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Let's see if we can make it happen!

This is a discussion on Let's see if we can make it happen! within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I am looking at a car and want to know what i should be paying for it. it was advertised ...

  1. #1
    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
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    Let's see if we can make it happen!

    I am looking at a car and want to know what i should be paying for it. it was advertised as a 2000 WS6 but thanks to the info learned from all of you I have realized it's just a plain ol Trans am. the car has just over 10k on the clock and it seems like the book values range from 11-15k for a 2000 TA even when considering the miles. it doesn't look like it was garaged as the bird on the rear is a bit faded and i know the car was in an accident. so aside from not having the original hood the door was replaced as well.

    Given the car doesn't have the factory rims, hood or door what would you say it's worth? Where should i be heading in my negotiations?

  2. #2
    Junior Member tbaum's Avatar
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    Well first of all...even a "plain ol Trans Am" is still an awesome car. Price depends on the condition. Our cars aren't exactly collectors items yet but they will be within 10 years (providing we still have oil left) If you wrote that right and there are only 10K miles on it, you have found yourself one to hang onto. I think I put 10K miles on mine the first 2 months I owned her. The birds on the tail light trim panel fade as a rule...kinda like all of our dash pads will break..it's only a matter of time. If you can get it for under $10K you got yourself a fine deal. It's not a Vert so no need to pay $15K
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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
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    well i went to talk to them on friday and see what kind of deal i would be able to get. after some negotiation i fielded an offer of a little more than 14k. Given the nature of the vehicle and the fact that 14 fell within the book value range i felt this was fair. The dealer selling the car disagrees and would only offer roughly 300 dollars less than asking... which is just short of 17k. They claim to have offers of 16k lined up from LA, Austin and the Jersey shore. He knows what I'm willing to spend so if those deals fall through i'm sure they would call me and provide some kind of negotiating room.

    Thanks for the reply I didn't think anyone would find a 10k mile car to be worth less than book.... I'm assuming you feel this way due to the accident?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R View Post
    well i went to talk to them on friday and see what kind of deal i would be able to get. after some negotiation i fielded an offer of a little more than 14k. Given the nature of the vehicle and the fact that 14 fell within the book value range i felt this was fair. The dealer selling the car disagrees and would only offer roughly 300 dollars less than asking... which is just short of 17k. They claim to have offers of 16k lined up from LA, Austin and the Jersey shore. He knows what I'm willing to spend so if those deals fall through i'm sure they would call me and provide some kind of negotiating room.

    Thanks for the reply I didn't think anyone would find a 10k mile car to be worth less than book.... I'm assuming you feel this way due to the accident?
    sure they do, I was into car sales, those are lines that are pitched to people, especially for a Trans Am non ws6, I say go in there and give em a final offer if they say no, tell em to call you when theyre ready to settle and make sure you say its out the door price not sticker price, dont take any extra crap as it is useless and overpriced, even the extended warranty, so dont believe anything the stealership tells you, just give em a price if they say no, then start walking, dont go inside until they are ready to negotiate price, trust me be a hard ass, and if at all possible go in 30 min before they have to close that way they will want u out of there ASAP, good luck!

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    Member bigdaddy9911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02blackbirdws6 View Post
    sure they do, I was into car sales, those are lines that are pitched to people, especially for a Trans Am non ws6, I say go in there and give em a final offer if they say no, tell em to call you when theyre ready to settle and make sure you say its out the door price not sticker price, dont take any extra crap as it is useless and overpriced, even the extended warranty, so dont believe anything the stealership tells you, just give em a price if they say no, then start walking, dont go inside until they are ready to negotiate price, trust me be a hard ass, and if at all possible go in 30 min before they have to close that way they will want u out of there ASAP, good luck!

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    That's funny because both times i went it was less than 1 hour before closing and I stayed outside with the car a good long time both times before wandering inside to talk. I still haven't driven the car yet so here's hoping there are no surprises there should I get a call soon, i did make sure he had my number as i walked out.

    The first time i went they denied a test drive which given the nature of the car i can understand. The second time I wanted to be sure they would negotiate before I took the car out for a test. No sense in putting more miles on such a low mile vehicle if i'm not even going to be able to negotiate for it.

