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WS6 horsepower numbers

This is a discussion on WS6 horsepower numbers within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by lemons12 as for the track... stock my 98 was outrunning PLENTY of 99 and up TAs and ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    as for the track... stock my 98 was outrunning PLENTY of 99 and up TAs and camaros.. ram air models also.. sticks and autos.. even some mild bolt on cars.. and 3 of them with very small cams... again ANYTHING can happen in racing.. and there are many factors.. but this goes for dyno numbers also.. just because its a 98 doesnt mean its a POS.. and just because its an 02 ws6 doesnt mean its going to outrun a 98 ta.....

    have only got 1 chance to run a vette.. it was a 1999 FRC.. 2.73s.. i had a lid and exhaust.. we were about dead even till about 50 cause my ass end was slinging all over.. and once i hooked i started to pull.. i got him by about a car and a half to 125...
    correct me if im wrong but didnt the FRC C5's ONLY come in manual trannny?...i as well raced a c5 in my 99 6 speed z28 lid/borla and beat him ....was a targa top and i have no clue what kinda tranny he had.....likely auto 273's

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyjnjz View Post
    correct me if im wrong but didnt the FRC C5's ONLY come in manual trannny?...i as well raced a c5 in my 99 6 speed z28 lid/borla and beat him ....was a targa top and i have no clue what kinda tranny he had.....likely auto 273's
    ooops.. hehe yes.. you are correct.. i was in like 5 threads at once... he was targa... NOT FRC.. auto 273s..

    it kills me that people think that an ls1 vette is leaps and bounds over tas and camaros..... its the name thing i guess.. like srt.. and so on... haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    ooops.. hehe yes.. you are correct.. i was in like 5 threads at once... he was targa... NOT FRC.. auto 273s..

    it kills me that people think that an ls1 vette is leaps and bounds over tas and camaros..... its the name thing i guess.. like srt.. and so on... haha
    well several things..srts are leaps and bounds better then their stock conterparts ..a srt4 will merk a regular neon ect. a ls1 is a ls1 is a ls1 is somewhat true. vette cams are more radical, their tuning is better and their exhaust is better..they will dyno slightly higher on average then t/as..this is where things get sticky...ls1s have a large build tolerence..this allows for the large spectrum of output numbers from factory "duds" 280rwhp to freaks "320+" ...so the same will be for the vette...thats why dynoing cars to compare is not wise with ls1s...its really the luck of the draw.

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    All factory C5's with the manual transmission came with the 3.42 axle ratio, there was no other option available. But the A4 equipped models had two choices of axle ratios. The standard equipment was the 2.73. An optional "performance ratio" G92 was available as an option; this being a 3.15 ratio.... be luckly you didnt run into a 3.15 A4 or it would get nasty

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    well several things..srts are leaps and bounds better then their stock conterparts ..a srt4 will merk a regular neon ect. a ls1 is a ls1 is a ls1 is somewhat true. vette cams are more radical, their tuning is better and their exhaust is better..they will dyno slightly higher on average then t/as..this is where things get sticky...ls1s have a large build tolerence..this allows for the large spectrum of output numbers from factory "duds" 280rwhp to freaks "320+" ...so the same will be for the vette...thats why dynoing cars to compare is not wise with ls1s...its really the luck of the draw.
    doesnt matter if they are leaps and bounds better or not.. the srt name doesnt make it fast... just like the corvette name doesnt make it fast... if your going to point out good things in a vette point out the bad also..makes your arguement stronger.. like their irs.. i dont care if they dyno the same higher lower.. the op does....... i just know i have beat the corvette ls1s that i have raced..



    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    All factory C5's with the manual transmission came with the 3.42 axle ratio, there was no other option available. But the A4 equipped models had two choices of axle ratios. The standard equipment was the 2.73. An optional "performance ratio" G92 was available as an option; this being a 3.15 ratio.... be luckly you didnt run into a 3.15 A4 or it would get nasty
    so your saying that a 2.73 is going to lose... but a 3.15 is going to embaress me?? thats like the diff. between 273s and 323s.... but not quite as much.. i wouldnt worry about either one. as long as it was an ls1......

    and im not trying to argue.. im just saying that people think that a stock ls1 corvette is going to DESTROY a stock ls1 camaro or trans am JUST BECAUSE ITS A CORVETTE.. wether they are ignorant or not.....

