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Manual vs Automatic

This is a discussion on Manual vs Automatic within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Firebirdjones I went back to the stock (optional or factory) hurst shifter. I had the billet plus ...

  1. #101
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I went back to the stock (optional or factory) hurst shifter. I had the billet plus aftermarket Hurst shifter for a while, but my wife didn't like it, and it got real notchy with that.
    I drove a few with the pro 5.0 shifter, and thought that it might be better, but I can't be sure. And the ultimate decision would go to the wife. So I just play it safe and leave it be rather than spend $200+ on another shifter only to maybe pull it back out too

    I can do well enough at the track with the factory hurst though. I found the biggest improvement in the transmission was an adjustable master cylinder, but it's still not how I would prefer it to shift.
    I wish I would have shelled out for a adjustable but I didn't I'm gonna try the 5.0, hope it doesn't disappoint me.
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    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    I wish I would have shelled out for a adjustable but I didn't I'm gonna try the 5.0, hope it doesn't disappoint me.
    i put a pro 5.0 on mine--- it shifts nice. 3rd is always where it's supposed to be i i find myself hunting 4th now

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    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    i put a pro 5.0 on mine--- it shifts nice. 3rd is always where it's supposed to be i i find myself hunting 4th now
    So on a scale from 1 to 10 where do you put this shifter?

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    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    So on a scale from 1 to 10 where do you put this shifter?
    well.. i only have trouble with 1 gear out of 6... so that's 16.6%..

    so that makes it an 8.4 out of 10.

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    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    well.. i only have trouble with 1 gear out of 6... so that's 16.6%..

    so that makes it an 8.4 out of 10.
    I like how you break that down After I get my tires, this is my next mod

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    i put a pro 5.0 on mine--- it shifts nice. 3rd is always where it's supposed to be i i find myself hunting 4th now
    Hmmm, the aftermarket Billet Hurst I had was the same way. It seemed like the 3-4 gate was not lined up properly. The side force springs they came with weren't that strong either, so I found myself making sure I had side pressure on the shifter to find 4th, or it would hang in the neutral gate.

    I would have liked more spring pressure, which would have made finding 3rd easier too, but why the 3-4 gate wasn't in alignment boggled me...and it drove my wife nuts. That and the fact that there is no insulation boot so it was much noiser. Only thing I really liked about it was the shifter stops.

    Went back to the stock optional Hurst. It has more tension on the side play so it pops over to 3rd extremely easy. Biggest thing though, is the 3-4 gate is just fine, wife is happy again. Honestly I've found I can shift this optional Hurst just as quick as the aftermarket shifters out there and don't have any issues with it. Less interior noise is always nice too.

    Maybe at some point I'll try other aftermarket shifters out there. But what the trans really needs is to be opened up and beefed with better sliders, keys, forks and output shaft. Give me a chance to look at things and maybe take some of the notchy feeling out of it.

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    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    I like how you break that down After I get my tires, this is my next mod
    did the camaro ss come with a hurst shifter?

  8. #108
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Hmmm, the aftermarket Billet Hurst I had was the same way. It seemed like the 3-4 gate was not lined up properly. The side force springs they came with weren't that strong either, so I found myself making sure I had side pressure on the shifter to find 4th, or it would hang in the neutral gate.

    I would have liked more spring pressure, which would have made finding 3rd easier too, but why the 3-4 gate wasn't in alignment boggled me...and it drove my wife nuts. That and the fact that there is no insulation boot so it was much noiser. Only thing I really liked about it was the shifter stops.

    Went back to the stock optional Hurst. It has more tension on the side play so it pops over to 3rd extremely easy. Biggest thing though, is the 3-4 gate is just fine, wife is happy again. Honestly I've found I can shift this optional Hurst just as quick as the aftermarket shifters out there and don't have any issues with it. Less interior noise is always nice too.

    Maybe at some point I'll try other aftermarket shifters out there. But what the trans really needs is to be opened up and beefed with better sliders, keys, forks and output shaft. Give me a chance to look at things and maybe take some of the notchy feeling out of it.

    yeah it's exactly like you said

    4th doesn't seem to be straight down. more off to the side a bit and when powershifting it's hard to hit right

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    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    did the camaro ss come with a hurst shifter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    ^ I think what he means is that its awesome to have a V8 High performance car get 25+ mpg and IHO (In his opinion) modding to lose that mpg isn't for him like it is for some of us. When I did all my mods, I knew I would lose about 3-4mpg but didn't care because of the rush. While I can't comment on your classics getting 12mpg, I can top you. After my H/C, I was running so rich I was getting 9mpg for a bit
    Thank you, that's exactly what I mean! I wanted the car becasue I wanted it, obviously I didn't buy it for maximum gas mileage. But I think it gets good mileage for what it is, and I don't really want to mess with that now.

    I like the look on people's faces when I tell them I get close to 24mpg with it...everyone thinks its a V8 so therefore automaticaly a gas guzzler.

    I'm happy with the mileage I get, it's perfectly acceptable to me, and a good compromise between power and economy.

