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Lowered?

This is a discussion on Lowered? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; So, I bought the car with it lowered already I was told. After looking on this site, the wheel clearance ...

  1. #1
    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Lowered?

    So, I bought the car with it lowered already I was told. After looking on this site, the wheel clearance definitely seems smaller comapred to stock and I've gone under it and tried to see what the situation was but it looks to me to have the stock springs/struts/shocks. They're orange and have stickers, and aftermarket ones are generally red or black right? Or perhaps red or yellow? Black I think is the color of LCA's and things of that nature most people get. Regardless, everything looked stock but I'm pretty sure it IS lower than normal. A closer look and I noticed it has relocating brackets for the LCA's. I only looked on the rear, and it was in the bottom hole. I'm assuming it has the same thing done up front too though. Judging by these pictures, do you think the car has anything else to make it as low as it is or would a set of brackets for the LCAs do this? And on that note, would a new shock/strut kit, eg eibach (spelling?) pro kit or any varient make it even lower? I can't imagine scraping more than I do o.O. Apperciate it fellas.
    P.S.
    I know I need tinting, new rotors and it's dirty. DD and the garage in the new house isn't totally cleaned out yet. I gotta share it with the lawn mower and stuff so...
    ~Anthony


    Last edited by Ant71130; 05-26-2011 at 05:36 AM.
    2002 Black/Ebony M6 WS6: Lid, Filter, Smooth Bellow, P&P TB (!Bump Stop), Magnaflow Cat-Back (dumped after the axle), 4.10s, Hypertech ME Tune, eibach springs 4/4, LCA relocating brackets, PHB, free mods, 17" TTMs.

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    Last of the Breed j nix's Avatar
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    Orange shocks are most likely the stock shocks and struts. From the pictures it deffinately looks lowered. They probably left the original shocks on and just used lowering springs, LCA relocation brackets, adj PHB to center the rear wheels and maybe some other optional suspension parts. You might find they put in a new torque arm as well. But they might not have if they didn't even change the shocks.
    Diablo Sport Predator Performance Tune | TB Bypass | Bilstein HD Shocks | Eibach Pro Kit | UMI SFC | UMI Rear LCA's and brackets | UMI adj PHB, UMI Front/Rear Sway Bars |UMI Strut Tower Brace | SLP Lid | SLP Loud Mouth with quad tips | High output alt

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j nix View Post
    Orange shocks are most likely the stock shocks and struts. From the pictures it deffinately looks lowered. They probably left the original shocks on and just used lowering springs, LCA relocation brackets, adj PHB to center the rear wheels and maybe some other optional suspension parts. You might find they put in a new torque arm as well. But they might not have if they didn't even change the shocks.
    The TA is definitely stock, weird.. factory looking and still mounted on the trans. The PHR looks pretty stock too. 'Flimsy' is the word people used to describe it right? Heh. I didn't really take a good look at the springs. They just look like springs so, not that I know too much about how to identify them anyway. But you think it has more than just the brackets?

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    She-Member jrbonds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ant71130 View Post
    The TA is definitely stock, weird.. factory looking and still mounted on the trans. The PHR looks pretty stock too. 'Flimsy' is the word people used to describe it right? Heh. I didn't really take a good look at the springs. They just look like springs so, not that I know too much about how to identify them anyway. But you think it has more than just the brackets?
    Is there not anyway you can crawl up under it and take some pictures? That would be really helpful.

    My eibach springs are black with no tell tale signs, but "eibach" is stamped on all four, but in different locations on each spring.
    Last edited by jrbonds; 05-26-2011 at 08:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    They could have easily just cut the springs or used the hose mod to lower it 3/4".

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    They could have easily just cut the springs or used the hose mod to lower it 3/4".
    Hose mod? I guess I'll have to look.