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    irs does not eat up all this hp that people claim. i had a 02 C5 and got it to run high 12s stock.
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    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
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    wheel hop also causes them a problem.. my car is running 13 flat stock.. so id say were both a little above average.. im just saying the ls1 corvette is no leaps and bounds above a ls1 ta or camaro.. i give them respect dont get me wrong.. but i put them directly on par with all other ls1s.. cept gtos.. just because they are heavy... now the ls2 gto and the zo6s and zr1.. of course a different story totally.. again.. dont get me wrong, i respect all ls based vehicles.. but if it has an ls1 in it stock.. its just about on par with all other ls1s.. regardless of year or model.. or the "name"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    doesnt matter if they are leaps and bounds better or not.. the srt name doesnt make it fast... just like the corvette name doesnt make it fast... if your going to point out good things in a vette point out the bad also..makes your arguement stronger.. like their irs.. i dont care if they dyno the same higher lower.. the op does....... i just know i have beat the corvette ls1s that i have raced..





    so your saying that a 2.73 is going to lose... but a 3.15 is going to embaress me?? thats like the diff. between 273s and 323s.... but not quite as much.. i wouldnt worry about either one. as long as it was an ls1......

    and im not trying to argue.. im just saying that people think that a stock ls1 corvette is going to DESTROY a stock ls1 camaro or trans am JUST BECAUSE ITS A CORVETTE.. wether they are ignorant or not.....

    hmmm no most think a corvette will win because...its lighter..better gearing..now this was if you dyno'd a maro or ta and the vette and all the 3 were the same exact numbers...and YES the SRT does make it fast..because SRT MAKES THEM FASTER THEN STOCK MODELS...DUH!

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    Does a cobra have more parasitic hp loss due to not having a solid rear axle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    wheel hop also causes them a problem.. my car is running 13 flat stock.. so id say were both a little above average.. im just saying the ls1 corvette is no leaps and bounds above a ls1 ta or camaro.. i give them respect dont get me wrong.. but i put them directly on par with all other ls1s.. cept gtos.. just because they are heavy... now the ls2 gto and the zo6s and zr1.. of course a different story totally.. again.. dont get me wrong, i respect all ls based vehicles.. but if it has an ls1 in it stock.. its just about on par with all other ls1s.. regardless of year or model.. or the "name"
    i agree that all ls1 based motors no matter what car are going to run about the same times.
    generally speaking the fastest will be a six speed C5 followed by a stripper Z/28 right on its tail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smkn_TA View Post
    Does a cobra have more parasitic hp loss due to not having a solid rear axle?
    the h.p difference between the two will be minor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    hmmm no most think a corvette will win because...its lighter..better gearing..now this was if you dyno'd a maro or ta and the vette and all the 3 were the same exact numbers...and YES the SRT does make it fast..because SRT MAKES THEM FASTER THEN STOCK MODELS...DUH!
    the srt name and emblem dont make them fast. whats inside does.. you can get an emblem and super glue the SOB on there.. haha.. thats what i was trying to say..

    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    i agree that all ls1 based motors no matter what car are going to run about the same times.
    generally speaking the fastest will be a six speed C5 followed by a stripper Z/28 right on its tail.
    true true.. in an ideal bench racing world.. but im sure you as well asi know that in street racing anything can happen.. hence i say an ls1 is an ls1 is an ls1... i got an 01 z with a lid last night from a roll (45-115) by 2.. he was an A4.. dont know the gearing..

    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    the h.p difference between the two will be minor.
    your talking the difference between a z28 and an ss.. (none).. lol.. irs is just not ideal for drag racing..

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    hmmm no most think a corvette will win because...its lighter..better gearing..now this was if you dyno'd a maro or ta and the vette and all the 3 were the same exact numbers...and YES the SRT does make it fast..because SRT MAKES THEM FASTER THEN STOCK MODELS...DUH!

    most that i talk to.. (idiots in town...) say no you wont win.. and when i ask why they say because its a vette.. and i say yes but i have the same engine plus an ms4 cam.. and they say "still its a vette".. thats what i usually get......

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons12 View Post
    most that i talk to.. (idiots in town...) say no you wont win.. and when i ask why they say because its a vette.. and i say yes but i have the same engine plus an ms4 cam.. and they say "still its a vette".. thats what i usually get......
    and thats exactly what chevy wants you to think and say.

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    Black ASC#7564 May11,2001
    2001 Trans Am WS6

    From my Dyno Database - Dyno Jet, SAE correction, all Manual Transmission

    01-02 WS6 average 314hp to the wheels.
    01-02 Trans Am (Non WS6) average 308hp to the wheels
    The extra power from the WS6 comes mostly from the muffler. It is less restrictive than a regular TA muffler. It is not from the Ram Air hood.

    99 Cobra average 272 hp to the wheels
    01 Cobra average 274 hp to the wheels
    03-04 Mach I average 275 hp to the wheels
    01-04 Corvette average 305hp to the wheels

    As far as the 305 being a POS engine, you may want to re-think that.

    Most people agree that the Ford 5.0 was an awesome engine for it's day. It was rated at 225 hp but, Ford later admitted that it was overrated by about 10 hp. (they did not dyno with the air silencer and all accessories in place.)

