View Poll Results: Sports car or Muscle car?

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What is a Muscle car?

This is a discussion on What is a Muscle car? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Ya various age groups here that lived through different times. There is no way I could make a teenager understand ...

  1. #41
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya various age groups here that lived through different times. There is no way I could make a teenager understand and I wouldn't expect them to. Very true indeed.

  2. #42
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Ya various age groups here that lived through different times. There is no way I could make a teenager understand and I wouldn't expect them to. Very true indeed.
    Yea most teens literally couldn't drive their cars without power steering! Ooops, I mean their parents cars. My uncle let me drive his 40's ford pickup...man that thing was nice. No power steering though so it sucked.......im jk

  3. #43
    Member TACE02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TACE02 View Post
    Repost this thread in 20 years and you will get similar answers. Our fathers prolly think muscle cars died 20 something years ago. But in 20 years WE will prolly think muscle cars died 20 something years ago. IMO yes F-Bodies are muscle cars, muscle cars of a new era. They have that same aggressive look as back in the days and they have that HP and TORQUE.

    like I said on page 1...

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The pony cars jumped onto the bandwagon of muscle car status as soon as they were born. They all could be had with the same engines the bigger cars had, and in some cases were the faster of the bunch due to being lighter. They may have been marketed as pony cars but they were also most definately muscle cars as well.
    You've got a point. ALL the f-bods are "pony cars", the ones w/ the biggest V8s (400+ci Birds and 396+ci Camaros) could certainly be considered "muscle cars" too.

    Quote Originally Posted by TACE02
    Well I guess you are saying there is no such thing as a muscle car anymore??? least none built in the last decade or more.
    I'm trying to think of a car that fits the original definition (mid-size w/ big car engine). The problem is, when was the last time any "big car" had and engine that was nearly exclusive to it? 6.1L HEMI in the SRT8s? Since those ARE the "big cars", not "muscle", and they don't put the 6.1L (or even the 5.7L) in anything smaller (yet). 5.3L Monte Carlo? Maybe, but FWD would kill that in my book. I guess the definition of "muscle car" must change and evolve to accomodate what's available. I suppose if you re-define it as "the fastest car of the model line available", then certainly V8 f-bods, heck anything w/ the top-optioned engine could be considered a "muscle car" (V8 Bonnevilles/Imps/MCs/what's that Buick w/ the NS V8?, CTS-V, STS-V, GT500, SRT8, Z06, WRX, SRT4, SRT10, etc)...... but then that seems almost too broad of a definition.

  5. #45
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    You were talking about the new monte carlo and bonneville but those are both front wheel drive, i dont believe in front wheel drive muscle cars.

  6. #46
    Admiral Biotch
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    I dont know much about cars...but im trying to learn. But No car is a muscle car unless it has RWD. To me "pony cars" and "muscle cars" have the same meaning within their term. Pony is fast and the dream cars that everyone wants. Well what is a muscle car besides it being fast and dreamy? They are the same thing to me. Big engines, fat tires. Sure comfort was not an option back then..but it is modernized now, and it still holds the true meaning of muscle/pony.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by crimson Tiger View Post
    I dont know much about cars...but im trying to learn. But No car is a muscle car unless it has RWD. To me "pony cars" and "muscle cars" have the same meaning within their term. Pony is fast and the dream cars that everyone wants. Well what is a muscle car besides it being fast and dreamy? They are the same thing to me. Big engines, fat tires. Sure comfort was not an option back then..but it is modernized now, and it still holds the true meaning of muscle/pony.
    Not necessarily. A V6 f-bod or mustang is still a "pony car", but would you consider them a "muscle car"?? I wouldn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000T/A Guru
    You were talking about the new monte carlo and bonneville but those are both front wheel drive, i dont believe in front wheel drive muscle cars.
    I'd agree, I was just thinking out loud about how if aren't careful about how you widen the definition of "muscle car", too many cars could then fall into that category. This has been a debate that's been going on since the last true "muscle cars" were built. Again, as I've stated, the ORIGINAL definition of "muscle car" was a mid-size everyday 5+ seater car with a "big car" engine under the hood. I would NOT consider a "pony car" a "muscle car" unless it had the most powerful engine option. Some people would not consider anything slower than a 14.5 sec 1/4 time as "muscle", so even the 305ci IROC-Z fails to qualify. But then if you use speed as a yardstick, be prepared to accept SRT-4s, 350Zs and WRXs to the fold.

  8. #48
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    No its not about speed even some of the old muscle cars werent that fast, some weighed a fuck ton. My aunts 79 T/A with the 455 only ran a 14.7 at the track. I believe that to be a muscle car.

  9. #49
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya the 64 GTO which some consider to be the original muscle car would only muster mid to high 14's with the base 389 4barrel engine, thats with a 4speed and a decent gear. And you could even have the 2 speed powerglide behind that to make it even more sluggish. It was the tri-power option with 348 HP in 64 and 360 HP in 65 that made those cars famous,,,,with good rubber and a sharp tune they ran easy 13's.

