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Manual Vs. Auto Part 2

This is a discussion on Manual Vs. Auto Part 2 within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; this is probably a newbie question but what is a stall?...

  1. #21
    Senior Member clg82's Avatar
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    this is probably a newbie question but what is a stall?

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    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    yeah thats JUST the cam. How bout all the other stuff u gotta buy with it. Not to mention a good dyno tune thallt set u back another $500
    and your point is??
    modding is not free.
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  3. #23
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by clg82 View Post
    this is probably a newbie question but what is a stall?
    The stall refers to the point at which the torque converter fully hooks up, or "grabs", on an automatic.

    A stock stall speed might be something like 1200RPm or 1500RPM. So if you floor it from a stop, the converter will jump to that speed and then pull from there. The higher the stall speed (aftermarket ones can be anywhere from about 2800RPM to 4000+RPM) the harder you can take off, since the motor can jump into the powerban sooner. Much like launching at a higher RPM with a manual transmission. The higher stall speeds also allows the motor to better stay in the powerband during shifts. So instead of dropping, say, 1500RPM between each shift, you may only drop a few hundred RPM. It basically just allows for more slippage so the engine can stay in the powerband.

    As for the person who said a "stalled auto can never lose to a manual", I wouldn't be so cocky. Just because most guys with M6's have street tires and stock gears does not mean you are invincible. Find someone with some 4.10's, drag radials, and some good driveing abilities, and you could be in for a surprise. If the guy in the manual can drive, optimally he will win, because M6's always put more power to the wheels than autos and are inherently much more efficient. Hence why they are better from a roll and often have higher trap speeds.

    Ever heard of T56 Rebuilds?? They have an F-Body running almost 9 flat in the 1/4 with a T56. That will kick the shit out of many a stalled auto

  4. #24
    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    these threads really annoy the piss out of me. How often does this really HAVE to be discussed. M6s are fun and challengeing, A4s are simple and win drag races. HOW IS THIS EVEN A FREAKIN DEBATE!!

    How is a stall cheating? I get told nitrous is cheating. Now I get told a stall is cheating.. How about the heads/cam and DRs?? is that cheating too?
    Like Slowass said, people buy what they want and people also mod how they want.

    This is kinda like a Mustang owner telling me that I cheated in a race because my car is a 5.7 vs. there 4.6

  5. #25
    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Wesman;721243]
    If the guy in the manual can drive, optimally he will win, because M6's always put more power to the wheels than autos and are inherently much more efficient. [QUOTE=Wesman;721243]



    I dont freaking understand... YES THE M6'S DYNO HIGHER... PROVEN FACT THAT MEANS NOTHING!! A stall has nothing to do with improving your dyno sheet. A stall has to do with letting you use your power much more efficiently, thats it. A stalled auto will keep you in your powerband thus making them better for drag racing PERIOD!! About the M6s havign higher trap speeds, also true but doesnt mean faster ETs now does it? Running slicks can bring down your ET as well so does that mean running street tires is better.

    I am not an m6 hater by any means. I want one for a daily driver. I would put a wicked suspension on it and play on curvy roads and have a blast doign things that my auto cant do. Yes you have more control over your vehicle which makes the manual better for autoX and other events.

  6. #26
    Stock For Life Arrison24's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    yeah thats JUST the cam. How bout all the other stuff u gotta buy with it. Not to mention a good dyno tune thallt set u back another $500


    so basically this guys saying that if you upgrade your car without spending lots of money.... you're a cheater!

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    Member mr.yellow's Avatar
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    So is it safe to say that an auto with a stall will beat an m6 with similar horsepower in the quarter mile 9 times out of 10? How about like a mile or a 5 mile straight drag does anyone know if an m6 would start to gain an advantage or would the auto already have enough to win? What about an auto without a stall?

  8. #28
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post

    As for the person who said a "stalled auto can never lose to a manual", I wouldn't be so cocky. Just because most guys with M6's have street tires and stock gears does not mean you are invincible. Find someone with some 4.10's, drag radials, and some good driveing abilities, and you could be in for a surprise. If the guy in the manual can drive, optimally he will win, because M6's always put more power to the wheels than autos and are inherently much more efficient. Hence why they are better from a roll and often have higher trap speeds.

    Ever heard of T56 Rebuilds?? They have an F-Body running almost 9 flat in the 1/4 with a T56. That will kick the shit out of many a stalled auto
    i have ran guys with 4.10 and likewise power at the track. even with when they get a perfect launch, i out "60 them every time, they never catch up.

