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Would you buy a WS6 with 109K on the clock?

This is a discussion on Would you buy a WS6 with 109K on the clock? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Found a 98 WS6 2 owner car. Original owners owned it until last November and the current owner has owned ...

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    Would you buy a WS6 with 109K on the clock?

    Found a 98 WS6 2 owner car. Original owners owned it until last November and the current owner has owned it since then. Stock auto car with only a catback exhaust as a mod. I have driven it and it drives nice but needs an alignment and probably some new shocks. I can get it for a fair price(7K) but my concern is the mileage. The car was the original owners in Texas DD and the current owner hasn't owned it long enough to really do anything to it, I don't fear that it has been beat on and the carfax is clear. Is it unwise to purchase a Ws6 with more 100K on the clock? I have found a few other stock cars that have about 12-20K less on them but I would spend 1200-1800 more for them.

    My intention for the car would be to put a SLP lid and LS6 intake on it. Would probably never see the track and would be driven respectfully 95% of the time

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    I wouldn't sweat the mileage. If it has been taken care of save yourself some cash. I see these cars with over 150k on them still running great. It's all about how well it's been take care of. A 50k mi car can be beat to death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rc74racer View Post
    I wouldn't sweat the mileage. If it has been taken care of save yourself some cash. I see these cars with over 150k on them still running great. It's all about how well it's been take care of. A 50k mi car can be beat to death.

    Thats what I keep returning too. This car has pretty much everything I am looking for. Sure it has some issues its 14 years old but nothing I can't handle but I have never been in an automatic car that shifted as smoothly as this car did. I guess my concern is I have heard many people say that the T56 and 4l60e transmissions are weak for these cars. Now I'm not sure if they mean for track use or what and as I said I doubt this car would ever see the track, just some aggressive acceleration here and there.
    Last edited by 79TransAm; 06-01-2012 at 11:45 AM.

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    The T56 is not weak at all it's very strong. The 4l60e is another story, but you are not going to race or highly modify the car so I would not worry about it. Unless you are going to get an A4 with a lot less miles the tranny will be of some concern. You've driven it and it shifts well go for it. If the tranny does go out the money you saved can be used to upgrade it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rc74racer View Post
    The T56 is not weak at all it's very strong. The 4l60e is another story, but you are not going to race or highly modify the car so I would not worry about it. Unless you are going to get an A4 with a lot less miles the tranny will be of some concern. You've driven it and it shifts well go for it. If the tranny does go out the money you saved can be used to upgrade it.
    So would you recommend getting a M6 car then if all things are considered equal? I would "prefer" a m6 but it is in no way a deal breaker if its an auto

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    98 T/A w/a little mods...

    As a 98' owner myself and it had 108k at the time I got it ($6500 3 yrs ago), I say yes if it is in good shape. You seem to have a detail history that indicates that it wasn't abuse and neglected.

    Mine was first owned by a guy in his late 40's, had it for 10 yrs then sold it to a 17yr old girl, she got tired of driving a stick and wanted something else, so it ends up in my lap It was so taken care of that at 108k miles it still had the original clutch that lasted me another 3k miles.



    Some things about the 98 you should know.

    Oldest of the LS1 engines.
    Has a history of Oil Pump failures. Not saying this one does but it is a known issue.
    Water Temp Gauge is the only yr that are accurate
    Door panels don't suffer cracks like the following years
    Sail Panels do not have glue that bubbles up and requires a new sail panel, glue and paint to fix.
    PCV system is slightly different (and just as worthless) then the following years
    Has EGR and Air Pump.

    There are some more but these are at the top of the list.


    If you get it, even with your current plans of DD and no track I still recommend the following:

    Delete the EGR/Air Pump/CATS, get some SFC's, LT headers, ORY, LS6 intake and a mail order tune from Frost. These will give you a good ride, better mileage, and much enjoyment. And the best part is you can do all in your garage or drive way.


    One more thing to add - when you do the LS6 intake upgrade to 99< knock sensors and wire harness. They have phased out >98 KS. You can still get them but for how much longer
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 06-01-2012 at 12:01 PM.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 79TransAm View Post
    So would you recommend getting a M6 car then if all things are considered equal? I would "prefer" a m6 but it is in no way a deal breaker if its an auto
    M6's are fun but when stuck in traffic that turns interstate hwy's into parking lots those are the times I wish for a A4.


    In regards to racing - automatics have come a long, long ways and are whooping manual's ass on the track for several yrs now.

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    So would you suggest to just replace the oil pump right away? I will have some extra cash if I were to get this and could offload 1K into the car pretty much right off the bat? Also I don't really have traffic issues at all where I live so that's not really an issue. I just like driving manual's more then autos but finding a good M6 close by is tough. I can find regular TA's that have 80-90K on them and an M6 for roughly the same price but I really want a WS6
    Last edited by 79TransAm; 06-01-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  9. #9
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    This is a tricky answer. I haven't done mine yet. But I also keep an eye on the oil pressure gauge and use Mobile 1 all the time for oil. I plan on doing it when I do a H/C but now that I have a LQ4 block my focus is shifting to getting that built. My current plans are build the LQ4, pull the LS1, throw on H/C and find a new toy to put it into.

    Let's say if you wanted to go in for piece of mind then yeah I recommend it. While there do a LS2 timing chain, you have to remove it to get to the pump might as well do it too and have something new and stronger then stock. Careful I can spend your $$ quick You'll never notice when the mod bug bites you




    When I was searching I wanted a Firehawk first, WS6 second but in the end I got a slick beak bird (non-WS6).

