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Still looking for my Ram Air, how does this one sound?
This is a discussion on Still looking for my Ram Air, how does this one sound? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; ...
08-05-2015, 07:09 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2015
Still looking for my Ram Air, how does this one sound?
I am still on the hunt for my car. I found one I would like to go and visit but I am wondering if the modifications sound okay ITS A LONG drive for me so I would appreciate any info you guys might have. I have copied and pasted the info.
2000 Trans Am WS6
-T56 6-Speed Manual
-Black exterior/Ebony interior
Car is running perfectly, mechanically. Exterior is in great shape, save for some minor knicks accumulated over the years. Interior is nearly flawless. Overall, it's a beautiful car inside and out and definitely gets attention. Here are the mods that have been done (from what I can remember):
•Pacesetter Longtube Headers
•Kooks Hi-Flow Catted Y-Pipe
•SLP LM1 Catback
•LS6 Intake Manifold
•True Ram Air w/ K&N Intake
•LS7 Aluminum Flywheel
•PST 3.5" Aluminum Driveshaft
•Moser 9" Rear End
•Nodular Iron Case
•31 Spline Axles
•BMR Adjustable Panhard Rod
•BMR Lower Control Arms
•LG Motorsports Strut Tower Brace
•Pioneer P3200DVD Indash Touchscreen Receiver
•MTX Magnum Mono Amp
•Rockford Fosgate 10" Subwoofer
•Optima Yellow Top
•Custom Painted Black C5 Z06 Motorsport Wheels (not plasti-dipped, actually painted to match the car)
•Nitto NT555 275
•Toyo Proxes R888 315
•Blacked Out Rear Filler Panel
•Suncoast Raptor Hood
•MBA Engraved Firebird Shiftknob
•20% Tint All Around
•Quad 4" Corsa Tips
•DDM Tuning 6000K HIDs in Fogs
•Red Corvette Fuel Rail Covers
Last edited by boxergirl; 08-05-2015 at 07:13 PM.
08-05-2015, 07:16 PM #2
seems OK, half the mods listed you'll end up doing anyway. Post some pics if possible. For negotiating I'd base it off of the bolt-ons/drivetrain/suspension. See if he or she can verify the LS6 intake and take a look under it so you visibly see the suspension mods. Ask for receipts for clutch and rear end.98' Trans AM RIP
00' WS6/Black/Pacesetter LT's/Magnaflow Exhaust/SLP lid/Nick Williams 92mm TB/FAST 92 Intake/BMR Strut Tower Brace/BMR Rear LCA's/BMR Panhard Bar
08-05-2015, 09:05 PM #3
doesn't look like a bad deal really.....having that moser already in there is huge because that's a high dollar item most people try to get around doing in some form or another. I know people say when you mod a car you can't expect to get that money back out of it but I disagree to a point. That rear is a $2k+ mod that you wouldn't have to do down the road when the 10 bolt breaks and I say "when" because it's just a matter of time on that 10 bolt before it needs addressed.
08-06-2015, 03:56 AM #4
Seems like a nice ride. IMO $11k is a lil steep, but it really depends on how bad you want the car, and how desperate the seller wants to get rid of the car. As said before, ask for receipts of mods and verify there are is no damage from any accidents. A carfax is good, BUT if someone wrecks a car, doesn't get a police report or insurance involved, fixes it on their own, there will be no carfax. OBO I would say $8500, and let the negotiating start. My top dollar would be $9300. Just my $0.02.1998 Pontiac TA, stock heads, FAST 90, FAST 90 TB, FLP LT, off road y-pipe with cat delete, flow master muffler, comp cams 54-457-11 223/231-610/617-112 LSA, Pro charger D1SC with FMIC @ 8psi, FROST tune, VIG 3200 stall, built 4l60e, snow meth kit, MOSER 12 bolt 373 gears, Derale 13900 trans cooler.
08-06-2015, 04:49 AM #5
If you can buy a car with an aftermarket rear already in place you are money ahead of the game even if the asking price is a couple grand above book. In cases like this the seller definitely can expect some return on his investment. You simply can't buy a car at book value and then drop coin on an aftermarket rear and come in under the price he is asking for the car.
It's the other little cheap add on things that are personal taste you don't get money back on, and this car has a lot of that too.
You will rarely ever find one forsale with a 9" or 12 bolt in place. Most have 400+ HP with cam and head changes, but they just won't spend the money on a proper rearend. Those are the cars to avoid as far as I'm concerned.
