Help me decide which if these 2 Trans Am

**edforce1** · 07-13-2018, 03:51 PM

Hi all. I have bought quite a few Trans Am and Firebirds since I was 18, and pushing a few decades now since then.

Currently I'm considering the following (located in Canada):

1998 Trans Am, LS1 5.7, manual trans, 54k miles
Asking US $10,300
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...-am/1360353649
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1998 Trans Am, Ram Air WS6, manual trans, 124k miles
Asking US $8,350
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/...eed/1359234510

The first one has MAC LS1 headers and y-pipe, with Borla aftermarket exhaust. I haven't seen it up close yet, but just worried it might be too loud.

Both look awesome in photos, all black.

Just looking for some personal input from anyone out there. Is 124k miles too much for an LS1 and what would you offer in either case?

And aside from the visual enhancement, is the Ram Air/WS6 really a better option for these cars? I never had a WS6 before.

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**pajeff02** · 07-14-2018, 01:42 AM

It would be tough for me to pass on the lower mile car... that being said, so long as the higher mile car has been maintained it would not scare me away if the WS.6 is what you want.

**Whamhammer** · 07-16-2018, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by pajeff02

It would be tough for me to pass on the lower mile car... that being said, so long as the higher mile car has been maintained it would not scare me away if the WS.6 is what you want.

True, I have 183k on my WS6, and only have had to rebuild the sixspeed for bad synchros (@ 50k miles), alternator(s) because shop didn’t use delco, and cats finally died @140k.

**edforce1** · 07-16-2018, 07:52 AM

Thanks guys for the input. Personally my preference is the WS6. The the extra horsepower of the air induction system, the look of the hood, the larger 18" wheels make the car more appealing to me.

The problem I am having is that the car is in a different province. I'm in Ontario, the car is in New Brunswick. I know many people have bought cars on eBay without having been able to see them up close. This would be a first for me, and I am incredibly paranoid about it. I have seen photos and videos, they all look good. But unless you can see the car up close first hand, you just can't see every detail.

I'm thinking about arranging for a local mechanic there to have a look, which is something I like to do with local car purchases too.

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**Redphoenix1998** · 07-16-2018, 09:41 AM

Arrange for a local mechanic. I have a 98 and 98's have their own little gremlins over 99+ especially when it comes to modding but it it's going to be all stock with light aftermarket bolt on's it's alright. For myself I bent and broke pushrods at 48k and had the tranny rebuilt at 75k. Rearend rebuilt at around 80k and stupid modding at 90k.

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-16-2018, 10:04 AM

Another member of the 98 club here too.

Biggest worry on the 98's is the oil pump. 97-98 oil pumps don't like high rpms (above 6k) especially with high miles.

Believe me I know this, it may or may not be the reason I have a 403 in mine now

If you do get it, a good mild cheap thing to do is have Frost install one of his mail order tunes. He'll get it to perfection over stock tune.

**edforce1** · 07-16-2018, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Another member of the 98 club here too.

Biggest worry on the 98's is the oil pump. 97-98 oil pumps don't like high rpms (above 6k) especially with high miles.

Believe me I know this, it may or may not be the reason I have a 403 in mine now

If you do get it, a good mild cheap thing to do is have Frost install one of his mail order tunes. He'll get it to perfection over stock tune.

Thanks for the tip.

I got an honest mechanic in the area to do a full inspection and he said it was in decent condition. No major issues, other than some wear on the front bumper which is understandable.

So I think I'm going to make an offer on this baby. I always wanted a black ws6! The first TA I bought was a 1985 back in 87, and I have had this on and off love affair since! This will be the final one though, if I buy this I will definitely be holding on to it for a while.

I was tempted to get the other one which is a non-ws6, but the hood and bigger wheels on the Ram Air do make the car look so much nicer!

This will be the 5th Firebird I've bought since 1987, and hopefully the last one. Of course I would love to get an 02 model, but the prices are so much higher, especially for lower mileage. I could buy one though, as I do have the cash, but I just don't want to spend too much of my savings on an old car! I'm a cheap prick like that!

I'll let you guys know once the deal is final

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**Redphoenix1998** · 07-16-2018, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by SMWS6TA

Another member of the 98 club here too.

Biggest worry on the 98's is the oil pump. 97-98 oil pumps don't like high rpms (above 6k) especially with high miles.

Believe me I know this, it may or may not be the reason I have a 403 in mine now

If you do get it, a good mild cheap thing to do is have Frost install one of his mail order tunes. He'll get it to perfection over stock tune.

Yep that's why my pushrods bent. Starved for oil and the excess heat caused them to bend. But good luck with the WS6! Post pics when you get it!

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-16-2018, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Redphoenix1998

Yep that's why my pushrods bent. Starved for oil and the excess heat caused them to bend. But good luck with the WS6! Post pics when you get it!

Mine was my fault. Doing a burn out and missed the line lock release and hit the rev limiter twice.

It grenade in spectacular fashion. Wiped 3-5 main bearings, spun 5-8 rods, something to this day I can't identify destroyed piston 7 & 8 bottom skirt and blew a hole along the oil galley by #4 cylinder.

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-16-2018, 03:59 PM

Ed Love the avatar.

If you don't plan on doing heavy mods like I have then the WS6 is good to go. If you plan on doing what I did then a non-WS6 (slick beak) bird is better and cheaper most of the time. I upgraded everything that made a WS6 for better parts so it would have been a waste of $$$ for me to get one then turn around and upgrade.

I picked up a Ram Air tray that was broken for free and made the repairs and unless I point it out you wouldn't know I plastic weld 2 pieces together.

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-16-2018, 04:02 PM

No one can say I do half ass shit when breaking something

**pajeff02** · 07-17-2018, 03:01 AM

^^ Amen on that one. You and Spaz are definitely brothers from another mother.