    Trust me I won't pay a penny more than my offer. I don't want an accessory kit or yadda yadda. at 14,5 i'd be paying close to 16 anyway once the tax inspection and registration is factored in lol.

    Was there a factory SLP exhaust option? the muffler on the car doesn't look like the bullet style that comes with the loudmouth and he swears it was a 2,400 optional factory system. When i laughed and said there is no way that car passes fed noise regs he flatly responded "sure it does that exhaust is quiet"

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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R View Post
    That's funny because both times i went it was less than 1 hour before closing and I stayed outside with the car a good long time both times before wandering inside to talk. I still haven't driven the car yet so here's hoping there are no surprises there should I get a call soon, i did make sure he had my number as i walked out.

    The first time i went they denied a test drive which given the nature of the car i can understand. The second time I wanted to be sure they would negotiate before I took the car out for a test. No sense in putting more miles on such a low mile vehicle if i'm not even going to be able to negotiate for it.

    Trust me I won't pay a penny more than my offer. I don't want an accessory kit or yadda yadda. at 14,5 i'd be paying close to 16 anyway once the tax inspection and registration is factored in lol.

    Was there a factory SLP exhaust option? the muffler on the car doesn't look like the bullet style that comes with the loudmouth and he swears it was a 2,400 optional factory system. When i laughed and said there is no way that car passes fed noise regs he flatly responded "sure it does that exhaust is quiet"
    is this a pontiac dealership? even if it is, i hardly believe that they know anything about that car, ask them a stupid question just to see what they say, something like "how good is that LT1 motor?", knowing full well that it is an LS1, if they answer then you know the answer ........but we had a ws6 on the floor back when I was working for chevy and we bought it at 4k and we were selling it at 16k, so don't think that you can't lower the price to a good amount, like I said, say 14,6 as your final out the door price, out the door means, tax and license included, this isnt about the car trust me, its about who will give in first, a good salesman knows every trick in the book, and I love exposing all of them, I'm telling you just give them your out the door price and your number and tell em to call you when they are ready to sell you the car and just keep walking, they are just playing hard ball otherwise they would have sold that car by now

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    This story gets better.... they paid 0 for this car.... or so it would seem. The story goes that the car belongs to a friend of the owner of the dealership and they are doing him the favor of selling the car. This is a one owner car and it has always been in the same town in fact the dealer that it was originally purchased at is just down the street from this place so the story does seem plausible. So assuming this is true they won't simply want to "give" the car away. I'm pretty sure the car can be had for less than what they are asking since i don't think anyone in their right mind would pay nearly 17k for this car. I think i'm slightly off my rocker for even offering 14.5 for it. If i played your hardball and said 14.5 out the door price then i would say its a great deal. I figured i'd at least be paying my state taxes on the car since i live in a different state than the dealer but i've never dealt with a dealership before. i prefer cash in one hand keys in the other and i go on my merry way.

    BTW it is not a pontiac dealer and he does have some knowledge of these cars. i wouldn't call him an f-body guru but he's familiar with them.

    Another question. This time about how severe the damage to the car "may" have been. the accident occured about 6 years ago and the car has obviously been driving since then. I inspected the car myself and could find no obvious frame damage or welds etc. on the drivers door though the panel gap in the front is a slight bit narrower at the bottom than at the top. its perfect at the back of the door. Also I noticed slight imperfections in the gaps from one side of the car to the other. The question would be, are these cars built to very tight tolerances or is some degree of imperfection quite normal on these cars. I haven't inspected many in person to know myself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R View Post
    well i went to talk to them on friday and see what kind of deal i would be able to get. after some negotiation i fielded an offer of a little more than 14k. Given the nature of the vehicle and the fact that 14 fell within the book value range i felt this was fair. The dealer selling the car disagrees and would only offer roughly 300 dollars less than asking... which is just short of 17k. They claim to have offers of 16k lined up from LA, Austin and the Jersey shore. He knows what I'm willing to spend so if those deals fall through i'm sure they would call me and provide some kind of negotiating room.

