I opened my exhaust like he did. Now, with my high flows, my times are where he was and even 2 tenths quicker, but I haven't seen him. I hope to run into him at the track so we can run em. He was cool.
    No I thought you were talking about LS2 vettes not goats or CTSV's. From my understanding those are pretty heavy cars so they're not going to be as quick obviously.

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