If you're interested I'd take a serious look at the car in person. It likely won't last long since anyone that's been around these cars long enough knows that rearend is a huge step towards doing a car right and a big expense no one wants.
These sellers also know they can pull that rear, shove a stock 10 bolt back under the car in a couple hours and knock $2k off the price and the car will still sell. Then sell the aftermarket rear for the difference. That's what I'll be doing if I'm beat up on my price, because I know from experience I've sold a few strange 12 bolts around here and price them at $2,000 to $2,500 and they don't last 2 weeks before they are gone.
Last edited by Firebirdjones; 08-06-2015 at 04:54 AM.
08-06-2015, 09:33 AM #6
08-06-2015, 09:35 AM #7
I will say that its weird that it has an aftermarket aluminum drive shaft on it, since T56's came with a factory aluminum driveshaft standard. Does the Moser require a different length drive shaft?
08-06-2015, 09:48 AM #8
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Ugy Lower Corner of AL
Navy Blue Metallic
- 98 T/A w/a little mods...
6.0L Block - Forged 403 built, breaking it in , Polluter Stg3 Cam, FAST 102mm Intake, NW102 TB, MSD wires, NGK TR6 plugs, Truck Coil Packs, LS3 Fuel Injectors, CC Pacesetter LT Headers, TS&P ORY, QTP e-Cutout, Magnaflow Muffler, SLP Air Lid & Line Lock, Catch Can, Stage 2 T56, PRO 5.0 Shifter, Tick MC, Monster Stg 4 Clutch, QT SFI BH, MWC DSL, UMI: SFC, PHB, LCA's, LCA Relocation Brackets & TA, Hotchkis Springs (1" Drop), YR1 Snowflake Wheels wrapped in NT555 tires & Custom Fab Ford 8.8 rear w/4.10 Yukon Gears, WSQ Hood, 3"CM Strange Eng Drive Shaft.
Horsepower never lies, but is often lied about!
08-06-2015, 10:44 AM #9
And that's just another little added expense ($500-$700) when putting in an expensive rearend that People don't take into account.
Bottom line is that people don't realize what it takes money wise to do a car similar to this and do it right. Then expect to just buy one at book value? Not happening. A seller likely won't recoup all their investment, and this guy isn't with that asking price, but some of the big stuff like a 9" ford rear conversion definitely bumps up the asking price no doubt about it.
Mine for instance, I'll put a plug in here , I have a brand new $3,300 strange 12 bolt in mine, brand new $1500 exhaust system, it has a custom cam and valve train installed that parts alone total $1,000, a shop would likely double that to install it, Not to mention all the new stuff I've done like complete AC system, drilled/slotted brakes all around, and the list gets pretty long.
The car books in the $8500 range. There is no way in hell I'd sell a car with nearly $6,000 worth of very expensive aftermarket parts that everyone wants for book value. No owner in their right mind would do that. I priced the car at $10,900 and would take $10k for it as is, so you are getting $6,000 worth of parts (not to mention a damn nice car overall) for another...what....$1500 over book? That's a smoking deal no matter how you cut it, someone will get a hell of a car. I could put the car back stock and sell it all day long at book value, and just sell off the parts separate and recoup $3-$4,000. So could the new owner because all the stock parts come with the car for that price.
People that knew what they were looking at over the weekend ( was in the car corral at a local show and swap) asked questions and several took my number down, with 4 phone calls already this week. This kind of stuff don't last if serious buyers actually sit down and figure it out. Some buyers out there are just friggin greedy and want shit for nothing.
08-06-2015, 10:46 AM #10
That PST is a nice piece. I have the same one for my Moser 9".It's stock.
08-06-2015, 10:59 AM #11
FBJ - probably why I'll never sell mine. I just have way too much into it at this point and I'll likely only recoup 25-30% of those costs, if that.
08-06-2015, 11:59 AM #12
Either way for me, somethink like that wouldnt be a deal breaker or a price dropper, just a reminder that any moderate-heavily modded car needs a good eye to make sure the car was done right.
Also, there is nothing wrong for the buyer to ask for a lower sale price, the seller can still say no or make a counter-counter-offer. Remember, the car is really worth for only what it sells for, everything else is percieved or market-value.
08-06-2015, 12:31 PM #13
Yes, a 9" needs the driveshaft. 12 bolt does not.
