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WS6 vs non

This is a discussion on WS6 vs non within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by 9T8W66 Not that I am discounting your findings here but E.T. is only part of the story. ...

  1. #21
    Junior Member n.m.racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9T8W66 View Post
    Not that I am discounting your findings here but E.T. is only part of the story.
    If the Ram Air Hood was actually working then the MPH would have increased aswell. Unfortunetely you haven't listed the mph for either run.

    And it is proven many times on this board (and others) that the `98-up WS6's Ram Air hood and lower Airbox add little no power. The only thing I will admit that it does is help provide cooler air to the intake. BUT if you remove the baffles and seal the hood to the box creating a true ram air system you might gain 3 HP at 100+ mph.

    BTW guys the `99-04 Grand Am GT's all have Ram Air and it only added an advertised 5 HP 175 HP vs the standard cars 170.
    It did add top speed, my 60 ft. were identical, like low 2 seconds, Id have to find my slips and my 1/8th mile was very close. Im not saying my hood is the coolest thing to do to mod your car, but the original question of this post is the difference between ws6's and non's.

    The 13.8 run trapped best at 99-100 mph
    The 13.6 run trapped at 104 and 105 mph

    Plus with you really cant modify a non ws6 hood with a nice intake as well as you could benefit from the extra room for more filter area like the volant in the ws6 hood.

    Im not positive about the gear ratio but I think the M6 were available with 3.43 and the highest A4's could get is 3.23, regardless of the WS6 package but I may be wrong. I know I have the lower ratio which is 2.73s...? Not for sure... gear ratios in the birds get me confused

    But IMO The ws6 would beat a base ws9 every 2 out of 3 cases.. all depending on the options installed on the car, driver, track conditions, year, and a number of things. Plus the WS6 hood shaved like 5 pounds over that metal hood. Thats how I got my 2 tenths haha

  2. #22
    Firebird Encyclopedia 9T8W66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by n.m.racer View Post
    It did add top speed, my 60 ft. were identical, like low 2 seconds, Id have to find my slips and my 1/8th mile was very close. Im not saying my hood is the coolest thing to do to mod your car, but the original question of this post is the difference between ws6's and non's.

    The 13.8 run trapped best at 99-100 mph
    The 13.6 run trapped at 104 and 105 mph

    Plus with you really cant modify a non ws6 hood with a nice intake as well as you could benefit from the extra room for more filter area like the volant in the ws6 hood.

    Im not positive about the gear ratio but I think the M6 were available with 3.43 and the highest A4's could get is 3.23, regardless of the WS6 package but I may be wrong. I know I have the lower ratio which is 2.73s...? Not for sure... gear ratios in the birds get me confused

    But IMO The ws6 would beat a base ws9 every 2 out of 3 cases.. all depending on the options installed on the car, driver, track conditions, year, and a number of things. Plus the WS6 hood shaved like 5 pounds over that metal hood. Thats how I got my 2 tenths haha
    Interesting, that the 13.8 run has a low trap speed.
    100mph is below normal even for an A4
    The 13.6 run looks better though.

    Non WS6 cars can benefit from the FRA, SLP CAI, FTRA, or SSRA.
    All systems proven to reduce track times usually by .2 amd 2 mph

    All M6's are 3.42
    All WS6 Auto's had mandatory extra cost 3.23 gear set.
    WS6 hood is 12 lbs lighter then the steel hood but the 17x9" wheels are 2 lbs heavier each then the 16's
    Bottom line is that the WS6 has no clear advantage except in the aggressive looks dept.

    As for a non vs WS6 in a race, as stated before it could go either way.
    LS1 is an LS1 race outcomes are all in the driver
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  3. #23
    Junior Member n.m.racer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9T8W66 View Post
    Interesting, that the 13.8 run has a low trap speed.
    100mph is below normal even for an A4
    The 13.6 run looks better though.

    Non WS6 cars can benefit from the FRA, SLP CAI, FTRA, or SSRA.
    All systems proven to reduce track times usually by .2 amd 2 mph

    All M6's are 3.42
    All WS6 Auto's had mandatory extra cost 3.23 gear set.
    WS6 hood is 12 lbs lighter then the steel hood but the 17x9" wheels are 2 lbs heavier each then the 16's
    Bottom line is that the WS6 has no clear advantage except in the aggressive looks dept.

