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a couple performance questions

This is a discussion on a couple performance questions within the LT1 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I was looking at the le1 package for my car and it looked like a great setup, because it meets ...

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    a couple performance questions

    I was looking at the le1 package for my car and it looked like a great setup, because it meets my goals by itself.

    I also was looking at taking my heads to a local shop and getting some work done with them there. I was gonna get the heads ported, over-sized valves, 3 angle valve job, and is there anything else i would want? I was gonna replace my valve guides with some nice bronze ones and then some bee hives on top. this sound like a good setup for it?

    edelbrock intake manifold. any experiences? is it worth the money?

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    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    I'll never put beehive springs in anything I own. Not after seeing the pictures people took of them after they broke. Lots of nice little pieces of valve spring that could go into all kind of interesting places in your motor. Lots of other great springs out there. Might soak up a few more hp, but I'll take the reliability any day.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I've broken the regular springs too,,,and they can make small pieces as well that get in interesting places. It's a crapshoot with either spring really, and depends on proper setup for each particular combination more than anything else. If it's that bothersome I would epoxy screen in the oil return holes.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 02-27-2008 at 08:00 AM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Jimmy you didn't mention a cam swap, but I guess thats in the works too????

    I have no experience with the Edelbrock LT1 intake but I'm familiar with it. 2 designs, both air gap, one is for the LT1 style heads and the other is cast for the LT4 raised intake ports. Sounds like a good intake on paper but I haven't seen any dyno comparisons as to how it performs.
    Doesn't seem many are building the LT1's as much. But I give Edelbrock kudos for stepping up to the plate and making something for the LT1 that no one else seemed to want to do. I hope they keep it up.

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    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    If it's that bothersome I would epoxy screen in the oil return holes.

    those screens are a good idea in any motor. they can really save you if you have a valvetrain failure.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    those screens are a good idea in any motor. they can really save you if you have a valvetrain failure.
    Yep,,,I recently broke (10 out of 16) springs in a set of BBC AFR heads, thanks to AFR. I had crap everywhere,,,Ugh!

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    Senior Member Sleeper101's Avatar
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    You better get a price on those heads being re-worked, My guy at the machine shop quoted me 1,000$ for re-worked heads, Ported polished,intake and exhaust, New valves, Re-seated, Flow tested, ETC.

    Might be better off in a new set of aftermarket Eldebrocks!

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I was wondering what his thoughts were on that myself. My experience completely rebuilding cylinder heads have never been cheap.

    Years back it was all we had to do. But with todays aftermarket heads everywhere, it's no longer cost effective to rebuild old heads.

    The only time I ever go through a set of original heads is when it's a numbers matching setup that needs to stay that way, generally 40 year old muscle cars. Another instance would be NHRA stock and super stock class racing where the rules dictate original casting numbers.

    Otherwise like Sleeper stated,,,going with aftermarket brand new castings is 9 times out of 10 the better way to go, both cost wise and even performance in some cases.

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    well when I was looking into it the edelbrock heads, but they don't produce near the power of getting the lt1 heads sent off to have the le1 or le2 head work done on thm. I would be putting in a new can with them too. with that package and full bolt ons I would be making 370-390whp. factory it only makes 250at the wheels. 285 at the crank. so that would be a huge gain. the edelbrock was only know to produce 40 more hp at the wheels.

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    Senior Member Sleeper101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    well when I was looking into it the edelbrock heads, but they don't produce near the power of getting the lt1 heads sent off to have the le1 or le2 head work done on thm. I would be putting in a new can with them too. with that package and full bolt ons I would be making 370-390whp. factory it only makes 250at the wheels. 285 at the crank. so that would be a huge gain. the edelbrock was only know to produce 40 more hp at the wheels.
    Eldebrock 40WHP with heads only?

    You can gain up to 80 with just a cam. So add that with the heads.

    Im not sure of the flow charts, I havent looked at them.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya Lloyd Elliot ports a pretty good LT1 head.
    There are other LT1 heads though rather than just Edelbrocks to compare to. Hard to compare a ported head to an "as cast" head though,,,not quite the same.
    The only experience I really have personally with Edelbrocks is a pontiac 455 engine I recently built for my father. Since they were the only aluminum head available for a pontiac for the longest time,,,,you don't have alot of choices..........They are okay out of the box but we had Kaufman CNC port these heads to produce 330 cfm on the intake side and a decent E/I ratio.
    They performed rather well and made just over 600 HP at the crank. Out of the box they wouldn't have been close to that.