    Thanks for the reply I didn't think anyone would find a 10k mile car to be worth less than book.... I'm assuming you feel this way due to the accident?
    ~$16700 for a wrecked 2000 coupe that's modified and not a legit WS6?? Don't walk, RUN from these guys. I don't care how few miles or the "story" behind the car, your offer is MORE than adequate for this car. Tell them good luck w/ those "other offers that are lined up", LOL. I'll bet you that within 5 days of you stopping talking to them they'll call you w/ a counter offer under $16K.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R View Post
    Another question. This time about how severe the damage to the car "may" have been. the accident occured about 6 years ago and the car has obviously been driving since then. I inspected the car myself and could find no obvious frame damage or welds etc. on the drivers door though the panel gap in the front is a slight bit narrower at the bottom than at the top. its perfect at the back of the door. Also I noticed slight imperfections in the gaps from one side of the car to the other. The question would be, are these cars built to very tight tolerances or is some degree of imperfection quite normal on these cars. I haven't inspected many in person to know myself.
    My 'vert was wrecked 8 years ago (T-boned, ~$6700 worth of repairs), and has more than 10K miles on it. I added SFCs after the repairs and all my panels remain lined-up perfectly. The only way you can tell the car's been repaired is the missing driver door decals. These cars are not Lexuses that you can roll a ball bearing down the gaps, but they're pretty darn good to the naked eye when put together properly.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    hmmm... ok how bout this one. just behind the front wheelwells under the car there is a short vertical tab with two bolts in it. i'd say the tab is roughly 4-5 inches long and just about an inch vertically. I noticed on this car that on both sides this piece was bent with the outside material split around the bolts. to me it looks like this is a common place for a jack to go.... when someone isn't paying attention.... but for both sides to be bent and split the same way i was wondering if it could be an indication of body work or simply a missplaced 4 point lift. my money is on the latter but who knows. I can figure simple evidence of body work, such as overspray, welds, visible filler etc. but i'm sure there are finer points that are entirely beyond me. The dealer claims the damage was limited to the drivers door and thats it. but we all know how much we trust him. I'd say my only reasons for being so interested in this car is the fact that its such low miles close to home sharp looking and, if he comes down, in my range. I really wanted a low miles 2002 WS6 6spd. but this one has the stealth box and amp and exhaust etc. so i'm willing to give up the 02 WS6 bit since it looks like one for the low mile and options bit.

    would be nice if i actually could "make this happen" but i'm sure not the end of the world if it does fall through.

    On a side note this car was originally purchased on my b-day 1999. that was the very DAY that i got my drivers license. It would be really cool to have a car that hit the road the same day i did!!!
    Last edited by LSCyaL8R; 08-12-2008 at 09:14 AM.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
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    I was just wondering. Is there any way to get a look at the accident report thtat was filed at the time the car was in an accident. The carfax says that the trans am hit another vehicle and that primarily the left side of the car was damaged. it also claims that the vehicle was towed from the scene. I'd really like to know how bad the accident was since there is nothing visible to my eye on the car now. The dealer was not very forthcoming with info on the accident. he claimed that someone backed into the drivers door and that the car was NOT towed from the scene and that the car was in fact driven into a body shop owned by the dealer the very next day. He also pulled another BS line saying that the whole door wasn't replaced... only the "skin" of the door. which is a total crock because i can see that the paint by the striker has chipped and revealed the doors "true" color... of red. this car is white. besides, correct me if i'm wrong, but it's not even possible to change just the "skin" of the door. isn't it like fiberglass or something?

    So yeah that's why i'd like to see the accident report on this car. Anyone know if it's possible?

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    The owner who had the body work done should've kept the work order from the body shop unless there was something to hide, that would be your best source of what was done to repair the body. Police accident report won't tell anything about the extent of damage (a scratch on the driver's door would be indicated the same as if it were bashed-in). Yes, it's possible to replace the "skin" on the door, but it's usually both the inner and outer "skin" (fiberglass) around the steel internal structure that is replaced. Same thing had to be replaced on mine. Check the color tag, 10U is the code for white body (81U is red). It's possible the body shop used a door from a red car to replace the bad one. But if the entire car was originally RED and has been completely repainted white, that's just another reason to stay away.

