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Manual vs Automatic

This is a discussion on Manual vs Automatic within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by thomasterrible I put up a separate post to try to be proper, but no replies. Here is ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasterrible View Post
    I put up a separate post to try to be proper, but no replies.

    Here is the question, and I know that it depends on how the transmission has been serviced and used and or abused, though in this case it is a one owner adult car that seems well cared for, the shop will let me know more soon.

    But assuming everything is "average" about what is the life expectancy in miles for the 4L60E?

    I plan to start a savings account for unexpected repairs, if the tranny went bad I would consider having a Monster Transmissions 500Hp model replace it. That is a good transmission for the money I have heard.
    That is a great idea. SO MUCH better than any extended warranty.

  2. #22
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StuntmanMike View Post
    Yeah, that makes no sense to me when people say that. In what way does that compare to a stick?? It's still an auto...a faster auto yes, but still an auto.
    I believe the point is that a stalled auto will beat the shit out of a M6.

    Secondly, having a car take off like a bat out of hell is a lot funner than one that takes off like an Intrepid..

  3. #23
    None Shall Pass Knight's Avatar
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    Personally, I think these cars are built to use the M6. Nothing like driving a performance car and shifting through the gears. That being said, it really comes down to the use of the car. If it's mainly a drag car, logic dictates an A4 for consistancy. If it's a dd, it's driver's choice. If it's an occasional driver, I'd lean more towards the M6, but again it's driver's choice.

  4. #24
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    m6 is a little faster, stock to stock. and much more fun IMO

    but not everyone can shift a manual to it's full potential

  5. #25
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I own 1 of each, and the 6 speed car is my wifes if that tells you anything.

    Honestly I like either one just about the same. In my auto, it only took headers, a tune and a stall coverter to dip it into the 12.70's on stock rubber. Very little work for what you are looking for.

    And for the record, the 6 speeds in the 4th gens aren't all they are cracked up to be, but you wouldn't know it by reading stuff on this site. The output shafts are weak, (turbo 350 style 27 spline) and the shift forks suck as well as the sincro keys.
    If you abuse one for too long you will eventually be inside of it for repairs.

    Auto's are the same way, it's a crap shoot. Some last well over 100,000 miles with severe abuse on modded cars, others crap out at 50,000 miles on a bone stocker.

    My honest opinion,,,,,,,don't let the transmission be the deciding factor when buying a 4th gen. They both have pros and cons. I'm pretty much split 50/50 with either of ours, and to be quite frank, I lean more towards the auto for simplicity, consistency, and a free hand and foot is always nice too

  6. #26
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    m6 is a little faster, stock to stock. and much more fun IMO

    but not everyone can shift a manual to it's full potential
    Truest statement I've seen on here to date.

    A lot of people THINK they can drive and shift through the gears like a pro when in reality is you probably are losing a tenth or maybe even more in the 1/4 just from shifting poorly.

  7. #27
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    I don't know anyone with a 6spd that hasn't had to tear into it...and them things are expensive!

  8. #28
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I own 1 of each, and the 6 speed car is my wifes if that tells you anything.

    Honestly I like either one just about the same. In my auto, it only took headers, a tune and a stall coverter to dip it into the 12.70's on stock rubber. Very little work for what you are looking for.

    And for the record, the 6 speeds in the 4th gens aren't all they are cracked up to be, but you wouldn't know it by reading stuff on this site. The output shafts are weak, (turbo 350 style 27 spline) and the shift forks suck as well as the sincro keys.
    If you abuse one for too long you will eventually be inside of it for repairs.

    Auto's are the same way, it's a crap shoot. Some last well over 100,000 miles with severe abuse on modded cars, others crap out at 50,000 miles on a bone stocker.

    My honest opinion,,,,,,,don't let the transmission be the deciding factor when buying a 4th gen. They both have pros and cons. I'm pretty much split 50/50 with either of ours, and to be quite frank, I lean more towards the auto for simplicity, consistency, and a free hand and foot is always nice too
    I broke my 3-4 keys at only 12,000 miles. Car got stuck in 4th gear. That was fun

  9. #29
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya they are expensive (both trannys) to rebuild with good quality stuff.
    I'm not bias either way, and love to race stick cars too. I competed in UMTR for a few years. I can say that racing a stick car, if you are serious, costs serious coin. They are hard on parts, clutches, transmissions, driveshafts, rearends. But I will admit it's one of the most exciting, entertaining and fun forms of racing, the old school way.

    As far as shifting a 6 speed to it's full potential?? Well I've found the 6 speeds in stock form don't like that too well. I've power shifted ours and treated it like I do a muncie,,,,and the T56 isn't as forgiving. It won't be around long with too many runs like that.
    The hydraulic clutch systems need work to be efficient, and the fluid gets hot after a while. Mechanical linkage is still the way to go as far as I'm concerned.
    Racing one without a blowproof is another little pet pieve of mine. Don't know about the rest of you, but I like my toes. I'm a bit leary to go dumping the clutch and hanging gears with a thin piece of aluminum separating my body from flying clutch debri. Not to mention the NHRA requires a blowproof anyway for 11.99 or quicker, I prefer it on a 14 second street car, but that's just me

    With that said, I tend to be a little easier on the car when racing my wifes 6 speed. I'm a little more relaxed and comfortable racing the auto for these reasons, it's cheaper, less chance of breaking, and I don't worry about my toes.

