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Guestimate 1/4 mile?

This is a discussion on Guestimate 1/4 mile? within the LT1 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Anyone guesstimate a 1/4 for me? i cant bring it to the track yet but i'm curious as to what ...

  1. #1

    Guestimate 1/4 mile?

    Anyone guesstimate a 1/4 for me? i cant bring it to the track yet but i'm curious as to what to expect once i get the tune back in it and all up and ready since i have all the new mods in finally. ill just copy paste my mod list:

    *************************************************
    *************************************************
    ****************Vehicle Info*********************
    *************************************************
    *************************************************

    1996 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am
    5.7L "LT1" V8
    6 Speed manual transmission
    Rear Wheel Drive
    Burnt Red Metallic

    *************************************************
    *************************************************
    ****************Modifications********************
    *************************************************
    *************************************************

    Engine:
    *************************************************
    LT4 Heavy Duty timing chain set
    Ram Clutches billet aluminum flywheel w/APR bolts
    -Aprox. 18 lbs, stock aprox. 20 lbs
    Hypertech 160 degree thermostat
    Impala head gasket .028" (stock was .039")

    *************************************************
    Heads:
    *************************************************
    Llyod Elliot "LE2" package
    56cc
    Ferrea 200/1.56 Valves
    CM Retainers and 10' locks
    Comp Bee Hive Springs
    205cc Intake Port
    Tested flow data for actual units:
    .2 142/110
    .3 193/141
    .4 237/174
    .5 268/186
    .6 274/195
    .650 275/198

    *************************************************
    Cam:
    *************************************************
    Llyod Elliot "LE1" package
    -valve adjust - hyd
    -gross lift .538in/.531exh
    -duration@ .006 tappet lift 274/276
    -valve timing at .050 open int 4 closed btdc 40 abdc
    -.....................open exh 40 closed bbdc 4 atdc
    -specs at 108.0 intake center line
    -dur@.050 224/224
    -lobe lift .3590 .3540
    -lobe sep 108.0
    Comp 1305-16 rockers 1.6 Ratio
    Comp 7939-16 pushrods
    -shortened for new head gasket 7.150" length
    7/16 studs
    GM 14011051 guide plates

    *************************************************
    Electronics:
    *************************************************
    Programming by PCMForLess mail order tune
    LT4 knock modual installed
    MSD Optispark with +/-5 degree adjustable knob
    *MSD Blaster Coil
    *MSD 6AL ignition
    Taylor 8mm wires


    *************************************************
    Intake
    *************************************************
    Suncoast Creations Ram air box w/resonnator delete
    Descreened MAF
    Holly 58mm throttlebody
    Ported Manifold
    -Thottlebody/gasket ports opened to 58mm

    *************************************************
    Injectors:
    *************************************************
    Delphi/Lucas 37# High Impedence Fuel Injectors
    -Static Flow Rate: 37.27 lb/hr @ 43.5PSI
    -Static Flow Rate: 43.04 lb/hr @ 58.0PSI
    -Dynamic Flow Rate: 8.42 gm/pulse - 2.5ms pulse width and 10ms repetition rate @ 43.5PSI
    -Coil Resistance: 15.9 Ohms / High Impedance / High-Z (No ECM driver modifications required)

    *************************************************
    Exhuast:
    *************************************************
    SLP Headers
    -1 3/4" O.D. primary tube size
    -Retains factory AIR and Emissions equipment
    Randomtech dual cat hiflow ypipe
    Borla 3" adjustable catback system running wide open

    *************************************************
    Body/Suspension:
    *************************************************
    BMR strut tower brace
    BMR torque arm
    SLP Rear Differential Gear Swap: 4.10 ratio
    Corvette ZR1 replica wheels:
    -Rear wheels 17 x 11 50mm
    -Front wheels 17 x 9.5 56mm
    -Bolt pattern 5 lug 4.75
    -Rear tires Sumitomo 315 35 17 htrz
    -Front tires Sumitomo 275 40 17 htrz
    Rear seat delete kit

  2. #2
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    White with Black Stripe
    1995 Trans Am

    low 12s? maybe high 11s

    Don't take my word on that I'm really not sure but it's just a guess

  3. #3
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Weather, driver, and track conditions will make or break any car's 1/4 mile time. Honestly, first time out, I think you'll run high 12s.