    At this point it's not really worth it to me to lose a few mpg for mods that might only equal a few tenths at the track, a place I'll see maybe 3 times a year.

    Keep in mind I drive at least 60 miles a day, 5 days a week, so it adds up quick. If I just drove it around town or on the weekends I wouldn't give a flying fawk about mileage. Although it IS nice to drive the 2 hours to the track then back again on the same tank of gas.

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    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMike View Post
    Thank you, that's exactly what I mean! I wanted the car becasue I wanted it, obviously I didn't buy it for maximum gas mileage. But I think it gets good mileage for what it is, and I don't really want to mess with that now.

    I like the look on people's faces when I tell them I get close to 24mpg with it...everyone thinks its a V8 so therefore automaticaly a gas guzzler.

    I'm happy with the mileage I get, it's perfectly acceptable to me, and a good compromise between power and economy.

    At this point it's not really worth it to me to lose a few mpg for mods that might only equal a few tenths at the track, a place I'll see maybe 3 times a year.

    Keep in mind I drive at least 60 miles a day, 5 days a week, so it adds up quick. If I just drove it around town or on the weekends I wouldn't give a flying fawk about mileage. Although it IS nice to drive the 2 hours to the track then back again on the same tank of gas.


    You could always do exhaust and intake which add power and increase fuel economy (if tuned) You get the best of both worlds then. A tune would be must after the exhaust since it tends to make them run rich. Just a thought

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    This is for badspeed 2000. What air temps and humidity did you run a 13.2 on a bonestock automatic in? I have heard these stories and I sure am not doubting you. I go to Bradenton Motor Sports where we are at sealevel but do have some thick air. I have never witnessed a bonestock car run 13.2's, Just curious what the conditions were. I have a 99 convertible and barely broke into the 13's stock. I know a convertible is a little heavier but not that much. Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post


    You could always do exhaust and intake which add power and increase fuel economy (if tuned) You get the best of both worlds then. A tune would be must after the exhaust since it tends to make them run rich. Just a thought
    Yeah, I would, but I'm broke. No money for mods.

    Although I DO run a SLP lid and FTRA (the lid is a proven piece, but as far as I'm concerned the FTRA does nothing).

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    Member Rob Mellinger's Avatar
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    I bought the B&M shifter and it is a great improvement over stock, shifts are more positive, no more missing 3rd gear, I never tried any other besides stock, I know I really like my B&M. Dont see many on here using it? Maybe the 5.0 better?
    LS6 intake,B&M short shift, Pacesetter ceramic lt, ory, umi subframe connectors, umi lca, slp lid, tr 230 cam, comp 918 springs,centerforce dual friction clutch, Frost tune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allpontiac View Post
    This is for badspeed 2000. What air temps and humidity did you run a 13.2 on a bonestock automatic in? I have heard these stories and I sure am not doubting you. I go to Bradenton Motor Sports where we are at sealevel but do have some thick air. I have never witnessed a bonestock car run 13.2's, Just curious what the conditions were. I have a 99 convertible and barely broke into the 13's stock. I know a convertible is a little heavier but not that much. Thanks
    Do you have the 2.73 rear gear? An easy way to tell, if it is still stock, is to check the driveshaft. On AT cars, a 2.73 rear has a steel driveshaft. A 3.23 car has an aluminum one. I had a 1998 Trans Am with 2.73, it was hard to stay in the 13s with that car. If I manually shifted my trans just before the rev limiter kicked in, I could usually get high 13s @ 101.x. My best in that car was a 13.69 @ 103.9, it was a good cool night, and the altitude here is ~725.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Do you have the 2.73 rear gear? An easy way to tell, if it is still stock, is to check the driveshaft. On AT cars, a 2.73 rear has a steel driveshaft. A 3.23 car has an aluminum one. I had a 1998 Trans Am with 2.73, it was hard to stay in the 13s with that car. If I manually shifted my trans just before the rev limiter kicked in, I could usually get high 13s @ 101.x. My best in that car was a 13.69 @ 103.9, it was a good cool night, and the altitude here is ~725.
    So i have a question, my car was COMPLETELY stock when i bought it, but when i put my headers on i noticed it had a aluminum driveshaft and not a steel one. Does this mean my car has 3.23 or 2.73 its a 1999 Trans am, no ws6 option.

    But as far as this goes, i hated driving my manual car in traffic, banging gears is fun when you can do it, if you can do it often. However, now driving a A4 car, ive taken to waving bye bye at the other person since that hands now free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by allpontiac View Post
    This is for badspeed 2000. What air temps and humidity did you run a 13.2 on a bonestock automatic in? I have heard these stories and I sure am not doubting you. I go to Bradenton Motor Sports where we are at sealevel but do have some thick air. I have never witnessed a bonestock car run 13.2's, Just curious what the conditions were. I have a 99 convertible and barely broke into the 13's stock. I know a convertible is a little heavier but not that much. Thanks
    My friend ran a 13.3 in his stock ws6 car thats a A4.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allpontiac View Post
    This is for badspeed 2000. What air temps and humidity did you run a 13.2 on a bonestock automatic in? I have heard these stories and I sure am not doubting you. I go to Bradenton Motor Sports where we are at sealevel but do have some thick air. I have never witnessed a bonestock car run 13.2's, Just curious what the conditions were. I have a 99 convertible and barely broke into the 13's stock. I know a convertible is a little heavier but not that much. Thanks

    My 02 SS convertable is an automatic. When it was stock down to the paper filter it ran a best of 13.70 at 102 mph with a 3,000 DA. Which was pretty typical for the weather we ran in most of the time in Ohio.
    It has factory 3.23 gears.
    I've never seen a bone stock auto run 13.2's either, not in the conditions I always ran in anyway.

