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ls1 vs STI???

This is a discussion on ls1 vs STI??? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by CamaroRacer101 Don't know if you know this or not, but according to kelly blue book they actually ...

  1. #181
    Senior Member Street Lethal's Avatar
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    2009 Corvette ZO6

    Quote Originally Posted by CamaroRacer101
    Don't know if you know this or not, but according to kelly blue book they actually weigh a hundred pounds more than your car stock! So with your 350 under that hood your still lighter than that bulky AWD system!
    That really doesn't mean anything though. Say, for instance, you have two identical looking flywheels. One of them, a low inertia one, concentrate's it's weight in the center of the piece, whereas the other, a stocker, on the outer. Remember now, both are practically the same weight, but the low inertia piece will help the engine rev a great deal faster...

    Although a completely different scenario of course, the same principle applies though. The weight is in the "right" place benefiting the STI's launch. The highway, however, that very same weight has become it's ball and chain.

    Quote Originally Posted by CamaroRacer101
    Your right though they kill off the line, just because they can rev to like 6k rpm and then drop it... It's not true for all AWD cars though... I've also raced a late model VR4 3000GT off the line, and he did rev it to like 6k, and I still had him off the line...
    Exactly. There has to be a happy medium, even with AWD cars. The "Hairy Olds", from the 60's, was a twin engine, AWD behemoth. You would think that the AWD (w/slicks), would plant that ludicrous power to the pavement, but it didn't. Six times out of ten, that car ended up everywhere but the finish line!

    ... balance, is everything.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamaroRacer101
    well a friend of mine and I raced a couple of weeks after I got my '02 z28. He had an '04 STi, he had a boost controller, took off his muffler and had an aftermarket blow off valve (don't think that adds to any HP, just saying what he had...) he had the boost pushed up about 5 or 6 PSI over stock... from what I've heard you get 10hp gain for every 1 PSI of boost... I don't think so....
    I know you're just explaining what you experienced, but your friend basically made his car slower. A BOV on a STi causes it to run extremely rich in between shifts, causing a little bog each time you shift. The stock STi system uses a BPV, which recirculates the air back into the system. BOVs are not required until you get a bigger turbo and start pushing serious PSI.

    As for the boost controller, that's one fast way to kill a STi engine. Not only that, but turning up the boost like that gives the STi fits and the ECU will absolutely kill timing. Plus he would have probably hit fuel cut. So your friend did everything he could to make his car slower.

    Don't get me wrong, I really don't think a STi could take a LS1 Camaro from a roll without a little work. One of the only things that worries me about dragging the STi are the axles. With a hard enough launch, i.e. 5.5-6k clutch dump, you run the risk of snapping a half-shaft. But there are better launch techniques than dumping. Some people have over 200 passes on their stock clutch and axles, with no problems. The 6spd in the STi is damn near bullet proof and has been proven to hold well over 600whp/wtq.
    Last edited by Fiend; 05-16-2006 at 05:47 PM.

  3. #183
    Senior Member Street Lethal's Avatar
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    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiend
    I know you're just explaining what you experienced, but your friend basically made his car slower. A BOV on a STi causes it to run extremely rich in between shifts, causing a little bog. The stock STi system uses a BPV, which recirculates the air back into the system. BOVs are not required until you get a bigger turbo and start pushing serious PSI.

    As for the boost controller, that's one fast way to kill a STi engine. Not only that, but turning up the boost like that gives the STi fits and the ECU will absolutely kill timing. Plus he would have probably hit fuel cut. So your friend did everything he could to make his car slower.

  4. #184
    NY Representative Vertiviper's Avatar
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    When i ran my buddies STI it was basically a driver's race. My 99 T/A is close to stock, his STI had an exhaust and it was a fair drivers race. He had a great launch and by 60mph i caught up ..when i was at 80-90ish he fell behind just as fast as he took off...but there's tons of variables when you compare these two cars..but..put simply launch vs top end...in the meantime don't knock the STI....i love my LS1 and i still respect the STI for what it is, aint nothin wrong with that...we arn't top fuel drivers..though many people on this message board think they are, lol,. it's all good.