  4. #4
    yea ive never been on the track so im used to rolling on slow in 1st and goin east in second to keep it sane on the street... think its worth 11's with an experienced driver at the wheel? tracks here are near sealevel but couldnt tell ya the exact altitude

  5. #5
    M6 King Hot Black Trans-Am's Avatar
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    09 EclipseGT 75 Chevy 4x4
    2001 Trans-Am 13 F-XT

    I'm guessing 16's. You'll either spin the whole way or blow up the rear.





    If the rear stays in one piece and you get some traction I say 12.34 Put DR's on and I'd bet a high 11.

  6. #6
    ive driven the road course at englishtown at a track near here a few times but never in my car, think its alot more fun then drivin in a stright line but eveyone seems to benchmark a cars ability by its 1/4 or dyno so im gettin curious to see what it cna do... thanks for the guestimates, im thinkin another month or so before i can afford a dyno tune and get some free time to get to a track

  7. #7
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Seat time is everything. With no strip experience, I would expect low 13s first time out. The car should have the power for an 11 second pass at englishtown in good weather, but it'll need to hook up.

  8. #8
    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    I think if you are good you could get an 11 flat out of that. that is a nice setup. I like hte le2 heads you got. wanna trade for my stockers? huh? huh?

  9. #9
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    11 flat is pretty optimistic. Honestly none of us can put a time on it.

    Not knowing how much the car weighs and the kind of power it makes are 2 huge factors.

    You have the advantage of being at sea level out there in NJ and those tracks have a tendancy to bring out the best in a car.

    Your camshaft is quite tame by my standards with only 224 at .050.

    Should be a decent running car but to get any decent time out of it sticky tires will be required, which makes me squirm when 7.5 rearends are involved.
    Only way to know for sure would be to get the car down there and run it. Your MPH will be the real indicator as to what the car is capable of.

  10. #10
    yea i;m runnin the emission friendly cam for the momment... nj's killer with inspection, maybe this summer ill switch it over when i get my next 2 year sticker. i have stock bottom end also and the le2 cam didnt make peak until over 6200, i didnt want to do that to my 96 lt1! i cant afford a stroker kit yet so ill have to make do with the bottom end as is for now. figured better safe then sorry!

  11. #11
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Thats understandable. Should still be a great running car thats fun to drive. Anyone put a sharp tune on it yet???

    Can you register the car as collectable or something and get yourself a cheap beater???? There has to be a way around that emissions stuff,,,,I know you guys have some fast street cars up there in Jersey that aren't emissions compliant.

  12. #12
    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    11 flat is pretty optimistic. Honestly none of us can put a time on it.

    Not knowing how much the car weighs and the kind of power it makes are 2 huge factors.

    You have the advantage of being at sea level out there in NJ and those tracks have a tendancy to bring out the best in a car.

    Your camshaft is quite tame by my standards with only 224 at .050.

    Should be a decent running car but to get any decent time out of it sticky tires will be required, which makes me squirm when 7.5 rearends are involved.
    Only way to know for sure would be to get the car down there and run it. Your MPH will be the real indicator as to what the car is capable of.
    I say 11 flat just because I have seen le1's put down 11.4 without any trouble at all. I think that 11 flat would be extremely doable.

  13. #13
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    I say 11 flat just because I have seen le1's put down 11.4 without any trouble at all. I think that 11 flat would be extremely doable.


    Please show me where an LE1 (NA I assume, stock shortblock) 6 speed car went 11 flat.

  14. #14
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    I say 11 flat just because I have seen le1's put down 11.4 without any trouble at all. I think that 11 flat would be extremely doable.
    I'd like to see that. Quite honestly though, with that tame camshaft for the LE1 package, which also includes a mild head package,,,,an LT1 (only 350 cubic inches) wouldn't make enough power to run 11.40's unless the car weighed about 2,500 lbs with a driver,,,,

    I made an honest 638 HP at the flywheel in a 4,108 lbs. car and only ran 11.40's at 118 mph. Car has a little more in it but as you can see it takes quite a bit of HP to propel a full weight car like that. Granted if I could loose about 500 lbs. which would put the car at a more typical street car weight,,,it would be a legit high ten second car.

