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08-09-2014, 09:08 PM #3481
When I put in my TSP 1-7/8 LT headers I was able to get them in by removing the oil filter and getting the car high enough in the air so that the headers were 90 degrees to the orientation that they would be installed. A little bit of a muscle push and they went up and into place. I did this on jack stands in my garage. It varies from car to car though. There have been some that needed to unhook the steering knuckle but never have I heard about a motor mount needing to come out.
08-09-2014, 11:36 PM #3482
I reckon i have the most ill fitting TSP LT's out there!!
I will take a few pics along the way during this but the main
bracket of the motor mount will have to come out.... be notched
in a really quite substantial way and bolted back in.
it was a close call with the steering knuckle on mine too but just
cleated it. My filter came off also.
But as i said.... in addition to the above, we will have to grind the
welded flange of the pressed steel frame part right back and then run
a seam of weld back on to regain integrity!!! Not doing this last part
will result in one of the tubes being in permanent contact with the
flange and i don't want this!!
Then.... after the two headers are finally bolted in we face the unknown
in mating the TSP headers to a Kooks Y with Magnaflow cats thrown into
the mix. My future DEFINITELY features notching/welding/tweaking/easing/
cursing/screaming and hopefully finally sighing with relief once it is all done!!
I said to Nigel that it must be hell for people on jack stands. we have the
benefit of a lift.
08-10-2014, 05:28 AM #3483
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Mansfield, PA
Black & Blue
- '02 WS.6 / '07 Suburban
For our Kooks LT's, I had to remove the oil filter and grind maybe an 1/8" off a flange on the driver side underbody. Very easy to install
08-10-2014, 07:47 AM #3484
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- 1999 Trans-Am, 2012 Sonic
My OBX LT's were just as easy. Had to massage the floor board just a bit, loosen the motor mount and jack it up some. Passenger side went right in. All done on jack stands. There were some struggles and swearing but nothing like that.99 Trans Am, SLP Lid, Blackwing filter, smooth bellow, Ported TB, LS6 intake, Ws6 lower ram air box, OBX LT's, Magna Flow cat back, LS7 clutch, Tick MC, Hurst Shifter, Frost Tune, UMI SFC,LAC, STB, PB, Torq Arm, Super Hawk hood, Torq Thrust II, Kee Audio.
Strange S60 4:10's, D&S Rotors, S/S Brake Lines.
Nitto NT05R Track Tire's, 12.7 @ 108 / 1.82 60'
Coil overs, Heads & Cam
08-10-2014, 07:56 AM #3485
One thing to mention is that it is much easier with the suspension unloaded. Not sure of it is a body lift you are using or a wheel one. Something to think about as well.
08-10-2014, 10:49 AM #3486
Chris ...it is a body lift we have and it is fine. All unloaded!
Now.... The drivers side is in and the header bolts are done up but it was
a truly hideous ordeal in getting it in,
Far from just the easing of the flange i described, we had to literally remove
a large part of the metal and re-weld with a "half tube" to allow for the header
tube to basically sit in inside the "U" shape provided by it. I have read that the TSP
long tubes are one of the best "non US brands but i have to disagree. I could not
go to Kooks long tube prices but i would hesitate to recommend the TSP to anybody.
We have the skills, facilities and wherewithal to do the job but somebody on their back
with limited know how would have ZERO chance to accomplish what we managed today!!!
The motor mount bracket came in for an extraordinary amount of grinding and
clearancing!! The relevant header tube had to be "dressed" with a hammer to
clear the steering knuckle.
No idea what the pass. side will hold in store for us tomorrow but we will not pussy
around with "light clearancing". We will just go in full bore and modify the sub frame part
heavily from the word go and not go in and out with the header a million and one times!!
Just offering it up later today showed us it will not ease straight in... NO CHANCE!
These headers ARE NOT ready to roll out of the box in my opinion!
I suppose it is feasible that i have a poorly jigged pair and others are a lot better??!!
08-10-2014, 11:35 AM #3487
A picture speaks a thousand words!
Have a look.....
You can see the pre-grind pic followed by the post grind pic of the motor mount.
You can see the notching and insertion of the "U" tube in the lower member prior to clean up.
You can see the headers finally in with the ABSOLUTELY NEEDED clearancing of the M mount!!!
Dunno what else to add. The fitment was sh*t but we got around it, happily
Tomorrow the passenger side!!!