  5. #185
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    Sti Vs Ls1

    They are all right. The STI will kill you off the line. I ran one on the highway starting at 40mph he had a aftermarket Turbo and tuning and full EX. I have 01 T/A M6 /flowmaster ex and k&n airfilter and the first time we went at it I droped it in to 2nd and pulled for a sec and looked next to me and his front end was at the back of my driver door. Then the 2nd run from 40 he put his tuning to stock on the turbo or so he said. And I got him by 2-3 cars then after I hit 100 I just kept pulling on him. wanted to race him from 0mph but we could not because of trafic. I know it would kill a T/A off the line but they have to shift out sooner so you sould be passing him right befor you shift out of 2nd in to 3nd. every time I saw him shift he had to shift out way to soon and thats when I started to pull alot. But The STI is a bad little car hands down.
    Last edited by 1band1t-MS; 05-24-2006 at 12:35 PM.

  6. #186
    My buddy has an 2002 Camaro SS SLP M6 that he bought brand new from the dealer with every option except traction control. He has an incredibly short shifter, nice eibach springs all the way around, and bad ass Z rated tires. He also has the 500 dollar clutch that has like...zero play in it..its either on or off. I've got respect for the STI for what it does, but dayam, when I drive that SLP and I stab the throttle and spin a perfect donut..aint nothin like it. He has the slips to prove 12.6 seconds...very light and skilled driver...like 150lbs.

  7. #187
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    He has the slips to prove 12.6 seconds...very light and skilled driver...like 150lbs.[/QUOTE]

    Its no doubt fast but i doubt hes pulling a 12.6 bone stock. Hes got something under the hood. My friend is a decent driver and with his 01 ss (slp loudmouth, KOOKS,TB,Lid,tune,drag tires) managed to pull a 12.76, im not saying its not possible, it doesnt take much to put a WS6 or SS in the 12s, but not with a stock car.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiend
    I didn't think stock LS1s trap over 103-104? Most stock STis are about 101-102. I'd still definitely give the nod to the LS1 from a roll though.
    My LS1 trapped 108 stock and ra easy low 13's all day with crappy launches.

    As far as the LS1-sti stock for stock debate there are alot of factors.

    STi's are nasty little bastards off the line and thats where they get all their work done. At my local track the average time for one is low 14's and this aint no joke. Put a good driver behind the wheel of a good running stocker and mid 13's are pheasable but they usually trap between 99 and 102.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by BLKbandit98
    He has the slips to prove 12.6 seconds...very light and skilled driver...like 150lbs.
    Its no doubt fast but i doubt hes pulling a 12.6 bone stock. Hes got something under the hood. My friend is a decent driver and with his 01 ss (slp loudmouth, KOOKS,TB,Lid,tune,drag tires) managed to pull a 12.76, im not saying its not possible, it doesnt take much to put a WS6 or SS in the 12s, but not with a stock car.[/QUOTE]
    With a stripper car that traps high and a 6k RPM launch with drag radials that didnt kill the rear end and a 12.6 isnt impossible but Im gonna agree with you and say it isnt likely.I had enough trap speed in my stock LS1 to hit 12's but GM didnt put the best rear end for the job in these bad boys so to pull the necassary 60ft time would require more then the stock 10 bolt would be down for.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by 1band1t-MS
    They are all right. The STI will kill you off the line. I ran one on the highway starting at 40mph he had a aftermarket Turbo and tuning and full EX. I have 01 T/A M6 /flowmaster ex and k&n airfilter and the first time we went at it I droped it in to 2nd and pulled for a sec and looked next to me and his front end was at the back of my driver door. Then the 2nd run from 40 he put his tuning to stock on the turbo or so he said. And I got him by 2-3 cars then after I hit 100 I just kept pulling on him. wanted to race him from 0mph but we could not because of trafic. I know it would kill a T/A off the line but they have to shift out sooner so you sould be passing him right befor you shift out of 2nd in to 3nd. every time I saw him shift he had to shift out way to soon and thats when I started to pull alot. But The STI is a bad little car hands down.

    I beat a few stockers in my m6 LT1 when I owned it from a roll with ease.

    Never had the privelage of racing one in a stock LS1.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by ScrapMaker
    fixed it for you... I've never heard of anything close to that on street tires...

    99 LS1....13.3 on street tires BONE STOCK 2.2 60's.

    You dont need to fix this one its 100% correct.

  12. #192
    [QUOTE=nhraformula]lt1s are 14 seconds cars.
    QUOTE]



    Not trying to be an ass but I hate this statement. Lots are but not all of them. I have seen some stock LT1;s run mid to high 14's wich makes me sick but......