    Also, each passing year the engine lost a little power as Ford changed cam specs and computer tuning for better drivability and emissions. In the end the 5.0 Ford was a 205 hp engine with 275lbs of torque.

    In the end, the 305 TPI Chevy engine was a 230hp engine with 300lbs of torque.
    I don't know about you, but it seems to me that the 305 was a pretty damn good engine when compared to the Ford. I think there are a few factors that gave this engine a bad reputation.
    1. The first TPI cars could only be purchased with an auto transmission. When racing a 5 speed Mustang, the Camaro/Auto will lose, and it will loose bad.

    2. Even when the T5 became available, the Camaro still weighed more than a Mustang. The Camaro needed the extra torque of the 350 to beat a light weight Mustang. Even with the 230 hp version of the 305, the Camaro would still loose more than it would win. They were close at this point, but the Mustang was, on average still slightly quicker.

    3. Most Camaros had the LG4 or LO3 305. These engines were not performance engines and would loose bad to a Mustang. This really added to the reputation of the 305 being a POS and added to the mind set of a lot of people that 3rd gen Camaros were slow while Mustangs were Kings of the road.
    Some mostly useless statistics:
    58% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a V8 Engine.
    Only 9.5% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a 305TPI Engine.
    Only 3% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a 350 TPI Engine.
    So, when a Mustang pulled up to a V8 Camaro at a stop light, the odds were it was an LG4 or an LO3. Another easy Camaro Kill for a 5.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smkn_TA View Post
    Does a cobra have more parasitic hp loss due to not having a solid rear axle?
    Bob Cosby (Corral.net) performed a solid axle swap on a Cobra. He dynoed before and after the swap. I do not remember exact numbers, but he saw very little difference. I think it made a few hp less with the solid axle(If I remember correctly)

    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    vette cams are more radical, their tuning is better and their exhaust is better..they will dyno slightly higher on average then t/as..this is where things get sticky...ls1s have a large build tolerence..this allows for the large spectrum of output numbers from factory "duds" 280rwhp to freaks "320+" ...so the same will be for the vette...thats why dynoing cars to compare is not wise with ls1s...its really the luck of the draw.
    The Cams for the F-Body and Corvette are identicle from 2001-2004.
    The Vette may have a slightly better flowing exhaust, but the air intake is slightly more restrictive.
    The Fbody will dyno higher than the Corvette on average.

    The LS1 does not have a large build tolerance. The exact opposite is true. I read a statement from GM that said all LS1 engines are within 1% or 2% (Can't remember which) of each other in horsepower. Maybe it was 3%? Either way they were bragging that these engines are all very close to each other. The lowest DynoJet numbers I have for an 01-02 WS6 T56 is 301hp with the maximum being 328hp. All of the other
    There are many factors that will cause variance in dyno numbers even with the same car.

    Condition of air filter
    Air pressure in tires
    Condition (Age) of engine oil
    Temperature of engine oil, Transmission Fluid, Differential fliud
    Temperature of engine
    Sparkplug condition
    Correction Factor used
    Ventilation in dyno room
    Dyno Calibration

    I'm sure there are more things these are just off the top of my head.
    I have seen many runs where a car 'gains' 10 - 15 hp from the first run to the third run with no changes made to anything. I think this is mainly due to the thining of the engine oil, trans oil, and differntial oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2-bowties&abird View Post
    i read somewhere if you divide rwhp by .85 that will give you your fwhp. so if you divide 300 rwhp as an average of our cars by .85 it comes out to be 352 fwhp. i'm not swearing by this but when you do the math it's damn close.
    This percentage depends on numbers from which dyno brand you are quoting and if are you going by factory rated crank hp or the aftermarket rated crank hp.
    The factory uses a correction factor that gives slightly lower numbers than the aftermarket.
    Most manual cars, on a Dynojet, using factory rated hp, (when it it accuratly rated) will show around an 11% loss to the wheels. Autos, on a Dynojet, show about 15% loss. 350 hp -11% loss = 311.5 hp

    Other dyno brands will show a different percentage of loss because they will give different numbers for RWHP.
    Last edited by DarthD; 04-12-2008 at 09:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarthD View Post
    From my Dyno Database - Dyno Jet, SAE correction, all Manual Transmission

    01-02 WS6 average 314hp to the wheels.
    01-02 Trans Am (Non WS6) average 308hp to the wheels
    The extra power from the WS6 comes mostly from the muffler. It is less restrictive than a regular TA muffler. It is not from the Ram Air hood.

    99 Cobra average 272 hp to the wheels
    01 Cobra average 274 hp to the wheels
    03-04 Mach I average 275 hp to the wheels
    01-04 Corvette average 305hp to the wheels

    As far as the 305 being a POS engine, you may want to re-think that.