    Anyway point being, a 3,500 lbs. street car would need roughly 550 HP at the crank to run mid 11's. I don't see the mild LE1 package making anywhere close to that.

    There may have been more to the car than was lead on to be,,,,alot of us do that ya know

  15. #15
    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'd like to see that. Quite honestly though, with that tame camshaft for the LE1 package, which also includes a mild head package,,,,an LT1 (only 350 cubic inches) wouldn't make enough power to run 11.40's unless the car weighed about 2,500 lbs with a driver,,,,

    I made an honest 638 HP at the flywheel in a 4,108 lbs. car and only ran 11.40's at 118 mph. Car has a little more in it but as you can see it takes quite a bit of HP to propel a full weight car like that. Granted if I could loose about 500 lbs. which would put the car at a more typical street car weight,,,it would be a legit high ten second car.

    Anyway point being, a 3,500 lbs. street car would need roughly 550 HP at the crank to run mid 11's. I don't see the mild LE1 package making anywhere close to that.

    There may have been more to the car than was lead on to be,,,,alot of us do that ya know
    the person I know that did it I know had 3.73 gears (a4), a 3600 stall, drag radials with skinnies in the front, slightly different valve train (cost him like 200 more total) and used the le1 heads and cam. I know that he dyno'd 380rwhp even with the big stall and could pull a skinny off the ground on a hard launch. he didn't use nitrous or anything, he just had the car set up like most people who put the money into it would do it. I run 8.4 on dr's in the 1/8 at 86mph. I know for a fact he would stomp me any day of the week. it doesn't take that much power to go fast down the track. with proper setup you can make the le1 a sick package. you just have to put the money into it. I have never seen it run in the 1/4 but I have seen the time slips. when he runs in the 1/8th it is sick. 7.8 without problems.

  16. #16
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    the person I know that did it I know had 3.73 gears (a4), a 3600 stall, drag radials with skinnies in the front, slightly different valve train (cost him like 200 more total) and used the le1 heads and cam. I know that he dyno'd 380rwhp even with the big stall and could pull a skinny off the ground on a hard launch. he didn't use nitrous or anything, he just had the car set up like most people who put the money into it would do it. I run 8.4 on dr's in the 1/8 at 86mph. I know for a fact he would stomp me any day of the week. it doesn't take that much power to go fast down the track. with proper setup you can make the le1 a sick package. you just have to put the money into it. I have never seen it run in the 1/4 but I have seen the time slips. when he runs in the 1/8th it is sick. 7.8 without problems.
    Ok, so you havent seen it run an 11 flat then? Also, we're talking about a 6 speed car here, that isnt going to leave the hole like a big stalled auto with gears on slicks and skinnies. What is the weight of that car, with driver?

    And what mods do you have to be trapping 86 in the 1/8th? Thats about 111mph give or take in the 1/4.

  17. #17
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya, guessing what a car will do and then actually running the number are 2 very different things. It's just not that easy and generally takes much more than a simple package for a naturally aspirated engine. Especially talking about a small 350 in a full weight car going 11 flat.

    It can be done,,,but not with a 224 at .050 camshaft, stock shortblock, compression etc...

    Not knocking anyones car here, but I don't want to get the original posters hopes up thinking his car is going to tickle the 10 second zone with what is a very mild package with an emmissions friendly camshaft.

    As I said,,,a typical 3,500 lbs. car would need about (roughly) 550 HP at the crank to crack off mid 11 second timeslips,,,,given good air and a decent track. Or for you chassis dyno guys thats about 450 hp to the wheels give or take for obvious reasons I won't get into here.

    Very hard to do with just 350 ci.

    For a Gen II 350 to make that kind of power would take a great set of heads,,,and a camshaft with duration numbers of 25x at .050 and .600 lift or more to take advantage of that etc....alot of rpm and alot of gear,,,,then of course a car setup to use it well.

    Can a stock stroke LT1 do that???? Sure,,,There is one around here that I know of still running 355 ci,,,,but it's far from mild and borders that fine line of driving daily. It's not tame by any means.