    Is there not anyway you can crawl up under it and take some pictures? That would be really helpful.
    And no, sorry but since I moved down here, not really my house and I don't have any of my tools with me. There's no jack stands or anything and barely enough room to even fit the front end in the garage. I can't jack it up on dirt so... it makes working on anything really difficult for me until later in the year .
    The shocks and what not are def oem though.

  7. #7
    She-Member jrbonds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ant71130 View Post
    Hose mod? I guess I'll have to look.

    And no, sorry but since I moved down here, not really my house and I don't have any of my tools with me. There's no jack stands or anything and barely enough room to even fit the front end in the garage. I can't jack it up on dirt so... it makes working on anything really difficult for me until later in the year .
    The shocks and what not are def oem though.
    You can wiggle under there enough to take pics, especially the rear. You can also just get the camera under there at certain angles.

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbonds View Post
    You can wiggle under there enough to take pics, especially the rear. You can also just get the camera under there at certain angles.
    I tried. This is what I got so far. It started to rain/hail on me so =/. Got all wet lying on the ground too


    PHR, right?


    TA?




    Rear LCA and Bracket. Doesn't look like it's in the bottom hole huh? I could have sworn it was... Unless I'm looking at the wrong thing.






    That's all I could do. Help/reassure anything?
    Last edited by Ant71130; 05-26-2011 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I can't see the pictures because I am at work, but your LCA's have NOTHING to do with ride height. They control how centered your rear end is (wheel) front to back.

    PHB controls how centered your rear is left to right.

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I can't see the pictures because I am at work, but your LCA's have NOTHING to do with ride height. They control how centered your rear end is (wheel) front to back.

    PHB controls how centered your rear is left to right.
    Suppose I kinda knew that but had the wrong idea about the brackets. My bad
    . Guess to lower a car you need to take the body down, not move the lower frame parts lol Oh well.
    Hope to hear more when you cans ee the pics :P

  11. #11
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    The pic is showing for me now. The bar going from left to right is the PHB. That is the stock piece.

    The torque arm mounts to the front of the rear end center section and runs to the tailshaft of the transmission. It is located next to your drive shaft.

    That black round bar going from left to right that is beneath your PHB in your pic is the rear sway bar. That piece is also stock.

  12. #12
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    And yes, you appear to have relocation brackets for your LCA's.

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    The pic is showing for me now. The bar going from left to right is the PHB. That is the stock piece.

    The torque arm mounts to the front of the rear end center section and runs to the tailshaft of the transmission. It is located next to your drive shaft.

    That black round bar going from left to right that is beneath your PHB in your pic is the rear sway bar. That piece is also stock.
    Alright, so I was right in the pics that I typed stuff under. And yeah I thought I had those brackets, I suppose I just didn't know why? haha. So it's lowered via... springs? =/

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    Last of the Breed j nix's Avatar
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    From the angle the LCA's are sitting in the relocation brackets you can tell it has been lowered. If there were relocation brackets on and the car was not lowered, your LCA's would be pointing down. The bracket are for keeping the LCA's parallel with the ground. Since there is no adj PHB, your wheels should not be centered. Take a tape measure and measure from your wheel to the outside edge of your wheel well. If they are different then that tells you the car has most likely been lowered and you want to put a new adj PHB in. It is very easy to do.

  15. #15
    Last of the Breed j nix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ant71130 View Post
    Alright, so I was right in the pics that I typed stuff under. And yeah I thought I had those brackets, I suppose I just didn't know why? haha. So it's lowered via... springs? =/
    Yes lowered by springs. Most people replace the shocks at the same time, so I am assuming they weren't bad at the time.

  16. #16
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    You do not want the LCA's parallel to the ground. You want the portion of the LCA that connects to the relocation bracket to be lower than the front. You could put them in the next lower hole. That would help with getting more traction. Your current control arms are the stamped metal ones, which are stock pieces.

    The pan hard bar is what is supposed to be parallel to the ground when the car is loaded. It keeps the rear end centered from left to right and stabilizes the car from swaying back and forth as mentioned.