    I simply started tuning it with HPtuner, played with fuel and timing just a bit. Also bumped up the 1-2 shift rpm. It was occuring at 5700 stock, I bumped that to 6150 and left the 2-3 at 5950 according to what I was logging.

    Those simple changes got me 13.40's at 104 mph. Rest of the car still stock. I still had the car running a tad rich as well. Flashing in the stock tune dropped me right back into the 13.70's.

    I later installed headers and off road Y, but kept the factory CME catback system. That only yielded a little over a tenth or so. It ran high 13.20's at 106 mph, still running the same tune and DA numbers.

    I then installed a 3,400 converter. Unfortunately I never got a chance to run it in Ohio with similar DA's. I had moved to AZ and can catch DA numbers here in the cool season of 2,000 to 2,500. So I expected MPH to be a tad higher.
    Still on stock rubber it went 12.76 at 107.71 mph on one pass before getting parked for no bar. Went a 1.90 60 foot being real easy on it. Sticky tires should get me 1.7x 60's or so and drop me in the 12.50's but I will probably never find out since the tracks here seem to be much more strict about roll bars than they did back East. Something I'm not putting in the car.
    Car weighs 3,820 lbs. with me in it. I'm 200 lbs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Do you have the 2.73 rear gear? An easy way to tell, if it is still stock, is to check the driveshaft. On AT cars, a 2.73 rear has a steel driveshaft. A 3.23 car has an aluminum one. I had a 1998 Trans Am with 2.73, it was hard to stay in the 13s with that car. If I manually shifted my trans just before the rev limiter kicked in, I could usually get high 13s @ 101.x. My best in that car was a 13.69 @ 103.9, it was a good cool night, and the altitude here is ~725.
    Quote Originally Posted by 95camaroZNC View Post
    So i have a question, my car was COMPLETELY stock when i bought it, but when i put my headers on i noticed it had a aluminum driveshaft and not a steel one. Does this mean my car has 3.23 or 2.73 its a 1999 Trans am, no ws6 option.

    But as far as this goes, i hated driving my manual car in traffic, banging gears is fun when you can do it, if you can do it often. However, now driving a A4 car, ive taken to waving bye bye at the other person since that hands now free.

    Yes, from the factory an aluminum driveshaft with automatic cars means 3.23. All 6-speed cars have 3.42 gears, and I believe they all had aluminum driveshafts.

    IMO they should have given the WS6/SS cars a 4.10 option for 6-speed cars, and a 3.73 gear option for AT cars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    My 02 SS convertable is an automatic. When it was stock down to the paper filter it ran a best of 13.70 at 102 mph with a 3,000 DA. Which was pretty typical for the weather we ran in most of the time in Ohio.
    It has factory 3.23 gears.
    I've never seen a bone stock auto run 13.2's either, not in the conditions I always ran in anyway.

    I simply started tuning it with HPtuner, played with fuel and timing just a bit. Also bumped up the 1-2 shift rpm. It was occuring at 5700 stock, I bumped that to 6150 and left the 2-3 at 5950 according to what I was logging.

    Those simple changes got me 13.40's at 104 mph. Rest of the car still stock. I still had the car running a tad rich as well. Flashing in the stock tune dropped me right back into the 13.70's.

    I later installed headers and off road Y, but kept the factory CME catback system. That only yielded a little over a tenth or so. It ran high 13.20's at 106 mph, still running the same tune and DA numbers.

    I then installed a 3,400 converter. Unfortunately I never got a chance to run it in Ohio with similar DA's. I had moved to AZ and can catch DA numbers here in the cool season of 2,000 to 2,500. So I expected MPH to be a tad higher.
    Still on stock rubber it went 12.76 at 107.71 mph on one pass before getting parked for no bar. Went a 1.90 60 foot being real easy on it. Sticky tires should get me 1.7x 60's or so and drop me in the 12.50's but I will probably never find out since the tracks here seem to be much more strict about roll bars than they did back East. Something I'm not putting in the car.
    Car weighs 3,820 lbs. with me in it. I'm 200 lbs.
    Thats pretty impressive on a bone stock car. The best I got here in Florida bone stock was a 14.05, its at sealevel but the humidity down here kills you a little. By the time I went with a 2800 converter, catbacks, air lid, tune,subframe connectors and drag radials I was down to a 13.20's. I have headers now and 373 gears but have not been to the track. My 60 ft times with drag radials was in the 180 area. I felt like I was hooking up well but the weird part is the highest mph I ever had even at 13.20 was right at 100 mph.

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