08-10-2014, 11:52 AM #3488
Wow... with fitment like that I would be willing to say that you might have received the wrong headers. You definitely shouldn't need to be cutting out half of the mount like that. I wish I had some similar angles from my install to show you. When I get home I will put my bird in the air and take some under neath pics to show you how mine fit. I would call and talk to TSP.
08-10-2014, 12:03 PM #3489
Even with all of the hacking about they, i would imagine, be the correct ones even if
they are a grim fit as.... what else would they fit?
OK, the header flange will fit any LS motor but what else could they be?
I hear you loud and clear but i reckon they ARE 2002 Trans Am just badly jigged
during manufacture ( or some other similar prob at the manufacturing stage which is why
they are a bit iffy on the fit? I have no other explanation??!!
TSP certainly supplied them as 98-2002 items!!!!
Still.... There are huge other problems in the world and "all" i have is exhaust troubles!
Always count your blessings!!
And i forgot to put a pic of Nigels cat, "Ratrod". Just wonderful markings!!!
08-10-2014, 12:39 PM #3490
An Egyptian Mau! I love those and would love to have one myself. They are unfortunately very expensive over here.
I would still call and talk to TSP. It's possible they sent you vette or GTO headers instead of f-body ones. I believe they are good enough to make the issue right.
08-10-2014, 01:43 PM #3491
A bit late now i fear!!?
After all of the mucking around, the drivers side is on and fitting ok
and with the tweaking and dare i say "flattening of tubes" (just a little)
i have zero chance of a refund but, as you know, The UK is a whole
different ball game in obtaining this kit over here and i just so envy you
guys because, and lets take my Kooks Y for example, you phone Summit
and order it... they send it free because it is over $100 or whatever and
bang.... you have it home for ticket price!! Me on the other hand, i order it,
it goes to a buds place and is sent on from his to mine. All the stuff
in this exhaust caper cost $305 to get it to me PLUS another $120 ish
to get it released from UK customs and on to me at home! That is $425
just going up in smoke for me to get my hands on it all!!!!!!!!
Anyhow.......Just how similar, or not, would the vette or GTO be i wonder?
Scratch that... I have been looking at length on their site and everything
else is just too different for this to be the case! I have to say that as we managed
to get them to finally fit, and pretty darn good when all is said, i simply cannot imagine
these headers being intended for another type of vehicle. Strangely though, the
TSP site shows very similar headers to mine (2002 TA), but the tubing arrangement
is a little different by design (in their pic of 1 7/8") but who knows what is what here!?
Going back to my Kooks Y pipe.... It has ZERO chance of mating to the TSP
headers and there is an AWFUL lot of modding ,welding and fab that is in my
near future. basically the Kooks Y package of tubes will become a series of bends for me
to work with and hopefully manage a good catted Y pipe!! Even the welded merge
will need altering fab work to be useful!! Nothing is wrong with the Kooks Y components,
just not intended to mate to TSP but i knew that and accepted that fact for my time
constraints in getting the work done!!!!!!!!!
I intend to take a lot more pics so even if my situation is not directly useful, a lot
of the work may be of general interest and may be helpful in someway?
I cannot believe NOBODY else has ever faced my motor mount issues???????
Just reckon i maybe got a Friday afternoon pair!?
Last edited by speedyWS6; 08-11-2014 at 05:11 AM.
08-10-2014, 06:34 PM #3492
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- 1999 Trans-Am, 2012 Sonic
I feel bad for you sounds like a lot of B.S. To go through. I got a set of OBX from eBay they came with the y-pipe you can get catted or with resonators. In my opinion they are a quality piece I was a welder full time for 16 years before I moved on in life and these headers had some of the nicest welds I have seen. Fitment was spot on, No leaks and not much discoloration. Also price is low.
I have to agree with Chris that they are wrong or someone has NO clue on building these headers. I did a lot of research and Never see anyone have to go through what you did. God bless you
08-10-2014, 09:26 PM #3493
I hear what you say regarding they may be wrong but although this would perhaps
explain a few things..... What other vehicle could they possibly be for?? Nothing else AT ALL
on the TSP site resembles what i have and all of the paperwork from them calls them
98-02 F body long tube headers!?
When you say "no clue" Jeff.... they are manufactured in China. I knew this before purchase
but all of the reviews said for out sourced manufacture the fitment is very good????!!!!!!!!!!
Looking at the build of the headers themselves, they look very well constructed with nice looking
TIG welding. Take away the fitment woes and they look a nice piece!!