    I thought about it for a long time and realized everything that made a WS6 a WS6 was going to get upgraded with exception to the hood. So to pay an extra 2k was silly on my part. I have plans for a new hood but it's a ways off still. I'm modding the hell out of her and the last thing I want is to do paint early and have a chance of damaging it. So all the big mods will be done first then I'll get the WSQ hood form VFN and then get a paint job.


    I still want the other two but I'll pursue in due time.
    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f7/my-6-liter-build-174257/

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/f8/my-8-8-rear-build-165553/

    6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, 104mm Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56 w/Viper shaft, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, Monster Stg 4 Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.

    Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!

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    Ha well I don't really plan on doing much to the car cept for the lid, intake and some of the things you suggested. Speaking of the intake which one should I get? I see the bbk on jegs BBK Performance Products 5004 BBK LS1 and Z06 SSI-Series Intake Manifolds but would a gm or slp one be better? Also do I need to replace anything else to install it such at the TB and would I need to tune it afterwards or is it pretty much just a bolt on? Engines with computers confuse me at the moment, I'm used to my 400

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    On a stock LS1 the LS6 is plenty enough. No need to spend more on the same performance gains unless you want something shiny (BBK intake).

    SLP Products I like many here hold with a grain of salt. The Lid, LM1 muffler and line lock are good products however everything else.....mehh.....LT's have fitment and clearance issues.

    Almost any aftermarket lid is 1000% better then stock.

    The only exception to the Blackwing Lid. This is another SLP product that was a factory option. If you have one or find one get it and hide it. I didn't mention above with the other SLP stuff because they are becoming rare items to see/have.

    I have a S3 P&P TB. Decent price. Gives as much flow as the BBK TB but half the cost. Unless you upgrade to a FAST 102 I wouldn't waste any money on getting anything more then the S3 TB I mention.


    Here are some help threads that have great info.

    General info write-ups and stickies

    Technical info write-ups and stickies


    These have lots of info like what's different between the yrs and common fixes to problems that we know. Some are simple and some you have to have skills and tools.

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    So am I understanding you correctly I should just get the gm ls6 intake?

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    If you know the car has been taken care of, and a visual and mechanical inspection yield no issues, it should be fine.

    As Scott stated above, you're fine with the LS1/LS6 intake if you only plan to do bolt-on mods-unless you just have to have something cool-looking and shiny under the hood. Same goes for the stock TB and MAF. Unless you're planning on doing heads and a cam, I'd leave everything as-is.
    Last edited by FinZ28; 06-01-2012 at 02:39 PM.
    2001 Chevy Camaro Z28 A4
    SLP cold air intake/lid, SLP smooth bellow, Pacesetter LT's, ORY, Magnaflow exhaust, BMR STB, adjustable Panhard rod, SFC's, LCA's, 1LE sway bars, cross-drilled rotors

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    Quote Originally Posted by 79TransAm View Post
    So am I understanding you correctly I should just get the gm ls6 intake?
    Yes no need to get anything else for what you are planning.

    As far as M6 vs. A4. As much as I like the T56, I can't stand late model GM hydraulics. I've owned 2 and both have had issues. My 99ss had 35k on the clock when I got it and the MC went out before 40k. My 05 GTO had 1700 miles on it and the slave went out at 14k. I was able to replace both myself and save some coin but it pissed me off. It's very common to have these issues, I do not abuse my cars either. If I were to get another Fbody it would be an A4 and I would add a stall.

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    ^^
    this is why I like my M6 over an A4. I can fix most of it. Autos to me are some voodoo creation....

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    OP, if you really want an M6 car, hold out for that. I sold my 1967 400 4-spd Firebird in 2000, got a '98 AT equipped Trans Am. The '98 was 90% as fast as the '67, but got almost triple the gas mileage, not to mention AC, brakes that work more than one hard stop and no overheating issues. I really missed the manual trans, so now I have the black WS6 since 2005 and have no intention of selling it. My mod for this summer will be an LS6 intake upgrade. Yeah I have occasional issues with the clutch hydraulics, but it's not a problem that can't be fixed if I wanna. And still have the OE clutch.

  17. #17
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    About the hydro-clutch issues. Don't worry to much, you can do the drill mod and if/when the master goes drop s few extra coin and get the Tick master. Everything I've read has been nothing but positive things. It is also on my list of things to do for me as well.

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    i wouldn't pay over 6k for it... with that mileage you'll have more squeaks and clunks and every thing else to drive you up the wall...
    Smittro likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaz View Post
    i wouldn't pay over 6k for it... with that mileage you'll have more squeaks and clunks and every thing else to drive you up the wall...
    kbb value in my area is at 7200. Also I have yet to find a Ws6 priced at 6K with anything close to these miles, in fact this is the most reasonably priced Ws6 I have found yet. Many many cars with 10-20K more miles asking 8K+

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    Quote Originally Posted by 79TransAm View Post
    Ha well I don't really plan on doing much to the car cept for the lid, intake and some of the things you suggested. Speaking of the intake which one should I get? I see the bbk on jegs BBK Performance Products 5004 BBK LS1 and Z06 SSI-Series Intake Manifolds but would a gm or slp one be better? Also do I need to replace anything else to install it such at the TB and would I need to tune it afterwards or is it pretty much just a bolt on? Engines with computers confuse me at the moment, I'm used to my 400
    Ha ha good luck with that. I've had my ws6 a year and a half and it now has a cammed 6.0 in her. I wasn't originally planning on doing anything but headers and a lid. The mod bug bit me hard in the ass. But being a girl, I felt like I had alot to prove.

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