    Most people agree that the Ford 5.0 was an awesome engine for it's day. It was rated at 225 hp but, Ford later admitted that it was overrated by about 10 hp. (they did not dyno with the air silencer and all accessories in place.)

    Also, each passing year the engine lost a little power as Ford changed cam specs and computer tuning for better drivability and emissions. In the end the 5.0 Ford was a 205 hp engine with 275lbs of torque.

    In the end, the 305 TPI Chevy engine was a 230hp engine with 300lbs of torque.
    I don't know about you, but it seems to me that the 305 was a pretty damn good engine when compared to the Ford. I think there are a few factors that gave this engine a bad reputation.
    1. The first TPI cars could only be purchased with an auto transmission. When racing a 5 speed Mustang, the Camaro/Auto will lose, and it will loose bad.

    2. Even when the T5 became available, the Camaro still weighed more than a Mustang. The Camaro needed the extra torque of the 350 to beat a light weight Mustang. Even with the 230 hp version of the 305, the Camaro would still loose more than it would win. They were close at this point, but the Mustang was, on average still slightly quicker.

    3. Most Camaros had the LG4 or LO3 305. These engines were not performance engines and would loose bad to a Mustang. This really added to the reputation of the 305 being a POS and added to the mind set of a lot of people that 3rd gen Camaros were slow while Mustangs were Kings of the road.
    Some mostly useless statistics:
    58% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a V8 Engine.
    Only 9.5% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a 305TPI Engine.
    Only 3% of all 3rd Gen Camaros had a 350 TPI Engine.
    So, when a Mustang pulled up to a V8 Camaro at a stop light, the odds were it was an LG4 or an LO3. Another easy Camaro Kill for a 5.0.



    Bob Cosby (Corral.net) performed a solid axle swap on a Cobra. He dynoed before and after the swap. I do not remember exact numbers, but he saw very little difference. I think it made a few hp less with the solid axle(If I remember correctly)



    The Cams for the F-Body and Corvette are identicle from 2001-2004.
    The Vette may have a slightly better flowing exhaust, but the air intake is slightly more restrictive.
    The Fbody will dyno higher than the Corvette on average.

    The LS1 does not have a large build tolerance. The exact opposite is true. I read a statement from GM that said all LS1 engines are within 1% or 2% (Can't remember which) of each other in horsepower. Maybe it was 3%? Either way they were bragging that these engines are all very close to each other. The lowest DynoJet numbers I have for an 01-02 WS6 T56 is 301hp with the maximum being 328hp. All of the other
    There are many factors that will cause variance in dyno numbers even with the same car.

    Condition of air filter
    Air pressure in tires
    Condition (Age) of engine oil
    Temperature of engine oil, Transmission Fluid, Differential fliud
    Temperature of engine
    Sparkplug condition
    Correction Factor used
    Ventilation in dyno room
    Dyno Calibration

    I'm sure there are more things these are just off the top of my head.
    I have seen many runs where a car 'gains' 10 - 15 hp from the first run to the third run with no changes made to anything. I think this is mainly due to the thining of the engine oil, trans oil, and differntial oil.



    This percentage depends on numbers from which dyno brand you are quoting and if are you going by factory rated crank hp or the aftermarket rated crank hp.
    The factory uses a correction factor that gives slightly lower numbers than the aftermarket.
    Most manual cars, on a Dynojet, using factory rated hp, (when it it accuratly rated) will show around an 11% loss to the wheels. Autos, on a Dynojet, show about 15% loss. 350 hp -11% loss = 311.5 hp

    Other dyno brands will show a different percentage of loss because they will give different numbers for RWHP.
    Damn good info damn good I say bravo

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    Black ASC#7564 May11,2001
    2001 Trans Am WS6

    Thanks.
    I have dyno numbers for a LOT more cars. (Mostly 1990s+ F-bodys, Mustangs, Corvettes, and GTOs, but I have some info for Lightnings, and Grand Nationals also.)
    I have been building my dyno database for a few years now.
    I believe it to be pretty accurate. I have each kind of car separated by year and model and the averages that should be the same are very close.
    A few examples -

    02 WS6 - 313 hp
    01 WS6 - 315 hp
    00 WS6 - 311 hp
    02 SS - 313 hp
    01 SS - 315hp
    00 SS - 311hp
    02 Firehawk - 316hp
    02 Z28 - 307hp
    01 Z28 - 307hp
    02 TA - 308hp
    etc..
    All of these cars average around 330 torque.
    Last edited by DarthD; 04-12-2008 at 10:03 PM. Reason: Correct spelling

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    hmm gm mass produced engines will always have a large build tolerance compared to other performance engines that are not mass produced. i tend not to believe claims that any major manufacturers statements when it comes to output ect.

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    i am trying to remember the build tolerance ..damn

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