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The patient is ready

This is a discussion on The patient is ready within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by MrKid Got my new mufflers today. Time for some creative welding. I'll throw these in, when I ...

  1. #241
    Senior Member Z28boy2000's Avatar
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    2000 Camaro B4C

    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    Got my new mufflers today. Time for some creative welding. I'll throw these in, when I weld the rest of the system up. I'll post a before and after vid once they're on ther.

    Click for full size
    compared to a catback how much louder are these. I have a magnaflow now with a cutout and ive been thinking about running duals but dont know about how loud they are.

    dont mean to get off topic btw

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    '68 Camaro RS, '11 Camaro

    Quote Originally Posted by Z28boy2000 View Post
    compared to a catback how much louder are these. I have a magnaflow now with a cutout and ive been thinking about running duals but dont know about how loud they are.

    dont mean to get off topic btw
    I'm still running my LM cat back. I'm installing these mufflers at the tail pipes, just to quiet it down a bit. They are single chamber race mufflers, so still pretty loud. With the LM, long tubes, and these mufflers, it still idles louder than the LM, SLP y-pipe, and stock manifolds I had on the car. And at 4000 RPM's, it's probably not legal...

  3. #243
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    '68 Camaro RS, '11 Camaro

    Okay guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I finally found the issue with my O2 sensors. After getting some advice from a tuner over at HPT, I chased an electrical issue back to the main coli pack harness and found a bunch of bad splices from the previous owner. One wire wasn't making a connection, so the cylinder wasn't firing. So...I plan on getting the car on the road today to get some fresh fuel in the tank, get some driving data for HPT, and start some dial in tuning.

  4. #244
    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Hurry up.....stop posting, and set the camera up.

  5. #245
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    Good to hear! Hopefully it wasn't too bad getting to the bad wiring -- I'm not real fond of working under the cowl on our car.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    Good to hear! Hopefully it wasn't too bad getting to the bad wiring -- I'm not real fond of working under the cowl on our car.
    Not to bad. The splice was right after the main plug to the coil rail. I'm wondering how long it's been screwed up. Very possibly the reason I was averaging about 13 mpg in stock form.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by doozjamann View Post
    Hurry up.....stop posting, and set the camera up.
    Nothing new to photograph. I've spent the past two weeks chasing electrical. Maybe i'll get a video from the road to today to prove it really does run

  8. #248
    3-Time F-Body Offender doozjamann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    Nothing new to photograph. I've spent the past two weeks chasing electrical. Maybe i'll get a video from the road to today to prove it really does run
    That's what I mean the video camera.

  9. #249
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    '68 Camaro RS, '11 Camaro

    Quote Originally Posted by doozjamann View Post
    That's what I mean the video camera.
    Gotcha. Hopefully by tonight.

  10. #250
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    Soooooo...took the car for a spin. Ran a bit rough, but then the fuel trims started to re learn from the issue I was having. (should have reset them, but forgot i could with HP) After about 10 minutes the car started backfiring, through misfire codes for 1, 3, 5 , and7, and stalled out. Left the car for about and hour and a half waiting for a tow that never showed. Finally gave up and figured I would try and limp the mile back to my house. i hit the car, car started right up, and ran buaetiful almost the whole way back. It started getting rough just as I coasted to my driveway. Couple things i found out:
    When I disabled closed loop, the car still backfired.
    When I disabled the MAF, the car still backfired.
    Timing was between 20 and 30 the whole time.
    The wires that go to my coil pack on the bank were very warm.
    here are my thoughts. It's not an air fuel issue, because it wasn't affected by the open to closed loop cycle. Plus it's only affecting bank 1.
    I'm wondering if the coil pack wires are being affected by heat soak. I haven't wrapped them on that side since fixing the bad connections. Could heat mess up current flow?

  11. #251
    LSX Tuner edgz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    Soooooo...took the car for a spin. Ran a bit rough, but then the fuel trims started to re learn from the issue I was having. (should have reset them, but forgot i could with HP) After about 10 minutes the car started backfiring, through misfire codes for 1, 3, 5 , and7, and stalled out. Left the car for about and hour and a half waiting for a tow that never showed. Finally gave up and figured I would try and limp the mile back to my house. i hit the car, car started right up, and ran buaetiful almost the whole way back. It started getting rough just as I coasted to my driveway. Couple things i found out:
    When I disabled closed loop, the car still backfired.
    When I disabled the MAF, the car still backfired.
    Timing was between 20 and 30 the whole time.
    The wires that go to my coil pack on the bank were very warm.
    here are my thoughts. It's not an air fuel issue, because it wasn't affected by the open to closed loop cycle. Plus it's only affecting bank 1.
    I'm wondering if the coil pack wires are being affected by heat soak. I haven't wrapped them on that side since fixing the bad connections. Could heat mess up current flow?
    Hey Mrkid, it's Ed from Mongillo Motors, it is not a heatsoak issue.

    Where exactly did you make the splice rapairs, in the main harness or in the coilpack harness?

    It sounds like you have a power/ground issue on the driver's bank coil pack harness. The connections need to be good enough to handle the current load of the coilpacks.

    We have new harnesses in stock so you may want to swing by and pick one up to eliminate anything in that harness.

    Or, you could also swap the coilpacks from side to side to determine if it is in-fact in that coilpack harness.

