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fox mustang vs t/a

This is a discussion on fox mustang vs t/a within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Apples to apples wouldnt you have to put a procharger on an LS1??...

  1. #81
    Apples to apples wouldnt you have to put a procharger on an LS1??

  2. #82
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickssz View Post
    Apples to apples wouldnt you have to put a procharger on an LS1??
    Ahha,,,,I new I would get some takers,,,,,lol
    Yes sir you would to make the comparison a real one. Technically speaking the cobra is nothing but a 4 valve mod motor with a blower,,,take the blower off and what do ya have????? a Mustang Mach 1 that runs mid 13's??????
    On the other hand I have seen some damn quick LS1's with a procharger added.

    Last trip to the track I watched a very stock looking black WS6 with an automatic rip off a tire smoking low 11 second pass at 131 mph,,,lol. That MPH indicated a very very easy 10 second car, but you wouldn't know by looking at it,,,,not bad for a 2 valve pushrod motor,,,,eh?

    So now the discussion begins,,,,,naturally asperated verses blown,,,,I opened another can of worms

  3. #83
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    See what I mean???? This is classic,,,first it starts with which 4th gen is the best or fastest,,,then evolves into a mustang 4th gen benchrace session.

    Okay we need to keep them both going so lets stir the pot a little

    SS's and WS6's are faster than regular 4th gens,,,,and cobras are only faster because they have a blower
    cobra motor vs LS1 motor is totally different and LS1 is a pushrod motor and Pushrod > any other motors.

    they are in different categories.
    to compare cobra motor to an LS1 like comparing apples and oranges.

    4.6 Modular 4v supercharged motor vs 5.7 pushrod LS1 motor.

  4. #84
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodad View Post
    cobra motor vs LS1 motor is totally different and LS1 is a pushrod motor and Pushrod > any other motors.

    they are in different categories.
    to compare cobra motor to an LS1 like comparing apples and oranges.

    4.6 Modular 4v supercharged motor vs 5.7 pushrod LS1 motor.
    Yes exactly,,,but thats what you guys are doing.

    This entire comparison is apples to oranges,,,,blown verses naturally asperated, pushrod verses mod motor, this can go on forever, but it's still classic,,,,,Ford verses Chevy LOL

  5. #85
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Yes exactly,,,but thats what you guys are doing.

    This entire comparison is apples to oranges,,,,blown verses naturally asperated, pushrod verses mod motor, this can go on forever, but it's still classic,,,,,Ford verses Chevy LOL
    actually my respond was to other guy who said "after market parts on LS1s are cheaper" and "you can go 10s cheaper and easier with an LS1 than mustangs" which is not true.

    now when we compare engines, i say an LS1 > modular motors.

    I think it is totally rice when somebody says "oh you have blower and thats why u got me" a cammed vette told me the same thing and I was like WTF? you have the 5.7 pushrod motor then and plus you made 400rwhp and 390rwtq with 3200lbs car vs my 455rwhp -478rwtq 3800+lbs car.

    it is rice. I am an American Muscle fan, not only ford fan. I say ford has better and worse sides when you compare to chevy and the same for chevy.

    overall, they are both kickass cars and they are the ones at track running big numbers most of the time.

  6. #86
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Hmmm,,,I don't understand the rice terminoligy. You lost me there.

    I don't see why people can't comprehend that one car has a blower and the other doesn't,,,it's just the way it is. Stock for stock I see a real difference/advantage here.

    No big deal to me really, I have lost to blown cars and nitrous cars,,,but I am never heart broken over it,,,,I would expect those cars to be fast anyway. You have to tread lightly with a blown or nitroused car,,,,nothing against them here,,,I had a nitrous car in the past,,but I was never jumping for joy when I beat someone with it.
    Simply because in my eyes it's always been more impressive to see a fast car on the motor only.

    I commend ford for coming out with something like the Cobra with a blower, it's cool, but I'm not surprised or impressed they run as good as they do, it's just obvious to me.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Hmmm,,,I don't understand the rice terminoligy. You lost me there.

    I don't see why people can't comprehend that one car has a blower and the other doesn't,,,it's just the way it is. Stock for stock I see a real difference/advantage here.

    No big deal to me really, I have lost to blown cars and nitrous cars,,,but I am never heart broken over it,,,,I would expect those cars to be fast anyway. You have to tread lightly with a blown or nitroused car,,,,nothing against them here,,,I had a nitrous car in the past,,but I was never jumping for joy when I beat someone with it.
    Simply because in my eyes it's always been more impressive to see a fast car on the motor only.

    I commend ford for coming out with something like the Cobra with a blower, it's cool, but I'm not surprised or impressed they run as good as they do, it's just obvious to me.
    2 different motors. one designed to make some good power N/A and another designed to make power with Forced induction. if you compare blower vs. N/A then think about you having 5.7L vs cobra having 4.6L + heavier car.