I only buy into that whole market value or what someone is willing to pay philosophy to a certain extent. Stock vehicles....sure. When looking at the grand scheme of things, someone with common sense can easily see the cost factor vs the value of the vehicle and make a rational decision.
Was not implying that someone isn't allowed to offer something lower, that's ludicrous, but book value?? It's definitely a deal if priced slightly higher considering the circumstances, we all can use our brains here and determine that book value obviously pertains to stock vehicles and anything beyond that is buyer/seller discretion. Someone looking for a bone stocker they just need for transportation however and just wants to pay what a book says it's worth simply needs to move on to the next vehicle, because this one isn't for them.
08-06-2015, 12:41 PM #14
But I'm still not trying to recoup everything. If I were then the price on the car would be $20,000, not $10,000 on a car that books for $8500.
When you look at those numbers I'm only recouping 18% of what I spent, not even 25-30%.
Last edited by Firebirdjones; 08-06-2015 at 12:44 PM.
08-06-2015, 03:02 PM #15
Yeah, I figured even 25% was being generous. I have most of the stock parts still, except the rear end, manifolds, catalytic converters, injectors, LCAs, and PHB. Sold that stuff.
08-06-2015, 03:17 PM #16
Yeah understand, and I'm not trying to be combatant, just showing the other side of the fence that some buyers don't see (or don't want to is probably more appropriate )
We can always hope for those too good to be true deals to fall in our laps and if it did that's great, but I'd probably have a better chance of winning the lottery.
08-06-2015, 03:18 PM #17
08-06-2015, 04:48 PM #18
that 4.30 is a pretty steep gear......I bet that car has been tracked but drivetrain wise it looks like it was built for it. Not really something I would worry about too much but if you're gonna daily drive it you have to understand your mileage is probably going to suck balls.
08-06-2015, 05:28 PM #19
As far as common sense and offering at or below book value on the car, I can understand what you are saying, but it is also a fact of life. I do look at is from both sides, while all that stuff that on the car is great (at least a fair bit of it) and the person is selling it a what is slightly above book value for a stock car, I also am taking into account an amount of risk involved purchasing a peice of used machinery at face value, and would ask several questions of the owner before making a real offer. I threw the $2k value to mitigate potential risk of a modified car without getting the exact lowdown on the story of the car.
As an example, what if this car was raced fair frequently for a street car and the axle was put in 5-6 years ago with a fair bit of that 130k miles on it? Without knowing for sure, sizing up the owners possible BS factor, and getting someone in the know/ or a lift to check the car out, I ould certainly build up some risk mitigation. If there was some questionable items, and I still wanted the car, I would most certainly try and drop the price. Its up to the owner to turn it down if its not a fair and reasonable offer. If the owner doesnt want to deal with people trying to pay less, theres always $xx,xxx "firm".
And for a car like this, I am sure that there will be a butt for the seat.
Last edited by Whamhammer; 08-06-2015 at 05:36 PM.
08-06-2015, 07:50 PM #20
As a buyer you have to be able to determine those things. It's pretty easy to crawl under the car and see how clean things are, how it was installed, drive and see how it acts. Most importantly someone that has installed an expensive part like a 9" should have receipts with dates. If it was bought second hand as they sometimes are, you may have to do a little more investigating to satisfy yourself but it has no bearing with the end result of the price on the car when you think about it. Mileage isn't all that much of a concern when it comes to these rears, neither is racing all that much of a red flag. Every one of these cars has been raced at some point, and I would rather see it done with a 9" or 12 bolt than buy one with an abused 10 bolt. These aftermarket rears are pretty bulletproof for many many years and will likely outlast the car itself anyway. What you have to take into account is that if you wanted to put one in yourself, how much is that going to dent the bank account? That's the sole reason people don't do it.
What I would be more concerned about is buying one of these cars with the stock 10 bolt still in it. You know most of these cars are driven hard and put away wet, especially a 6 speed car. How much abuse has that 10 bolt taken and how much more will it take?? No way of knowing, it's a crap shoot. Part of buying a used car. All you can do is have a close look at it, grab the pinion, check for play or seepage, and cross your fingers.
A car with a 12 bolt or 9 inch however, it's much less concern. I wouldn't care if it were in there for 5-6 years and had 50,000 miles and dozens of passes on it. That sucker will live longer than I will, lol. It's really a matter of "does the buyer want to pay for that piece of mind?" If not, then a 10 bolt rear would better suit them, save your coin and take your chances.
Last edited by Firebirdjones; 08-06-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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