    9s in a manual is good, but not good enough.
    the fatsest LS1 cars are all stalled autos.

  9. #29
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juiced99ws6 View Post
    these threads really annoy the piss out of me. How often does this really HAVE to be discussed. M6s are fun and challengeing, A4s are simple and win drag races. HOW IS THIS EVEN A FREAKIN DEBATE!!

    How is a stall cheating? I get told nitrous is cheating. Now I get told a stall is cheating.. How about the heads/cam and DRs?? is that cheating too?
    Like Slowass said, people buy what they want and people also mod how they want.

    This is kinda like a Mustang owner telling me that I cheated in a race because my car is a 5.7 vs. there 4.6
    these threads are annoying but i im rather tired of manual owners going on and on about how great their cars are and how boring autos are.

  10. #30
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    A stalled automatic is a fun car to drive.

  11. #31
    Slower Than a 3rd Gen juiced99ws6's Avatar
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    I think mine is a blast to drive.. but I wasnt going to argue that point and open that can o worms haha

  12. #32
    Member BURNEM's Avatar
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    I've had a M6 and now a stalled auto. The auto is more consistant at the track and really pulls better numbers down low and as final ET's.
    A point that was not mentioned even though your comparing the same power cars auto vs stick. Most autos still have TQ management that kills 40% of torque between shifts while the M6 doesn't. The autos still pull it out. I dropped my built 4L60E for a Th400 with same 4000 size stall minus TQ management with a vaccume trans and that dropped my times even more, with a heavier trans.

  13. #33
    last of the breed... urstolendesire's Avatar
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    dude, wtf. i didn't mean lets argue about it and get pissed off...lol. We all got baddd asss cars that most people drool over as you drive by. the f-body is an amazing machine that can easily stomp most cars in town. lets get off the computer and go kills sum pricks that think there import can kill an f-body.

  14. #34
    Slow'er'Ass Mr. Luos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urstolendesire View Post
    dude, wtf. i didn't mean lets argue about it and get pissed off...lol.
    No one is getting pissed off.
    Just having a debate is all.

  15. #35
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.yellow View Post
    So is it safe to say that an auto with a stall will beat an m6 with similar horsepower in the quarter mile 9 times out of 10? How about like a mile or a 5 mile straight drag does anyone know if an m6 would start to gain an advantage or would the auto already have enough to win? What about an auto without a stall?
    In the 1/4 mile it comes down to driver and mods. Anything can happen.

    In a 1 mile or 5 mile (wtf?) race the M6 would most likely win if both had the same mods. Autos start to lose ground to M6's after the 1/4 mile because of parasitic losses and gearing.

    An auto without a stall will get beat up on by anyone who knows how to drive an M6. Stock or modded.

  16. #36
    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImportKiller24 View Post
    so basically this guys saying that if you upgrade your car without spending lots of money.... you're a cheater!
    did i say that, or are u pulling shit outta ur ass. All i said was i ahve yet to see another mod withing the same price of a stall give the same results as far as performance goes. If you ever cammed a car, you would know what goes into it. Youll need full bolt ons just to get that thing breathing. How about all the other hardware with it, retainers, lifters, seats, seals, locks pushords etc... A DECENT cam package is wut $800-$1000?? A decent stall is waht $400??

  17. #37
    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    these threads are annoying but i im rather tired of manual owners going on and on about how great their cars are and how boring autos are.
    well we wouldnt have said anything if you didnt say "its simple, a stalled LS1 is unbeatable"

  18. #38
    The Bandit Wesman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    well we wouldnt have said anything if you didnt say "its simple, a stalled LS1 is unbeatable"
    Exactly.

    Acting cocky like that will get a rise out of people. Especially when its not even an accurate statement.

  19. #39
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wesman View Post
    Exactly.

    Acting cocky like that will get a rise out of people. Especially when its not even an accurate statement.

    accurate enough.

  20. #40
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    did i say that, or are u pulling shit outta ur ass. All i said was i ahve yet to see another mod withing the same price of a stall give the same results as far as performance goes. If you ever cammed a car, you would know what goes into it. Youll need full bolt ons just to get that thing breathing. How about all the other hardware with it, retainers, lifters, seats, seals, locks pushords etc... A DECENT cam package is wut $800-$1000?? A decent stall is waht $400??
    this thread is about M6 vs. A4, you made a point about how much items cost.
    some of us have mods cas we can, some of us dont.
    hot rodding isnt cheap.

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