**edforce1** · 07-17-2018, 06:22 AM

One thing I noticed on this vehicle which puzzled me. On the rear where you insert the key to open the trunk -- there's no bird or Trans Am decal. It's totally black, like it was never there. Was this normal on some TA or was it common for some people to remove or replace this with an all black part? Also don't see a Ram Air decal on the hood nostrils.

One other question: Does GM still manufacture parts for these vehicles? I'm just picturing a situation where something breaks, like a trim panel or other item unique to Firebirds.

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***SMWS6TA*** · 07-17-2018, 07:03 AM

Ask him for the RPO code sheet. Located on drivers door. It should have WS6 listed. If not then it's not a real WS6.

Filler panel could have had the paint faded over the years, but there should be an outline in the plastic. most ppl get a vinyl graphic to replace it.

GM has greatly scaled back on their parts for our cars. Body panels you're looking at YearOne, Classic Industries and some others, but mostly salvage yards.

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-17-2018, 07:05 AM

Here are 2 threads that can help you on your purchase.

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/guide-buying-fbody-118628/

http://www.ls1.com/forums/f6/differe...y-years-27512/

**Redphoenix1998** · 07-17-2018, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by edforce1

One thing I noticed on this vehicle which puzzled me. On the rear where you insert the key to open the trunk -- there's no bird or Trans Am decal. It's totally black, like it was never there. Was this normal on some TA or was it common for some people to remove or replace this with an all black part? Also don't see a Ram Air decal on the hood nostrils.

One other question: Does GM still manufacture parts for these vehicles? I'm just picturing a situation where something breaks, like a trim panel or other item unique to Firebirds.

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Here are some dead give aways to know if it's a real or fake WS6. WS6 hood. An OEM GM hood you can tell from the nostrils. There will be a small body line outlining the nostrils and it will be deep. The airbox is another dead giveaway. The factory airbox sits flush with the radiator support while the WS6 box is raised to mate with the nostril area of the hood. THe filler panel the previous owner either blacked it out or it did fade. If it faded like SMWS6TA says, you will see the outline. If it's blacked out it is smooth. The WS6 badge also will be metal and not plastic or acrylic. Visually those are the dead giveaways between a fake and real WS6. The sure fire way is to have the build code or ASC number. If it is indeed a fake WS6 you make want to go with the lower mile T/A to be honest because you can always get an aftermarket hood and badge. The only thing you will be missing out on is the quick ratio steering box. Everything else you can source. But yeah heavy mods don't go with a 98. You will have a lot of limitations and if you have a crappy tuner they will not know how to work around the 98 issues. In case you were curious, the biggest problem is the PCM. 98 PCM's can only read 2 bar maps and not 3 bar maps so if you're boosted like me, the ECU will hold you back. To swap ECU's is a chose as you have to re pin wires or buy a completely new harness.

**edforce1** · 07-17-2018, 09:40 AM

Thanks for the excellent info, much appreciated. I've attached some pics they took this morning of the front end. I was also concerned with the overall condition of the front bumper, with paint chips. I guess I can't expect much on that.

But what do you think and is this a real WS6 hood? Do you think this asking price is fair and what would you offer if you were in my shoes? (Asking CAD $10,995 which is roughly USD $8,350)

BTW, I asked for the door codes but haven't received response yet.

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***SMWS6TA*** · 07-17-2018, 10:09 AM

Look like one. The paint chips are kinda expected with a 20 yr old car. You don't want to see mine.

Seems decent price, 4th Gens have been coming up in price a little lately. Price could also be how much demand in your area they have.

9 yrs ago I got mine for $6500 USD but it was a non-WS6 and had 140k miles on it too. Damn I just realized I've only put on 50k miles in that time and on the 403ci engine I've just put on 10k in 2.5 yrs. And I drive the hell out of it or I thought so.

***SMWS6TA*** · 07-17-2018, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Redphoenix1998

Here are some dead give aways to know if it's a real or fake WS6. WS6 hood. An OEM GM hood you can tell from the nostrils. There will be a small body line outlining the nostrils and it will be deep. The airbox is another dead giveaway. The factory airbox sits flush with the radiator support while the WS6 box is raised to mate with the nostril area of the hood. THe filler panel the previous owner either blacked it out or it did fade. If it faded like SMWS6TA says, you will see the outline. If it's blacked out it is smooth. The WS6 badge also will be metal and not plastic or acrylic. Visually those are the dead giveaways between a fake and real WS6. The sure fire way is to have the build code or ASC number. If it is indeed a fake WS6 you make want to go with the lower mile T/A to be honest because you can always get an aftermarket hood and badge. The only thing you will be missing out on is the quick ratio steering box. Everything else you can source. But yeah heavy mods don't go with a 98. You will have a lot of limitations and if you have a crappy tuner they will not know how to work around the 98 issues. In case you were curious, the biggest problem is the PCM. 98 PCM's can only read 2 bar maps and not 3 bar maps so if you're boosted like me, the ECU will hold you back. To swap ECU's is a chose as you have to re pin wires or buy a completely new harness.

I'll add if you go the non-boost route you can always do a Speed Density tune like I did. Makes tuning a hell of a lot easier.

**Redphoenix1998** · 07-17-2018, 12:32 PM

speed density all the way. From the looks it looks like a real WS6 hood. Most aftermarkets the groover is barely noticeable because the molds they use are not as deep as the factory mold. He could've bought a factory WS6 hood to put it on but hey it's $1000 you don't have to spend! But the chips are expected especially for a 20 year old car. Also if it is truly a stock 98 WS6, you will have the OTL exaust. One on the left so one exhaust tip on the drivers side of the car. Most people swap to dual tips but just an interesting tidbit about true 98 ws6 quirks