    I think it is rice when somebody says "oh you got me cuz you have blower" well guess what, cobras won't make any good power without blower or turbo cuz they are not designed to make power N/A. a cobra motor N/A put down 330rwhp and if you upgrade the cams and heads, it will put like i say 370rwhp and 350-360rwtq and thats it where an LS1 can make like 500rwhp N/A if it can hold it.

    if you think an LS1 losing a cobra cuz it doesn't have blower, I say throw blower on LS1 and go race them again, Mostly cobra will take the race again.

    different motors man, no need to even talk about "oh you got the blower, I don't"

    IMO an 03/04 cobra overall way better car than an LS1. most LS1 owners will agree on this. I own one but it is for sale and my next car will be an LS1. cheaper than cobras and kickass cars also,.

  8. #88
    Curious if they are way better why dont all the GT guys trade their cars in on 03/04 cobras?

  9. #89
    Senior Member jrc1122's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickssz View Post
    Curious if they are way better why dont all the GT guys trade their cars in on 03/04 cobras?

    Money $$

  10. #90
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by jrc1122 View Post
    Money $$
    +1

    99% of the time GT guys would trade their GTs to a terminator with a heart beat just like i traded my 06 GT with 18k miles for a 33k miles terminator and paid even 2k on top of it.

    $$ is the problem most of the time.



    Anyway.... back to foxbody vs T/A topic please!!
    Last edited by Musclefan21; 12-20-2007 at 09:30 PM.

  11. #91
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodad View Post
    2 different motors. one designed to make some good power N/A and another designed to make power with Forced induction. if you compare blower vs. N/A then think about you having 5.7L vs cobra having 4.6L + heavier car.

    I think it is rice when somebody says "oh you got me cuz you have blower" well guess what, cobras won't make any good power without blower or turbo cuz they are not designed to make power N/A. a cobra motor N/A put down 330rwhp and if you upgrade the cams and heads, it will put like i say 370rwhp and 350-360rwtq and thats it where an LS1 can make like 500rwhp N/A if it can hold it.

    if you think an LS1 losing a cobra cuz it doesn't have blower, I say throw blower on LS1 and go race them again, Mostly cobra will take the race again.

    different motors man, no need to even talk about "oh you got the blower, I don't"

    IMO an 03/04 cobra overall way better car than an LS1. most LS1 owners will agree on this. I own one but it is for sale and my next car will be an LS1. cheaper than cobras and kickass cars also,.

    I'm not quite sure I follow your argument,,,but on the statement of cobra engines not making good power without the blower,,,,,I don't quite agree with. That very same motor is stock in the Mach 1 mustangs of 03 and 04,,,,those cars make great power and run mid 13's in stock form,,,,almost exactly right on par with a stock LS1.
    As a matter of fact,,,there was one at the track on my last visit,,,with camshafts, exhaust, etc....setup pretty well,,,still a street car,,,naturally asperated and running high 11's on DOT's Nothing to sneeze at. Which again is right where a decent LS1 will run with a camshaft and bolt ons.
    I have seen tons of F-bodys with prochargers added. It's actually very common around here,,,,and they run just as well as blown cobras.

    Quite frankly I have never seen a blown or nitroused car that didn't run good. To beat naturally asperated cars with a blown/nitrous car is nothing to be proud of to me. Been there and done that. If it's blown it better run good, as it should,,,,because if it can't put up a number with that kind of help then I would be embarrassed to drive it.

    Don't get me wrong,,,,I like the cobras and I don't mind blowers, nitrous, prochargers,,,,all that stuff is great and fun to play with,,,,But don't expect me to be impressed when it runs down the track. Even people that are not mechanically inclined would expect a car like that to be fast.
    Now to see a car run similar times on just the motor only is much more impressive to me,,,,thats really doing something, and it takes and well thought out combination, those are the people and cars that impress me the most.

  12. #92
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickssz View Post
    Curious if they are way better why dont all the GT guys trade their cars in on 03/04 cobras?
    It comes down to money,,,,those blown cobras are still fetching decent money...good friend of mine is on his second one. I hate to think what he has invested over the last few years. His first one was obtained after trading a GT, much like mentioned above, and with simple bolt ons he was running mid 11's at 120 mph,,,,he wanted to go faster so he traded for another blown cobra that was modded even more,(plus cash),,,at our last test and tune session he had gotten this one down to 10.80's,,,,,,,,,,just a matter of how fast you want to go, all it takes is money.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by sandman22 View Post
    No shit you noticed a difference. One has more HP stock. What WE with a stock TA mean by better to buy a regular TA than a WS6 is that in time you will want to mod it. Why pay thousands more for a car that you will be removing the shit that caost more anyway. Such as the exhaust and suspension. I CHOSE to buy a regular TA because the stuff that makes a WS6 can be bought else where for less and it could be better. Many companies make a WS6 hood for less than a grand, the exhaust will be coming out eventually ( so why pay more for the WS6 exhaust and then again when you are ready to upgrade) But if you got a money tree in the backyard then yes buy a WS6.
    Dont most WS6 feel stronger than most TA because of the lower rear gears?

