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Quick question...

This is a discussion on Quick question... within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; If you're gonna accuse someone of not doing their research, maybe you'd better do your own. No such thing as ...

  1. #41
    Member VTR99's Avatar
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    If you're gonna accuse someone of not doing their research, maybe you'd better do your own. No such thing as a 345 hp SLP exhaust. Base 2002 SS's had 325 hp. Exhaust (optional on SS, maybe stock on Firehawk, not sure) added 10. Hi-perf lid added the other 10 in the 345 hp package.
    The CME determined if it's the 345 hp version or NOT! Just happens one of my friend's dad is a VP at the GM Wentzville plant, and owned one of these cars.

    http://www.chevytrader.com/chevy-for-sale-1607.html

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    The CME determined if it's the 345 hp version or NOT! Just happens one of my friend's dad is a VP at the GM Wentzville plant, and owned one of these cars.

    http://www.chevytrader.com/chevy-for-sale-1607.html
    Don't care who worked where. That is incorrect. The SS had 2 optional exhausts: CME or dual/dual. The 345 hp SS's could have had either of them, and an SS with either of those exhausts that did not have the Blackwing lid was rated at 335 hp.

  3. #43
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    2002 TA WS6

    WTF does this have to do with my earlier post? I know they're underrated, never said otherwise. But GM DID overrate the difference between TransAms and WS6/Firehawks. A stock TransAm is just as likely to have 360ish crank hp as a WS6 or Firehawk. Still, if you think the WS6 has 40 hp more than a stock TransAm, you sir need to do a little research.
    No need to get offended... The stock TA does not have the SLP exhaust of the WS6, nor does it have the fresh air intake! If anything it's more likely that this combo makes more than a 15hp difference. Just pointing out the obvious.... In all cases better flow = more power.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    The stock TA does not have the SLP exhaust of the WS6, ...
    WS6 exhaust != SLP exhaust

  5. #45
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    2002 TA WS6

    WS6 exhaust != SLP exhaust
    That's what I said!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    That's what I said!
    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    The stock TA does not have the SLP exhaust of the WS6, ...
    Really?

    I interpreted your words "the SLP exhaust of the WS6" to imply the WS6 has the SLP exhaust.

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    I have it I wonder how many HP my heat extractors on my hood give me. I'll just guess 20.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by p_funk22 View Post
    I have it I wonder how many HP my heat extractors on my hood give me. I'll just guess 20.
    oh shit p funk i fell out of my chair on that one.

  9. #49
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    2002 TA WS6

    I interpreted your words "the SLP exhaust of the WS6" to imply the WS6 has the SLP exhaust.
    If you want to get technical, SLP did all the 1996 and 1997 WS6's. The last couple years SLP was contracted by ASC to do some work on the WS6. The SLP SS free flow exhaust was nearly identical to the ASC parts on the WS6, and produces 3 to 5 HP less that the Loudmouth with a lot less noise.

    This is not just my opinion, it's straight from Dave Hamburger....

    Just as an FYI, I did business with SLP founder Ed Hamburger before SLP existed. I still have a a bunch of unopened rebuild parts for a 440 purchased from Ed Hamburger sitting in my basement with the receipts from 87'.
    Last edited by VTR99; 08-26-2007 at 11:48 PM.

  10. #50
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    I go on Vacation for a week and look what happens,

    First off the OP Question was about a Formula/Trans Am model
    One of the replies was about the Vin# not being specific except to denote a V8 Firebird. That is Correct when the vin# is looked up it wil always come up as Formula/Trans Am

    The WS6 Package will show No performance gain over a base car, so don't beleive the Marketing Hype The WS6 package was available on Formulas from `96-`00 There were very little built so they are a rarity.

    The standard WS6 and SS exhaust is virtually identical to the standard V8 exhaust systems. They have a slightly less restrictive muffler and 2.5" chrome tips. 1998 cars differed cause of the Single On The Left exhaust system. which used a betterflowing muffler and a single 3.5" Chrome tip.

    The Optional SLP Exhaust was only available on SS's and was either the dual dual or CME (`01-2 only) All Firehawks come with the dual dual standard.
    These systems use a 3" intermediate pipe vs the standard 2 3/4" pipe

    The `96 -7 WS6 cars were available with optional SLP exhaust kits cause they were built by SLP. The 98-up WS6 cars were not available with any SLP options cause they were not done by SLP. Although a dealer installed setup is not unheard of, it is still Not Factory.