    Those orange shocks are the stock shocks and are Decarbons.

    And yes, you have everything identified correctly.

    For some reason, only the one picture showed for me while I was at work. I can clearly see them all now.

    You look like you have stock springs also though. I could be wrong though...

    Lastly, at stock height, our cars favor the driver side as far as how the rear end is positioned (centered). When the car is lowered, is favors the driver side even more. Hence this is why most people who lower their car also get an adjustable pan hard bar to be able to re-center the rear end from left to right.

    Let us know if you have any more questions.

    I would try to look at the spring perch and see if the hose mod was done because I don't see aftermarket springs on your car, but it definitely is sitting low.

    How does it ride????

  17. #17
    Last of the Breed j nix's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=35th-ANV-SS;2651855]You do not want the LCA's parallel to the ground. You want the portion of the LCA that connects to the relocation bracket to be lower than the front. You could put them in the next lower hole. That would help with getting more traction. Your current control arms are the stamped metal ones, which are stock pieces.[QUOTE]

    I guess I need to drop my LCA's to the lower bracket as well. I dropped my car with the Eibach Prokit, which dropped the back about 1.5". The first hole in the bracket drops the LCA's 2". It left my LCA's parallel when finished.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j nix View Post
    I guess I need to drop my LCA's to the lower bracket as well. I dropped my car with the Eibach Prokit, which dropped the back about 1.5". The first hole in the bracket drops the LCA's 2". It left my LCA's parallel when finished.
    The control arms are what holds your wheels and tires to the frame of your car and allows the wheels to go up and down when hitting bumps while staying straight and perpendicular to the road.

    The installation of lower control arm brackets lowers the rear mounting point of the rear lower control arms, modifying the vehicle’s ‘instant center’. The ‘instant center’ of the vehicle is the point at which imaginary lines drawn to extend the vehicle’s upper and lower control arms would meet. The brackets cause this imaginary point to move toward the rear of the vehicle, reducing the tendency of the rear of the vehicle to ‘squat’ during hard acceleration. Power normally absorbed in suspension compression is instead applied to the suspension mounting points, driving the rear tires downward and significantly improving traction.

    Most people will always use the lowest mounting hole. However, a few have had better luck with the 2nd hole up.

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    Member Ant71130's Avatar
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    Ok so I want to say thank you for being dedicated to the thread and all the advice. On that note, should I move the LCAs to the lower hole on the bracket? The car seems to ride fine. I mean you do feel bumps much more than say, my girl's cavalier, but that's to be expected. I do also have issues with traction, going WOT in 1st is almost impossible while keeping the car straight. Even a 3rd gear drop at 60 will cause a bark and spinning sometimes. I thought the 4.10s contributed to that though. That and the Sumitomo HTR Z IIIs. They came with the car. Not DRs by any means. So... My plans were to save up for LTs and an ORY. I really want the sound and the hp gain is pretty good. I also wanted that done so I could Dyno and tune it. But...
    Should I get an adj PHR first? Would using that money on suspension be of further importance right now? What else would make a significant difference besides a PHR? SFCs? Is a new, non trans mounted TA necessary? My shocks and struts seem in good shape. Idk if the hose mod is done, not sure what that is exactly. Regardless, where should I go from here? I'm not going to track it until the suspension AND LTs are both on it anyway so, that doesn't matter. Opinions are appreciated. Thanks again.
    Anthony

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Like I mentioned, some people have theirs in the lowest hole...some people have it in the 2nd to the lowest hole.

    The only way to see whether or not traction becomes better is to relocate it and test it.

    If you have not done so yet, get SFC's at a bare minimum. This should be your #1 priority.

    Next, an adjustable PHB. They are like $100 or so. Not very expensive and easy to install.

    The torque arm is going to be more money and isn't an absolute must unless you plan on tracking the car some.

    Your traction is always going to be limited with those tires, regardless of how well you tweak your suspension.

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