    As for a non vs WS6 in a race, as stated before it could go either way.
    LS1 is an LS1 race outcomes are all in the driver
    Yea the 13.8 run did seem real low but keep in mind the 160k on mileage. Im guessing a little wear on valve springs maybe.... but it definately seemed like to big of a jump by 5mph... I tried to think of several things it could be but everything was too similar that day?

    I understand slp CAI but what is FRA, FTRA, and SSRA?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by n.m.racer View Post
    Yea the 13.8 run did seem real low but keep in mind the 160k on mileage. Im guessing a little wear on valve springs maybe.... but it definately seemed like to big of a jump by 5mph... I tried to think of several things it could be but everything was too similar that day?

    I understand slp CAI but what is FRA, FTRA, and SSRA?
    FRA Free Ram Air http://www.fbody.com/tech/details.cgi?id=54
    FTRA Fast Toys Ram Air http://fasttoys.net/shop/product_inf...products_id=28
    SSRA Super Sucker Ram Air (basicaly the same as the FTRA)

    Also keep in mind that as your pushing the car each time it may progressively make more power because yor loosening things up and blowing the carbon out so to speak.
    I was at a Dyno Day yesterday and every car made more power on the second pull.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customta98 View Post
    The increse you had was more than likely from the cooler air comeing in not the ram air, let me explain the 1LE Trans Am hood dose not really breath too well and when you add the Ram Air hood it lets in cooler air from outside the engine bay hense it is like adding a cool air intake you can gain a littel bit of power but in no way dose it Ram Air into your engine that was all i was trying to explain. But thanx for posting that its nice to see the difference the hood can make.
    News flash: RPO 1LE on LS1 Formulas required RPO WS6, which includes the Ram-Air" hood. I believe you meant to say the non-WS6 hood instead of "the 1LE Trans Am hood" above.

    BOTH hoods/airboxes take air in from both the front and from below. Actually, the reason there is a downward opening in the radiator support is to allow water to spill out that gets driven in when driving in the rain. The ONLY difference between the non-WS6 and WS6 intake tracts is the WS6 airbox is raised to increase the size of the forward-facing opening (to allow more air), and the hood has the cool functional scoops that are more effective in scooping up cool outside air, especially at speed.

    True, in the 1/4 mile, and especially on a dyno, you won't see significant differences in HP, times or trap speeds w/ the WS6 hood/airbox (there's no significant airflow on a dyno). However above that ~100MPH region, the WS6 hood/airbox makes a BIG difference. PROOF? Checkout the 8/99 C&D shootout between a '99 SS, '99 WS6 and '99 Cobras, all manual trans 'verts. Even though the WS6 was heavier by 43 lbs, it matched the SS in 0-60 (both 5.3 sec) and 1/4-mi (13.9@103 for the SS vs 13.9@104 for the WS6, which indicate the engines were making very similar power), but the WS6 blew the SS away by nearly 2 seconds to 130 MPH (24.6 vs 22.8) and hit the speed limiter at 163 MPH while the SS topped out at 160 MPH. Same drivetrains, same day, same track, WS6 handicapped by 43 lbs, making similar power through the 1/4-mi and the Ram-Air prevailed above that. Yeah, the SS isn't the same as a non WS6 T/A, but I seriously doubt the intake tract on a non-WS6 T/A is better or more efficient at getting cold air to the engine than a SS.

    If you still don't believe a bigger opening to cool air from the front of the car helps, why don't you cover up your forward-facing opening w/ duct tape to keep all the water out?

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    Senior Member clg82's Avatar
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    I noticed a difference between the regular hood and a ram air aftermarket that I bought....But i think it was only because of the weight difference..... The aftermarket hood weighed at least 50-60 lbs less........
    2000 Arctic White trans am, ws6 hood, ws6 air box, slp lid, slp smooth bellows, slp loudmouth exhaust,shift kit, rebuilt trans, LS6 intake, 3.73 gears, Shaner S3 p/p throttle body, and a tune . SFC. C6 ZO6 rims 18" in back 17" in front. Drilled and slotted rotors.

  7. #27
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    My WS6 airbox doesnt look like that aftermarket SLP lid. Its taller than the TA and has a slot all the way across the top right behind the hood scoops. My 99 TA has an aftermarket box that seals directly to the aftermarket hood. No way it can get any air from under the car it all comes through the hood. Ive never dynoed either car or ran either at the track. But just driving them they both feel the same power wise. Dont really know how they would compare to the base TA.