    The bent tabs under the rockers are most likely due to a poorly placed 4-point lift. I don't think that is uncommon.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag; 08-13-2008 at 09:05 AM.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    I am fortunate enough to have a copy of the original window sticker for this VIN and the car was originally white as it is today. only the door was replaced. the stickers inside the doors were all removed but still remain with the car affixed to a sheet of paper... white paint on their backing and all... low mileage one owner..... i just wish i could speak to that owner lol. there are only 3 carfax records on this car. the last record was i think in 2005. it's not possible to roll the odometer on these cars back is it? I didn't think it was common anymore but without carfax records to verify the mileage how would anyone ever know? carfax last reported mileage was 10.... as in miles ten miles. Of course that was when the car was new.

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    I would not make an offer without looking at the car first and even having a qualfied mechanic take a look at it. I mean you could make an offer which he may accept and then you will end up paying way more that the car is really worth.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    i have seen the car.... twice. both times i spent over 30 mins in around and as far under the car as i could get trying to find fault with the vehicle. Haven't really been able to find much of note on this car. it seems to be rather clean. I happen to be my own mechanic so can gather a mechanical overview with a fair degree of confidence. Only mechanical issue with the car is that it seems the shocks might be weak. no doubt due to lack of use. i'm not too concerned about that at this point, besides it perhaps becoming a bargaining point. With such low miles it is to be expected. I have a 2002 Ford focus ZTS at home with only 16k miles and its shocks died from lack of use as well.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    Navy Blue Metallic
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    Update:

    Looks like the car is now gone...... It's no longer listed on the dealers site. asking price a few hours ago was still just shy of 17k. I feel certain he wouldn't let it go for less so it would appear that either the owner didn't want to go down and decided to keep the car or someone with more money than they know what to do with accepted his price and bought the car. I'm actually a little beat up over this. I honestly wanted THIS car but could not justify the price. my limit must remain, sigh.... oh well

  18. #18
    Member Mike's TA's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you are better off that someone else got it. I don't think I would pay more than $10K for a TA that was wrecked, doesn't have original parts, and is mascarading as a WS6. Even if it only had 10K miles. Especially since the dealer was not forthcoming with the information of the wreck.

    A friend of mine just replaced his guage cluster in a silverado. The mileage afterwards read 0. He knew it would do this when he bought the white face cluster. Since that information is stored in the cluster. He will be going to the dealership to have them put the correct mileage on it, since he is honest. So there is no telling if it truly only has 10K miles or not.

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    Chief of his tribe! LSCyaL8R's Avatar
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    you are right about that..... although the distinct lack of any rust or corrosion on any of the rubber or plastic or anything else under the car would make me believe the miles are honest. At the moment I've shifted my interests to a car even closer to home... a real WS6.... a 2002 WS6.... with a lower asking price but much higher miles clocking in at 70k. Never in an accident but it seems to have gone through a TON of dealer auctions and what seems to be 4 owners one of whom had the car repossessed after 1 month of ownership..... why must these cars all have a "story" I think i'm going to go take a peek at it since its only a short drive from here. prob after work i'll head down there. If all is in order I may make an offer. they are asking 15k

    Does 15k sound good for a 2002 WS6 6spd with 70k miles? Still seems high for a 6 year old car with 70k miles. Then again what do i know they sold a nearly 10 year old car with 11k for over 16k lol

    I must also say. I really wanted something with low miles. my last car i bought with 126,503 miles on it and it still hasn't given me any heartache nearly 6 years and 40k miles later. although the fact that i could have gotten one with lower miles if i held out sticks with me to this day. I guess I fear buyers remorse spending enough money to buy a 0 mile car on something that is 6 years and 70k miles old.
    Last edited by LSCyaL8R; 08-14-2008 at 10:27 PM.

  20. #20
    Member Mike's TA's Avatar
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    Just an FYI on what I paid for mine.

    It's a 99, only had 48,000 miles, never wrecked, almost mint condition, in October I will have had it for 2 years and paid $13,900.

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