  18. #18
    yea i went with the le2 heads in plans for the future, but didnt want to strain the bottom end with the le2 cam.

    yea some people have some very nasty cars here that get inspection stickers from friends or they know people at garages that do private inspection and all... i just cant afford to fail for somethin stupid and have to pay to get it fixed then revert back again. with a block up plate in the borla it just looks like i have wheels and a catback, its pretty quiet closed up. problem is right now i have some bad cats, they sucked up some water this summer in a flood and cracked, so it smeels like hell and its running rich as shit cause the tunes gone... but hopefully i can get the highflow ypipe installed before inspection, as long as i pass the obd2 scan (which i always do) they usually dont stick the pipe in the rear... buuuuut if the guy feels like it or second guesses the car, he can stick the pipe in the tail and with a real cam, fail ya for emissions... then what do i do

    im not hoping for high speeds i know its not a rocket, i fuckin love it though and it sure beats the hell out of most things i come across, especially for being 12 years old and costing me $12k 5 years ago when people are dumping $35k into a car and not going nearly as fast or in a good a lookin or nicer sounding beast i was just wondering what it had the potential to do. i did alot of talking with lloyd awhile back and he guesstimated that with my mods and what his other customers have seen was around 390-410 wheel hp's but he wasnt sure cuase he hasnt seen many people run the le1 cam on le2 heads like me!

    i have a motorcycle so in about 4 weeks when i gradute i can just take the bike out and ill have some free time for the turn around i need to get the ypipe installed and get a real tune. scan the car now it comes up as a buick aztec or some shit no lie! different vin and everything! pcmforless doesnt tune your computer, they tune someone elses turn in unit and send it back! mine lost its info and went back to whatever it was originally and/or he fucked it up to begin with.

  19. #19
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Cool,,,goodluck with the emissions test,,,,I've never had to do that.

    Take it to the track and have some fun with it. Let us know how it turns out for ya. Should be a great running car.
    Nice to see a good running LT1 at the track,,,,they seem to be considered such underdogs from the majority since LSx motors have all the attention right now.
    The LT1 still does pretty well for itself though. My wife loves hers. Although it's stock,,,,I can still give a few 5.0 and 4.6 litre GT mustangs fits now and then.

  20. #20
    LTX N20LT4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    the person I know that did it I know had 3.73 gears (a4), a 3600 stall, drag radials with skinnies in the front, slightly different valve train (cost him like 200 more total) and used the le1 heads and cam. I know that he dyno'd 380rwhp even with the big stall and could pull a skinny off the ground on a hard launch. he didn't use nitrous or anything, he just had the car set up like most people who put the money into it would do it. I run 8.4 on dr's in the 1/8 at 86mph. I know for a fact he would stomp me any day of the week. it doesn't take that much power to go fast down the track. with proper setup you can make the le1 a sick package. you just have to put the money into it. I have never seen it run in the 1/4 but I have seen the time slips. when he runs in the 1/8th it is sick. 7.8 without problems.
    11-flat is very quick for an LE1, however i've known two cars (one in which I witnessed) that wen't high 11's with the LE1 package. The car I witness was my tuners (Keith @ FFP) '97 Formula which went 11.8 and dyno'd right at 390-rwhp, all while passing California emissions. It was an A4 car. After seeing that I planned to do the LE1 kit myself, but decided to go another route.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    ...450 hp to the wheels...
    Very hard to do with just 350 ci.

    For a Gen II 350 to make that kind of power would take a great set of heads,,,and a camshaft with duration numbers of 25x at .050 and .600 lift or more to take advantage of that etc....alot of rpm and alot of gear,,,,then of course a car setup to use it well.

    Can a stock stroke LT1 do that???? Sure,,,There is one around here that I know of still running 355 ci,,,,but it's far from mild and borders that fine line of driving daily. It's not tame by any means.
    Check out http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiPerfLT1.html LT1 results. There are several stock-stroke cars rated at 450rwhp or more, including Alek's '97 SS M6, which made 480rwhp on a N/A 355 with A/C, power steering, and even subs out back. He has multiple videos driving the car around very smoothly; idle, manners, stop and go traffic and all. He's been running the car for a while very successfully. It's not common, but it can be done.
    Last edited by N20LT4; 04-23-2008 at 06:10 PM.
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