    Anyway, sounds like you are on the way to a nice LT1 package.

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper101 View Post
    Eldebrock 40WHP with heads only?

    You can gain up to 80 with just a cam. So add that with the heads.

    Im not sure of the flow charts, I havent looked at them.
    80? you don't know what you are talking about then. look it up on on popularhotrodding.com

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...edelbrock.html

    they only got 46whp from new edelbrock heads, cam, and throttle body. they don't have that great of flow chart either. at .500, they have a 242 flow rate. that is slow by aftermarket standards. and especially at 1100 a set.
    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...der_heads.html
    through research I learned that the best setup for the money would be the le1 package. I have read that with the heads alon you can produce 340whp with bolt-ons. with the cam you can produce 370- 390 without problems. the budget setup is good for 335whp without cam and again at least 350-370 with the cam. the le1 is a great setup.
    http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    80? you don't know what you are talking about then. look it up on on popularhotrodding.com

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...edelbrock.html

    they only got 46whp from new edelbrock heads, cam, and throttle body. they don't have that great of flow chart either. at .500, they have a 242 flow rate. that is slow by aftermarket standards. and especially at 1100 a set.
    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...der_heads.html
    through research I learned that the best setup for the money would be the le1 package. I have read that with the heads alon you can produce 340whp with bolt-ons. with the cam you can produce 370- 390 without problems. the budget setup is good for 335whp without cam and again at least 350-370 with the cam. the le1 is a great setup.
    http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
    Which Edelbrock LT1 head are you looking at??? They make 2 sets. The first being the standard LT1 head which I'm betting is where everyone is getting their flow numbers from.

    The other set they make are copied from the LT4 design with raised intake runners,,,and requires their new LT4 air gap intake which only recently became available. I'm willing to bet this setup would show substantial gains over their original LT1 design. Should make a nice package for a street car.

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    Senior Member Sleeper101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    80? you don't know what you are talking about then. look it up on on popularhotrodding.com

    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...edelbrock.html

    they only got 46whp from new edelbrock heads, cam, and throttle body. they don't have that great of flow chart either. at .500, they have a 242 flow rate. that is slow by aftermarket standards. and especially at 1100 a set.
    http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...der_heads.html
    through research I learned that the best setup for the money would be the le1 package. I have read that with the heads alon you can produce 340whp with bolt-ons. with the cam you can produce 370- 390 without problems. the budget setup is good for 335whp without cam and again at least 350-370 with the cam. the le1 is a great setup.
    http://www.eportworks.com/lt1.html
    Im not talking bout 80 HP from the heads, I was saying head/cam combo!

    Plus I only go from what I have personally seen. Not numbers most post online! people like to stretch numbers online. Your best bet is to find a quality machine shop and discuss a setup you will like.

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeper101 View Post
    Im not talking bout 80 HP from the heads, I was saying head/cam combo!

    Plus I only go from what I have personally seen. Not numbers most post online! people like to stretch numbers online. Your best bet is to find a quality machine shop and discuss a setup you will like.
    from the people I have talked to the le1 package really is worth that much. supposedly it's the best combo for the lt1

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    I just looked up the lt4 edelbrock package and it is woth more, but it is not worth more for the money. it would cost me 2300 to get that package and all the parts required to make it work for my car. the le1 is still looking better to me.

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    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    from the people I have talked to the le1 package really is worth that much. supposedly it's the best combo for the lt1
    The LE package may be a good combo for the money, but there are much better LT1 heads out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybling31 View Post
    .......edelbrock intake manifold......is it worth the money?
    No.......it's not $400+ better than the stock intake.

    Actually, according to an engine builder I know who has used an Edelbrock on an engine dyno, it's not significantly better than the stock intake in any measurable way.

    KW

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    The LE package may be a good combo for the money, but there are much better LT1 heads out there.
    I meant to put for the money in there. I was tired. lol.

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    let the F-Bodies roll jimmybling31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KW Baraka View Post
    No.......it's not $400+ better than the stock intake.

    Actually, according to an engine builder I know who has used an Edelbrock on an engine dyno, it's not significantly better than the stock intake in any measurable way.

    KW
    ok. I was wanting to know that.

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