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back to the drawing board- still not running right

This is a discussion on back to the drawing board- still not running right within the LT1 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Pulled plugs 2, 4 and 6 last night. All 3 of them were wet with fuel and blacker than toby's ...

  1. #41
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    2005 Ram
    1978 Firebird

    Pulled plugs 2, 4 and 6 last night. All 3 of them were wet with fuel and blacker than toby's ass with soot. Where the electrode comes out of the ceramic was a slight white ring only around the metal, but the rest was coated in black soot with fuel near the thread-area.


    What in the hell is causing this thing to run this rich? Could it be timing? What controls timing on this car?

  2. #42
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    '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban

    Heck if I know... does it run off a sensor in or behind the opti?

    We have a small group heading to Chilson-Wilcox this evening. They have a care package put together for me so I can do a coolant, hose and thermostat change in our Stratus some time.

  3. #43
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    Got the rest of the plugs back in and it fired right up, running smooth as a champ, but fast. Let it run a bit and it started running shitty again as the engine temps climbed. The car was running HOT, im guessing i dont have the air out of the system (how the fuck do you bleed this thing!) and I was able to get some numbers written down from the code scanners monitors. I was going to get video, but my mom took her digital cam with her on the motorcycle, and mine doesn't support video. Anyhow, i shut the car down once it reached 230*ish, and it would NOT restart. It would eventually fire, run around 500rpms, very rough, and stall right away.

    I suspect a new culprit, even though it tested out OKAY. The ICM. Its mounted directly to the head, and I have read in the past that some people have had issues with the ICM getting hot from engine heat and failing, but only at warmer temps. This would explain hot-start problems, wouldn't it? I'm really at my wits end and i'm ready to burn this fuckin' car to the ground and walk away.

    Here's the numbers I got from the scanner, which is an Actron Autoscanner Plus model CP9180.

    ABSLT TPS % 0.0
    Engine RPM 1750
    Calc Load % 7.0
    MAF Flow GR/SE 17.30
    MAP KpA 31
    Coolant *F -37 (still confuses the hell out of me)
    IAT *F 100 (underhood was getting very hot)
    IGN Advance DE 45.0 (what does this mean?)
    Second Air Atmos
    stftrm1 % 0
    ltftrm1 % 0
    stftrm2 % 0
    ltftrm2 % 0
    Vehicle Speed 0
    fuel system 1 OPEN
    Fuel system 2 OPEN
    o2s11 V .96
    o2s12 V .965
    o2s21 V .95
    o2s22 V .925
    stftrm11% 0
    stftrm22% 0

    Now, here's the interesting one. After the engine was hot, and i turned it off, but left the key ON. here's the readings the came back a bit screwy.

    o2s11 V .975
    o2s12 V 1.025
    o2s21 V .825
    o2s22 V .965
    MAP KpA 99
    coolant *F -40
    IAT *F 125 (again, underhood was hot)

  4. #44
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    By chance did you use thread tape or sealant on the new coolant temp sender? Were the threads corroded in the block/head/stat housing (whichever applies)? That can mess with the readings -- I am having the same issue on the Vette, it's reading about 60 degrees too cool on the gauge.

  5. #45
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    Well, the LT1 has 2 temp senders. One in the block between cyls 1 and 3, and one in the water pump housing. The one in the block is a one-wire sensor that sends the signal to the gauge, and the one in the pump is a two-wire sensor that sends the temp reading to the PCM. I did put some thread sealant on the threads of the sensor in the water pump when I changed it out with a new one, but only a minimal amount. The old sensor was in good shape visually, however upon removal i did notice a tiny bit of rust on one prong of the electrical connector. Perhaps I should pop off my connector and check that out as well, I never even gave that a thought.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zapper2003 View Post
    Well, the LT1 has 2 temp senders. One in the block between cyls 1 and 3, and one in the water pump housing. The one in the block is a one-wire sensor that sends the signal to the gauge, and the one in the pump is a two-wire sensor that sends the temp reading to the PCM. I did put some thread sealant on the threads of the sensor in the water pump when I changed it out with a new one, but only a minimal amount. The old sensor was in good shape visually, however upon removal i did notice a tiny bit of rust on one prong of the electrical connector. Perhaps I should pop off my connector and check that out as well, I never even gave that a thought.

    Easy way to check it is to zero out your ohm meter and take a reading with one prong on your negative battery terminal and one prong on the housing (not the terminal) of your temp sender. If the result is a higher ohm reading you may have excess resistance due to the sealant or rust. You can also compare the reading to a bare spot or clean bolt on the block or head and the negative terminal.

    I just checked mine a few minutes ago in the Corvette -- thinking that may be the problem, but it reads the same so my sender ground is good. Must just have a bad or mis-matched sender in my case. The Autozone boys looked up the part for me. I just can't believe they would sell me the wrong part!

  7. #47
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    2005 Ram
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    Fuel pressure key on engine off is 42psi. Engine running its 38.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zapper2003 View Post
    Fuel pressure key on engine off is 42psi. Engine running its 38.

    Within spec?

  9. #49
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    yup. 41-47 KOEO and drop 3-10 when running. I'll be stopping by later to give you back the tester.

  10. #50
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    Looks like something is up with the coolant temp sensor for the pcm. That is what is making it overheat also, the pcm thinks the car is cold and won't turn on the fans.

  11. #51
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    This is a new sensor. Not that it means that its a GOOD sensor. I will pull some strings and get it replaced under warranty, try another new sensor and see if that rectifys anything, then i'll start looking into a search for broken/chaffed wires.

  12. #52
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    back from the dead! (this thread..not the car)


    Got the plug changed on the coolant temp sensor and it now reads fine, which has cleared up a few issues, however... Now i've got igniton and fueling issues. Here's the readout from the code scanner.

    Ign. Advance DE (varies between..) 29-34
    ST FT 1: -3.4 to -4.6
    LT FT 1: -1.0
    ST FT 2: 0.0
    LT FT 2: 0.0
    MAP KpA: 30
    MAF Flow: 15.6-16.2 (@ 1600rpms)
    Fuel Systems 1+2: closed loop
    Secondary Air system: atmoshpere (engine hot)
    ST FT 11: -4.6
    ST FT 21: 0


    If you go back to some of my earlier posts, my advance was up in the 45 range, and fuel trims were all at 0.

    What is causing the trims to advance/retard themselves?

    The motor is still idling funny and fast, has a miss/burble to it at low idle (1200 rpms cold) and stays even at high idle (1600rpms hot). Also, the motor is running VERY hot, like in excess of 230* hot (on he gauge) (222* on the scanner). I can deal with that later if it is a cooling issue, but I'd sooner blame it on th fast idle and funky running conditions.

  13. #53
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    I always bleed the cooling system with my car on ramps. You have to make sure that the radiator is the highest point in the cooling system. Have you checked the IAC? I would clean it just to be sure. Timing can only be blamed on one of two things, the opti or a faulty PCM.

  14. #54
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    i did clean the IAC valve, and I'm going to just replace it because I think it might've broke or I might've fucked it up. Even if it's not the problem, at least I'll know its not.

  15. #55
    Giant Dicks Car Club Zapper2003's Avatar
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    I'm also going to pull plugs on the drivers side and look for signs of a fouled plug.

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