    I could go on and on about pros and cons. Guess I look at things a bit differently, but I'm getting older too. When I was a kid I didn't give 2 shits about my feet when I was banging gears,,,,,,,, until a clutch came apart one day Scary experience.
    Now when I ride in anyone's stick car the first question out of my mouth is whether it has a blow proof. If the answer is no, and the driver starts to play around, I make sure my legs are scrunched up against the seat

  10. #30
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    A scatter shield is my next mod for this summer. I've already upgraded the DS, rear end, and transmission. I, like you, like where my feet are.

  11. #31
    Knight of Chaos xzaero0's Avatar
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    If you get the A4 be prepared for the dissapointment that everyone will show when they ask you if its a manual.

  12. #32
    LSX whore allbaugh_04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xzaero0 View Post
    If you get the A4 be prepared for the dissapointment that everyone will show when they ask you if its a manual.
    Yea, then ask em to race for money and all the sudden they shut the fuck up.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    Yea, then ask em to race for money and all the sudden they shut the fuck up.
    i remembered some dudes signature on here it goes sumthing like..."6 speeds are like 6 pack abs, just because you have 'em doesnt mean your more likely to win a fight"

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    That's not very good for your tranny. PG, Th350 or 400 it's still not very good but they can handle it, especially the downshift part, because they are looking for engine speed (controlled by a governor) and manifold vacuum to tell it what line pressure to use and at what speed to shift.

    The 4L60E OTOH, is depending on signal from the ECM to tell it when to shift and how much pressure to apply to the clutches. Unless you've programmed Torque Management out then you're probably hurting it (in the long run). If you've deleted TM and installed a shift kit then it's another matter because, although it's looking for input (OD lock up mainly) it'll do it in the same vein as a normal tranny.

    Also leaving the gear selector in OD will allow it to apply the proper line pressure to the clutches.
    yeah, i agree, in the long run, yes its not great for the a4, but its so much more fun driving it in 3rd position on the street...i like the feeling of the car "pulling"...and as far as down shifting, i only do it when i REALLY need to slow down quickly...

  15. #35
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xzaero0 View Post
    If you get the A4 be prepared for the dissapointment that everyone will show when they ask you if its a manual.
    Eh, piss on em' I buy my cars for our own enjoyment. I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post
    Yea, then ask em to race for money and all the sudden they shut the fuck up.
    Ya that's about the extent of it

  16. #36
    Member thomasterrible's Avatar
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    Ha, This thread has supported my original thoughts about it. I liked driving the M6, and I think if I were to drive the car in severe handling situations I would like having that transmission. But this is going to be my daily driver and I dont find driving a manual in heavy traffic for a couple hours any fun at all. It is really a personal choice and like I have said before the car in better condition for the same price is the one to buy. Also if I were buying a "sports car" instead of a "muscle car" I would go for the manual, in my vettes I have always had manuals, in my TA's automatics. No complaints. In my 1970 GTO with the HO 455 and the TH400 I dont find anyone making fun of it EVER...stock purchased new in 1970 and all original including paint. With the live rear axle this car is set up better to drag than to corner hard, I say this even though it is not bad at handling, when test driving the one with the manual I was driving much less aggressively than if the owner had not been in the passenger seat but it was a good 1/2 hour test drive from city to freeway and I asked to go to somewhere with tight corners, so we did, it was an area where there was a two lane road with very tight turns with a speed limit of 25mph, it had just started to rain a little so I take that in to consideration, but this car, equipped with BFG GForce tires, broke them loose going slow at 25-30 mph, I can drive so I slid the car through the turns and stayed in my lane at the same time and felt in control the entire time, but it reminded me of the limits of a live rear axle car.

    If the car I am looking at that is appearing really sweet that has the auto I will buy it, it is under 8 Grand, looks like it came off the showroom floor, new tires, leaves me a couple grand for whatever the shops inspection doesnt pick up. IF I race someone, it sounds like I will be fine with the auto and a few bolt ons. But really I am not so worried about being the fastest car on the road, there is ALWAYS a faster car, for me what is fun it so challenge 100,000.00 sports cars to a race when I am on my 10.0 second 1/4 mile motorcycle.

    That said this was a good thread and a good site. It did help me with my worries and I can get on with hopefully having the car check out and go on my first road trip.

    Thanks Much everyone whether you are for the auto or not.

  17. #37
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xzaero0 View Post
    If you get the A4 be prepared for the dissapointment that everyone will show when they ask you if its a manual.
    I couldn't agree with you more. You can see the dissapointment on my face when they tell me their car is an AT.

    I just KNEW this thread would turn into one of these auto vs. manual fights! I've never had to drive a car in stop and go rush hour traffic, glad I never have and glad I never will. I'm happy to have never had to make a car choice because of traffic concerns. I guess if I had to, I'd just buy something else for that dreaded commute and drive my street driven, manual transmission car on other days.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Truest statement I've seen on here to date.

    A lot of people THINK they can drive and shift through the gears like a pro when in reality is you probably are losing a tenth or maybe even more in the 1/4 just from shifting poorly.

    I'll agree with this...

    I said my 98 M6 FELT faster, but my first run out at the track with my 2.73 geared stock A4 '00 I beat the best time I ever ran with the M6. And as I work on the launch I continue to whittle that time down.

    I have fun with it, but I'll admit to being a lowsy stick driver.

    But like I said, faster isn't always the end all...what's more FUN might be what's really important.

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    They are only disappointed cuz they realize they will lose.

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    Senior Member bills98ta's Avatar
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    Why is my A4 fun ???

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