    My guess is that it is and once the car runs for a few minutes, the resistance creates so much heat that they start to fail. Hoepfully there is a thermal protection so no permenant damge is done to the coils.

    Ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgz06 View Post
    Hey Mrkid, it's Ed from Mongillo Motors, it is not a heatsoak issue.

    Where exactly did you make the splice rapairs, in the main harness or in the coilpack harness?

    It sounds like you have a power/ground issue on the driver's bank coil pack harness. The connections need to be good enough to handle the current load of the coilpacks.

    We have new harnesses in stock so you may want to swing by and pick one up to eliminate anything in that harness.

    Or, you could also swap the coilpacks from side to side to determine if it is in-fact in that coilpack harness.

    My guess is that it is and once the car runs for a few minutes, the resistance creates so much heat that they start to fail. Hoepfully there is a thermal protection so no permenant damge is done to the coils.

    Ed
    The splice is before the main harness. I Just did a twist and tape for the test drive. My soldering iron died, so I'll be picking up a new one tomorrow. Some shrink tube as well. I may pick up a whole new engine harness in the future to fix the previous owners "repair". It's just not in the budget right now. The car ran great after two hours to cool off, so hopefully no permanant damage. I assume a solder joint would flow well enough to not cause future issues? Thanks again for the advice, Ed. Hopefully I can get her to your place for a final tune soon

  13. #253
    LSX Tuner edgz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    The splice is before the main harness. I Just did a twist and tape for the test drive. My soldering iron died, so I'll be picking up a new one tomorrow. Some shrink tube as well. I may pick up a whole new engine harness in the future to fix the previous owners "repair". It's just not in the budget right now. The car ran great after two hours to cool off, so hopefully no permanant damage. I assume a solder joint would flow well enough to not cause future issues? Thanks again for the advice, Ed. Hopefully I can get her to your place for a final tune soon
    Solder is a mechanical connection, NOT an electrical connection. Many people (including myself at one time) think that solder is an electrical connection and it isn't.

    What does that mean? It means that electricity does not flow well through solder, solder has a lot of resistance.

    Solder is very good at keeping copper stranded wires together if they have been thoroughly and tightley wrapped. Solder also keeps moisture from corroding that connection over time.

    I prefer to use regular red,blue & yellow butt connectors, properly crimped for the mechanical connection, then I apply liquid electrical tape over the butt connector and wires for a moisture barrier protection.

    It's easier and cheaper than the solder connection.

    Liquid electrical tape can be found at Home Depot next to the electrical tape.

  14. #254
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    The problem I had before was with the butt connector. I was going to keep the wires twisted, and solder them, and shrink tube them. If you think the butt connector is better, I'll trust you on that.

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    LSX Tuner edgz06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKid View Post
    The problem I had before was with the butt connector. I was going to keep the wires twisted, and solder them, and shrink tube them. If you think the butt connector is better, I'll trust you on that.
    The key thing with the butt connectors is having the right crimper and not over-crimping or under-crimping.

    Crimping to tight actually breaks the copper strands, to loose, well that's probably obvious.

    You need the crimping tool that is made for non-insulated connectors. The one that puts a dimple into the center of the crimp, it makes a crimp that looks like a capitol B.

    It's similar to the crimp tool used for ignition wires, just smaller.

    The twist and solder works too if you feel more comfortable with that, it is just labor intensive and it also creates lead vapor, try not to breathe that in, LOL.

  16. #256
    Moderator Cutlass's Avatar
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    They also make heat shrinkable butt splice connectors. You crimp them down then heat them up like you would with shrink tube. When you heat them up, they ooze out a glue that seals around the wires.
    You can find those at boat places like West Marine or the boat section at Gander Mountain or Bass Pro Shop. And sometimes at auto part stores.

  17. #257
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    Hmm...those sound pretty good. The closest thing we have to a Bass Pro Shop is a Cabellas. Not sure if they would have them. I'll have to look around. I like the sealing quality, even though the car won't ever see rain again.

    Haha...I just realized that this thread went from "Look what I'm building", to "Look what a piece of s**t my car is". Sheesh

  18. #258
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    Got the wire re connected today. Home Depot has sort of the connector Cutless suggested. It's Tyco brand, and has a crush ring in the center, and two wax type rings at the ends. You shrink the heat tube, and the wax ring seals the connection.

    All well and good, but that wasn't the problem. I started running into the same problem again after the repair, and found that if I push slightly on top of the main connector I get the surging. So, I un plugged it, pulled off the silicone gasket, and re plugged it. I drove about 15 miles today on rough roads at varying speeds and some WOT runs. Not even a hickup. I'm just going to by a whole new engine harness and be done with it. All my problems with the build have been do to pinched wires and bad splices. Evenually, all the repairs will come back to haunt me, so new is the way to go.

    As for the way the car is running, it seems like I have a great base tune to start with. I reset my LTFT's after the O2 was reading properly and it smoothed out right away. My STFT's are a little erratic, bouncing from -2 to 5. My LTFT's are now reading 7 equally. Not good, but fairly easy to fix.

  19. #259
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    '68 Camaro RS, '11 Camaro

    Yup...it's running better...

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rueSelT6Tc[/ame]

  20. #260
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    Sounds like someone kicked your car in the nuts... mean as hell!

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