  8. #28
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    My T/A is a WS6 and I think with modification it can make a difference. My filter sits in the nostrils and i have a rubber grommet that seals to the hose on TB. I have a stock engine with headers and I've beat c5 zo6 that have an ls6...idk but that seems like a good gain.
    Weird how I'm not sure what i said.....or if it helped any

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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDITO View Post
    My T/A is a WS6 and I think with modification it can make a difference. My filter sits in the nostrils and i have a rubber grommet that seals to the hose on TB. I have a stock engine with headers and I've beat c5 zo6 that have an ls6...idk but that seems like a good gain.
    Weird how I'm not sure what i said.....or if it helped any
    The c5 z06 driver couldnt drive his car. People have gotten into the high 11s @117mph in c5 z06s bone stock. Your car with those mods wont run high 11s or trap 117mph.

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    O-) Yeah maybe that guy did suck... I ran a 12.33. I don't think i can hit 11's. Yeah I also have rear gears at 3.73 and a torque converter...yeah. Is there a h&C package that can get me a good 200hp gain?

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    I have read numerous sources that stated that all 01 and 02 ls-1 firebirds and camaros got the ls-6 intake manifold. GM had an abundance of them and put them on those model years instead of the ls-1 intake. And yes, there was a small percentage of cars in those same model years that got ls-6 blocks too, but it is a b**** to tell. I tried looking at the numbers on my block and couldn't Identify them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotti54 View Post
    I have read numerous sources that stated that all 01 and 02 ls-1 firebirds and camaros got the ls-6 intake manifold. GM had an abundance of them and put them on those model years instead of the ls-1 intake. And yes, there was a small percentage of cars in those same model years that got ls-6 blocks too, but it is a b**** to tell. I tried looking at the numbers on my block and couldn't Identify them.
    Why does it matter if you got the ls6 or ls1 blocks? They are still both 5.7 liter alum blocks. The dimensions are the same. We all know the 01 nad 02 got the ls6 intake manifold which is an advantage but they also have the smaller cam compared to the other years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDITO View Post
    O-) Yeah maybe that guy did suck... I ran a 12.33. I don't think i can hit 11's. Yeah I also have rear gears at 3.73 and a torque converter...yeah. Is there a h&C package that can get me a good 200hp gain?
    12.33 is a good time for your mods, im sure you would beat alot of z06 drivers as some have problems gettign even that low.

  14. #34
    Member Firebirdformula's Avatar
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    the hose coming out of the slp lid isnt there.... mine has a hose can i take it out???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Why does it matter if you got the ls6 or ls1 blocks? They are still both 5.7 liter alum blocks. The dimensions are the same. We all know the 01 nad 02 got the ls6 intake manifold which is an advantage but they also have the smaller cam compared to the other years.
    Guess it doesn't really matter at all! I think that the ls6 block flows oil better if am not mistaken. Other than that, I don't really care either.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rotti54 View Post
    Guess it doesn't really matter at all! I think that the ls6 block flows oil better if am not mistaken. Other than that, I don't really care either.
    LS6 block has larger crankcase bay windows which reduces pumping loses at high rpm. And that's the only real difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    12.33 is a good time for your mods, im sure you would beat alot of z06 drivers as some have problems gettign even that low.
    WEll in a mag. I've read i heard that an ls1 c5 with stock motor got to 9's and a dude snake eater 98 or something had a bad ass t/a and i think it was mostly stock motor. I really dont know i just need a new tranny no lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDITO View Post
    WEll in a mag. I've read i heard that an ls1 c5 with stock motor got to 9's and a dude snake eater 98 or something had a bad ass t/a and i think it was mostly stock motor. I really dont know i just need a new tranny no lol
    Lol what

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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDITO View Post
    WEll in a mag. I've read i heard that an ls1 c5 with stock motor got to 9's and a dude snake eater 98 or something had a bad ass t/a and i think it was mostly stock motor. I really dont know i just need a new tranny no lol
    snake eater 98 used to post here... i think he posts on ls2 now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    snake eater 98 used to post here... i think he posts on ls2 now...
    by stock motor do you mean stock bottom end?

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