    The `02 345 HP package consisted of the Dual Dual or CME(Camaro only) Exhaust and a new Black Wing Lid. This package was optional on SS's but Standard on all Firehawks.
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  11. #51
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    The WS6 Package will show No performance gain over a base car, so don't beleive the Marketing Hype The WS6 package was available on Formulas from `96-`00 There were very little built so they are a rarity.
    And...

    The 98-up WS6 cars were not available with any SLP options cause they were not done by SLP.
    I suggest you contact Dave Hamburger directly instead of speaking for him, and SLP. I suspect he will have a different opinion on WS6 performance...

    A quote from Dave...

    We bid on the '98+ WS6, but were beaten by ASC for the build, but towards the end of WS6 production (the last couple years), SLP was contracted by ASC to do some work on the WS6.

    http://www.davehamburger.com/
    He can also be reached on the Firehawk message board where he is a regular contributor.
    http://messageboard.firehawk.org/ind...3f339d083e30a5

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    And...



    I suggest you contact Dave Hamburger directly instead of speaking for him, and SLP. I suspect he will have a different opinion on WS6 performance...

    A quote from Dave...




    http://www.davehamburger.com/
    He can also be reached on the Firehawk message board where he is a regular contributor.
    http://messageboard.firehawk.org/ind...3f339d083e30a5
    are you kidding me. ws6 were not done by slp. asc did the ws6. ss was done by slp. this is common knowledge. i believe for last few months of the 01' and through the 02 slp did work on some of the ws6. but thats only because asc got them.

  13. #53
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    are you kidding me.
    I guess some people would even debate the people who owned the company, and were actually there at the time! Let's see... you were 12 when they quit making these cars?

    Then you go on to contradict yourself....
    i believe for last few months of the 01' and through the 02 slp did work on some of the ws6.
    Yes, and what was it? You believe? What is your source? I have given mine, the guy who ran the company!

    but thats only because asc got them
    What does that mean?

    I admit the biggest advantage of the WS6 "Handling Package" was handling due to much stiffer springs and sway bars.... But only a fool would say there is no difference between a stock TA, and one that has a cold air intake and less restrictive exhaust. The difference WILL show up on a dyno!

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    I guess some people would even debate the people who owned the company, and were actually there at the time! Let's see... you were 12 when they quit making these cars?

    Then you go on to contradict yourself....


    Yes, and what was it? You believe? What is your source? I have given mine, the guy who ran the company!



    What does that mean?

    I admit the biggest advantage of the WS6 "Handling Package" was handling due to much stiffer springs and sway bars.... But only a fool would say there is no difference between a stock TA, and one that has a cold air intake and less restrictive exhaust. The difference WILL show up on a dyno!
    Not to start a flame war but Dyno's are tools for tuning Nothing more. Unfortunately too many people use them as bragging rights
    The WS6 exhaust is only slightly less restrictive cause it uses the same size pipe as the standard cars but a better muffler and different tips
    Also any `97 and later factory installed SLP exhaust kit is restricted because of the Cone of Silence. So all Hawks and SLP Exhaust optioned SS's have it.
    The Ram Air setup has baffles that resrict the airflow and is not sealed therefore it is not true Ram Air. Even with baffles removed the system only shows a marginal gain.
    I have a debaffled Hood and it didn't add anything except in the looks dept.
    The WS6 suspension was changed in `01 it no longer came with the 1LE springs that the earlier models had.
    Most of this is common knowledge to the LS1 community.

    I bought my car new in `98, and ordered it without the WS6 package.
    Even then I knew there was No Real Performance gain.
    If SLP did do any work on the WS6 why is it that nobody has heard of it ?
    And if they Did Name the Parts they worked On.
    Last edited by 9T8W66; 08-28-2007 at 05:56 AM.

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    Cone of silence sounds like some dangerous area in Iraq or something.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    Let's see... you were 12 when they quit making these cars?
    yea and my grandma was 71.... wtf does that have to do with anything. lord knows common knowledge doesnt mean squat right? your bordering on ridiculous. because of the build tolerances with the ls1...saying you will see the diff on dyno means nothing. a stock t/a could dyno higher then a ws6 and occasionally do..and yea...thats common knowledge too. but go ahead and believe gm's marketing hype. the gains if any are very very small..barely any if at all...deff not what gm claimed.