    I have owned 4 LT1's and only one was a stock 14 second car. The other 3 ran 13's stock 3:23 95 auto:13.9@98
    stock 95 m6 13.9@100
    97 ta with CAI and STOCK 2:73's:13.701@102 the 97 was actually missing during that run and I have it on tape if there are any doubters. Talk about a freak! I added the CAI the day I took it to the track. car was 100% stock and unmolested before hand. rear end was making some noise though.

    Now my stock 94 was a frickin slug for some damn reason.
    14.5 had the same mechanical setup as my 97 except it was a single cat car.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by robb4964
    99 LS1....13.3 on street tires BONE STOCK 2.2 60's.

    You dont need to fix this one its 100% correct.
    13.3 != 13.1

    I've heard of 13.3 before... never any lower... and almost no one actually gets those times stock... almost everyone at the track with an SS or WS6 was getting 13.6-14.3... the ones that were faster were typically older 4thgens that had obviously been modded.

  14. #194
    on my buddys 02 SLP SS (real SLP not just some mods here or there, which means corvette everything, from axles,wheels and tires to suspension to engine) Centerforce Stage 3 clutch....also has 3.73 rear end.

  15. #195
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sero_TT
    on my buddys 02 SLP SS (real SLP not just some mods here or there, which means corvette everything, from axles,wheels and tires to suspension to engine) Centerforce Stage 3 clutch....also has 3.73 rear end.
    ou might wanna clarify what your intentions were here, cause you didn't say anything.

    And SLP doesn't mean corvette anything. If he told you it means corvette axles etc he's a liar. Here's a bit of info for you, corvette's don't have a solid rear axle, camaros do, so tell your friend to go jump off a bridge. The engine is the same in the first place, the wheels and tires weren't the same, not even one set. Did I mention you should tell your friend to go jump off a bridge?

  16. #196
    Yeah I told him to go jump off a bridge... he said you first lol. My question is : Is it possible to run a 12.6 (his best time ever and I have seen the slip, not a copy either) with 3.73's and m6 on an 02 SS SLP? He IS a great driver and very light (150lbs) Want to see the car in action? http://www.jpfarrell.net/videos_ss.html Watch the airport vid...bad ass donuts until the tire explodes. Get back to me on the vids.

  17. #197
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Anything is possible. Hundreds of thousands of other people that own the exact same car aren't running 12.6s with a stock M6 with gears that barely differ from the stock 3.42s. Those aren't stock 2002 SS rims they are from the earlier years, either they have been changed or it isn't an 02. I hope to god he hates his car and sold it the day he did those donuts. Any of us can do that, but we actually like our cars, and we like our rear ends in one piece. He really should go jump off a bridge. He should take that piece of shit with him. I know I wouldn't even wanna own it anymore after knowing it held 6500 rpm for two minutes straight. I still can't get over:
    real SLP not just some mods here or there, which means corvette everything, from axles,wheels and tires to suspension to engine
    that crap may fly with high school ricers who don't know shit, but some of us aren't idiots

    I'm not flaming you, just your friend. Be advised to take everything he says as BS, and don't respect his car anymore.

  18. #198
    yeah thats why i was wondering if that car was worth it for the 16k he was asking for it... The track vid shows him totally stock...running a 13.3 as has been quoted by many memebers of the site. I wasnt too privy to the actual specs of an SLP SS and hadnt bothered to check his accusations. I stand corrected and thank you for enlightenment... I am not in highschool (lol!), and having never owned an ls1 or bothering to look up the specs, I should be allowed to be ignorant until otherwise corrected. I am positive it is an 02, he has the original window sticker b/c he is the original owner...bought it from the dealer with every option save for traction control.

  19. #199
    on a side note...your saying his car is junk b/c it held that rpm for so long? He replaced the rearend since then...I only ask b/c I was thinking of purchasing it.

  20. #200
    Keeping with the thread topic, I would like to know what has the greatest build potential FOR THE MONEY between the ls1 and the sti. I have looked at many turbo upgrade kits for the STI and bolting in new up pipes and downpipes and bigger turbos seems like it could be done in the garage at home, and the STI's motor has already been worked to deal with boost. If I were to go LS1, I am definitely doing atleast a single turbo, if not the TT kit. This car will be a daily driver, and its practicality is definitely a consideration...cant exactly seat 5 in an F-body legally, and there is more "trunk" room. I have two 12's that will go into either car, and I think they will sound great in the LS1 b/c of the hatch setup...and I hate rattling trunk lids on other cars. They should offer the STI without that park bench of a wing on it...damn thing looks like its cleared for takeoff LOL.

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