Anyhow... i am up at 5:30 'cos all of this is running around in my head and i will be going at it
Last edited by speedyWS6; 08-11-2014 at 02:46 AM.
08-11-2014, 04:32 AM #3494
Update time and it is not a good update I'm afraid!!
After yesterdays nightmare fitting session which involved all
of the cutting, welding, banging, tweaking and finally getting the header
to get bolted up, we started to address the passenger side today.
Not good. I am now of the opinion i have been sent the wrong headers
and i have no idea what vehicle they are supposed to fit? Paperwork all
indicates the correct 98-2002 F body headers but i am now convinced they
are wrong. If you compare my headers for tubing design and construction
they are close but "not quite" the same. Have a look at the pics of both mine
laid out on the floor and the pics from the correct page on the TSP site.
Interestingly the O2 bungs are welded on in a different place on the site to what i have.
Another indication of the wrong ones perhaps?!
Here are some more general pics of the escapades and trauma and you can see
starter fitment issues and terrible proximity to the chassis member which is now cut!
How we managed yesterday, god only knows but we just assumed
"after market parts" and they will not be a straightforward fit and accepted
the trauma we went through as "normal"!!! Seems not, as once we offered
the passenger side header up we straight away saw we would have to get
busy with the cut off wheel and get shaping and welding on the matching
bit of chassis. We made a good cut and then after offering the header in thought
"OK, once we get the starter out we should be fine". NOT A CHANCE!! We got the header
in so far and saw that it still wanted to go forward by about 2" and this
would have involved really grinding into the motor mount like we had to on the
drivers side, and also, maybe, disconnecting the air con to remove the mount
(top long bolt). looking closer we saw there was a snowballs chance in hell of
getting the starter back in, if indeed we modified the motor mount and managed to
get the header bolts in!!?
As well as that problem the rearmost header tube, as it curves away from the
head and passes by that black plastic clad box arrangement... well, it was
simply way too close and would have melted/ ruined the plastic box in an instant.
Another point is that the collectors are damn low and make SLP look like a good fit.
We abandoned at this point and had a good cuss but i am in no man's land as i am
unsure what response i will receive but i will call later when they are out of
bed as the time difference means i have to wait a bit!
Once again the fact i am in the UK will pose problems I planned all of this out and
laid out a load of $$$ to achieve all the purchases and if i have to send it/them back
then there is more $$$ and followed by EVEN MORE $$$ to get the correct ones here!
In an ideal world the relevant person at TSP will put his hands
up and say " Oh no... that should never have happened, we'll get a fresh, correct set
shipped over immediately for him at no cost as it was not his fault in any way"
But, we'll have to wait and see on that one i guess! A full refund would also be acceptable!
My time frame is going up in smoke as i am off work right now and able to do the work
but have hit this brick wall and am at a standstill!!
What i WILL say is that human error is one of those things so i am not "going off on one" yet as
there is no need to. Hopefully TSP will be extra helpful!!?
Wish me luck and ANY AND ALL thoughts welcome to help me through this very unfortunate
UPDATE FOR THE UPDATE...... After looking at EVERY option on the TSP site i reckon my bud Nigel
and me managed to fit a 2010 camaro SS drivers side header into a 2002 Fbody!!!!
Check out the 100%match in the pics....
Watch this space
Last edited by speedyWS6; 08-11-2014 at 05:03 AM.
08-11-2014, 05:34 AM #3495
Good point. Something i did consider and you are right.
Anybody have any conclusive pics they can share to help me out here!?
Chris.... you said you may be able to offer some?
08-11-2014, 05:40 AM #3496
Those are absolutely incorrect headers!!! Maybe they are for a truck??? The headers you have are to long and to vertical. You should have never had to do 1/2 of the extra work you did. Good luck with tsp but i believe you should get a 100% full refund, and maybe a little something extra for you time also.
08-11-2014, 05:45 AM #3497
I deleted my post after getting your email about those being incorrect. Felt there was no need to confirm what we already found out
08-11-2014, 05:53 AM #3498
08-11-2014, 06:03 AM #3499
Makes me feel better that you are in agreement.
08-11-2014, 06:04 AM #3500
It's been awhile since I've posted what I've done lately. Mostly suspension mods : Last year was Lowering springs and shock upgrades, last week installed sway bars front& rear, adj. pan hard bar, torque arm and lower control arms all from spohn. rides nice and tight now. more later.
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