    But back then a 14 second car was pretty quick, thats what most were running back then.

    Even today a 14 second car is still peppy,,,,a 13 second car is enough to hold your own on most street encounters nowadays that you may come accross. Very few real 12 second cars around and the number dwindles the faster you get. Some think you have to have a 11 second street car to be fast, but the truth is,,,,,you very seldom even come accross a car that fast on the street,,,,a solid 13 second car will be enough in most cases.

  10. #50
    Member Thorazine Shuffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kup98ss View Post
    sports car= 2 seats

    muscle car= back seat

    Corvette= some sort of cross dresser or transvestite or what ever.


    So does that make a '69 AMX a "sports car"?

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by warpwr View Post
    When the Mustang and Camaro was first introduced Austin-Healey and MG's were considered sports cars and they were all owned by douche-bags who wore tweed jackets and smoked pipes.

    Muscle or Pony cars had big, American iron V8's and weren't built for cornering as much as straight line power. Because that's what we (along with rock & roll, drive-in movies, drive-in restaurants, cute pony-tailed girls in short skirts, drag strips, etc) wanted. The only 'sports cars' that fit our requirements were Cobras or Corvettes.

    So for me at least, I can't consider my Camaro a sports car. The term itself makes me remember the olden times.
    You can't call a Cobra a muscle car. Muscle cars are from the '60s and '70s and to be calling a Cobra a muscle car is disrespectful to era which was known for muscle cars.

  12. #52
    Junior Member *JC*'s Avatar
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    Here's a good way to look at it and some vehicles can be cross overs but still retain their orginal catagory:

    Lambo's, Ferrari, NSX, and the like are all exotics...
    La sable, CTS, Maurada, and the like are all luxuary cars...
    Corvette, Cobra, Viper, MG, Miata, Supra and the like are all sports cars...
    Firebird, Camaro, Mustang, AMX, Javlin and the like are all pony cars...
    GTO, Chevelle, Cutlass, Rambler, Gran sport, Charger and the like are all Muscle cars...
    Cobalt ss, Neon srt4, and the like are all tuner's...

    So, where does that leave cars like the Buick T-type? Or more modern high horsepower cars? Hmmmm, that's a good question and I agree a more modern definition is needed. There's no doubting that the cars of the 60's made the name "Muscle Cars" but it can hardly be said that muscle cars died in the early 70's. There was plenty of cars in the 70's that were just as ground pounding as those found in the early 60's muscle. The 80's had some remarkable cars too but it wasn't until the 90's that some of the former power of horsepower really came back...

    Maybe the true definition of a Muscle car lays in the fact that it was designed purposely to be fast and has the horsepower to do so? I just don't have the answer? Maybe it's a bit like what a supreme court justice once said when asked about defining ponography vs. art. He stated: " he wasn't sure what ponography was but he knew it, when he saw it!"

    I think we all know what a muscle car is, when we see it...

  13. #53
    Member SAGGIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *JC* View Post
    Here's a good way to look at it and some vehicles can be cross overs but still retain their orginal catagory:

    Lambo's, Ferrari, NSX, and the like are all exotics...
    La sable, CTS, Maurada, and the like are all luxuary cars...
    Corvette, Cobra, Viper, MG, Miata, Supra and the like are all sports cars...
    Firebird, Camaro, Mustang, AMX, Javlin and the like are all pony cars...
    GTO, Chevelle, Cutlass, Rambler, Gran sport, Charger and the like are all Muscle cars...
    Cobalt ss, Neon srt4, and the like are all tuner's...

    So, where does that leave cars like the Buick T-type? Or more modern high horsepower cars? Hmmmm, that's a good question and I agree a more modern definition is needed. There's no doubting that the cars of the 60's made the name "Muscle Cars" but it can hardly be said that muscle cars died in the early 70's. There was plenty of cars in the 70's that were just as ground pounding as those found in the early 60's muscle. The 80's had some remarkable cars too but it wasn't until the 90's that some of the former power of horsepower really came back...

    Maybe the true definition of a Muscle car lays in the fact that it was designed purposely to be fast and has the horsepower to do so? I just don't have the answer? Maybe it's a bit like what a supreme court justice once said when asked about defining ponography vs. art. He stated: " he wasn't sure what ponography was but he knew it, when he saw it!"

    I think we all know what a muscle car is, when we see it...
    ^AMEN

  14. #54
    Junior Member Armor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAGGIN View Post
    You can't call a Cobra a muscle car. Muscle cars are from the '60s and '70s and to be calling a Cobra a muscle car is disrespectful to era which was known for muscle cars.

    I think he's referring to the old Shelby AC Cobras from the '60's....and yes, they are pure sports car
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