  17. #57
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    yea and my grandma was 71.... wtf does that have to do with anything. lord knows common knowledge doesnt mean squat right? your bordering on ridiculous. because of the build tolerances with the ls1...saying you will see the diff on dyno means nothing. a stock t/a could dyno higher then a ws6 and occasionally do..and yea...thats common knowledge too. but go ahead and believe gm's marketing hype. the gains if any are very very small..barely any if at all...deff not what gm claimed.
    Well your argument sure sounds like little kid logic.... What you are saying is that known performance mods, and real world ways of measuring HP mean nothing.... You should look at what your saying before accusing me of bordering on ridiculous! One thread has everyone agreeing that changing the air box lid is good for 10hp, yet you are saying that a fresh air intake and a better exhaust isn't good for 15....ROTFL

  18. #58
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    Not to start a flame war but Dyno's are tools for tuning Nothing more.
    Simply not true. Dynos are designed specifically to measure HP, and if the same equipment is used to measure differences under the same conditions they are very accurate devices. On another thread we have claims of 10 hp for the better lid... A bit hard to believe, but in my many years of racing experience the exhaust alone on the WS6 should be good for 15 hp. Listening to a stock TA which I previously owned a 99', and my 02' WS6, the difference is huge.

    The WS6 suspension was changed in `01 it no longer came with the 1LE springs that the earlier models had.
    Also, I don't know what brand of springs I have, but the suspension on my 02' is far, far stiffer than my 99' was. I have no idea who made the springs, but I can tell you they are an upgrade over the stock TA. They are red in color, and much thicker diameter than the dark springs on my 99'. My 99' TA rode like a Cadillac compared to the ride of my WS6. It had 10k miles when I picked it up, and the owner said he never made any changes whatsoever since the day he bought it. I would be happy to email you some photos.

    If SLP did do any work on the WS6 why is it that nobody has heard of it ?
    You mean nobody on this list seems to have heard about it, and considering the narrow-minded responses it doesn't seem like some people want to learn the truth. Apparently this is common knowledge on other boards, as one of the owners of SLP has mentioned it a few times. I suggest you contact Dave Hamburger for clarification rather than making blanket statements without knowing the facts.
    Last edited by VTR99; 08-28-2007 at 09:32 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTR99 View Post
    Simply not true. Dynos are designed specifically to measure HP, and if the same equipment is used to measure differences under the same conditions they are very accurate devices. On another thread we have claims of 10 hp for the better lid... A bit hard to believe, but in my many years of racing experience the exhaust alone on the WS6 should be good for 15 hp. Listening to a stock TA which I previously owned a 99', and my 02' WS6, the difference is huge.



    Also, I don't know what brand of springs I have, but the suspension on my 02' is far, far stiffer than my 99' was. I have no idea who made the springs, but I can tell you they are an upgrade over the stock TA. They are red in color, and much thicker diameter than the dark springs on my 99'. My 99' TA rode like a Cadillac compared to the ride of my WS6. It had 10k miles when I picked it up, and the owner said he never made any changes whatsoever since the day he bought it. I would be happy to email you some photos.



    You mean nobody on this list seems to have heard about it, and considering the narrow-minded responses it doesn't seem like some people want to learn the truth. Apparently this is common knowledge on other boards, as one of the owners of SLP has mentioned it a few times. I suggest you contact Dave Hamburger for clarification rather than making blanket statements without knowing the facts.
    I'll say it Again Dyno's Are tools. Dyno Numbers can be manipulated and all Dyno's are not created equal. I have to agree with Shady on this one most differences on a dyno can be attributed to build tolerances. In case you haven't heard all LS1's regardless of chassis make approx 345-350 HP. Trap Speed is what determines real world HP.
    Cause the more powerfull car (Dyno Queen) is not always the fastest in a Drag Race.
    As for your Springs To my Knowledge NO Factory Spring was Red in Color even the GM 1LE springs were Black. Maybe your cars Original Owner had some Dealer installed options IDK.
    And most of the people on here have been around these cars along time. Not to say you or Mr. Hamburger are liar's or anything it's just that in my 9 years of owning and researching about LS1 F-bodies this is the first I've heard of any SLP devolpment work for the WS6.
    My point is the WS6 package changed little from `98-`02
    And any changes would of been documented on here or other boards. I myself have looked a countless examples through the years and except for what I posted earlier about the exhaust (98 SOTL) and the springs(`01-2) the only other change to the package was the different Speedline wheels for late `01 and all `02 cars.

    I have no problem looking at this objectively so post some pics of your car so the rest of us can see what you are talking about.

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    Do you think Dave Hamburger's assistant at SLP is called a...Hamburger Helper?

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