  14. #94
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rickssz View Post
    Dont most WS6 feel stronger than most TA because of the lower rear gears?
    The 6 speed version would have the same gears,,,a 3.42.

    It's the automatics where the differences are. Standard rear gear with the automatic on a standard Z or TA was a 2.73 but you could still option the 3.23 at extra cost.

    On the SS and WS6 and automatic the 3.23 became part of the package.

    So if you compare automatic cars together,,,and the standard car did not have the option,,,then yes there would be a noticable gear difference between the two.

  15. #95
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'm not quite sure I follow your argument,,,but on the statement of cobra engines not making good power without the blower,,,,,I don't quite agree with. That very same motor is stock in the Mach 1 mustangs of 03 and 04,,,,those cars make great power and run mid 13's in stock form,,,,almost exactly right on par with a stock LS1.
    mach 1 and 03/04 cobras do not have the same motor. they both have 4v motor and Mach 1s have aluminum block, different heads, etc. while a cobra has iron block, forged internals, different heads, etc.

    now you are telling me that Mach 1s running low 13s in stock form N/A. true,

    but did you ever think about mach 1s have over 10:4 or something compression ratio while cobras have 8:1 or something compression ratio? which means, mach 1 was built to run N/A and terminators were built strictly for blower or turbo.

    it is total rice talk to me when somebody says you beat cuz u had blower and I didn't. well, i don't feel bad cuz you have the turbo and i am N/A.

    you dont have to be impressed on cars running with blowers but they will keep impressing others.

    anyway bro, everyone knows terminators and a lot of people are impressed by them. even when i was not a mustang owner, they drooled me everytime i saw one!

  16. #96
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodad View Post
    mach 1 and 03/04 cobras do not have the same motor. they both have 4v motor and Mach 1s have aluminum block, different heads, etc. while a cobra has iron block, forged internals, different heads, etc.

    now you are telling me that Mach 1s running low 13s in stock form N/A. true,

    but did you ever think about mach 1s have over 10:4 or something compression ratio while cobras have 8:1 or something compression ratio? which means, mach 1 was built to run N/A and terminators were built strictly for blower or turbo.

    it is total rice talk to me when somebody says you beat cuz u had blower and I didn't. well, i don't feel bad cuz you have the turbo and i am N/A.

    you dont have to be impressed on cars running with blowers but they will keep impressing others.

    anyway bro, everyone knows terminators and a lot of people are impressed by them. even when i was not a mustang owner, they drooled me everytime i saw one!

    I am aware of those minor differences between the Mach 1 and the blown cobra,,,,my reference was in general,,,,both being a 4 cam, 4 valve motor,,,one is blown and one is not,,,without getting into technicallities.

    If your impressed with blown cars, what ever floats your boat, most young people are very impressionable.
    I still don't understand what you mean by rice? But I never said whether I cared about getting beat, it happens to everyone,,,,but I'm not broken hearted when the car has some form of forced induction. It should be fast. I had a Typhoon I played with for a while and enjoyed it,,,,the truck would have been a turd without the turbo though.
    Anyone can put a blower on a car and make it fast, or a procharger or nitrous for that matter. You can make a rocket out of a 4 or 6 cylinder with forced induction, it makes it much easier. Studebaker did it in the 60's, Buick did it in the 80's,,,,,it's nothing new. Those cars flew as well,,,so to see another production car with a blower go fast down the track makes me yawn.

  17. #97
    Senior Member Musclefan21's Avatar
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    1997 Formula & 2003 cobra
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I am aware of those minor differences between the Mach 1 and the blown cobra,,,,my reference was in general,,,,both being a 4 cam, 4 valve motor,,,one is blown and one is not,,,without getting into technicallities.

    If your impressed with blown cars, what ever floats your boat, most young people are very impressionable.
    I still don't understand what you mean by rice? But I never said whether I cared about getting beat, it happens to everyone,,,,but I'm not broken hearted when the car has some form of forced induction. It should be fast. I had a Typhoon I played with for a while and enjoyed it,,,,the truck would have been a turd without the turbo though.
    Anyone can put a blower on a car and make it fast, or a procharger or nitrous for that matter. You can make a rocket out of a 4 or 6 cylinder with forced induction, it makes it much easier. Studebaker did it in the 60's, Buick did it in the 80's,,,,,it's nothing new. Those cars flew as well,,,so to see another production car with a blower go fast down the track makes me yawn.
    so what are you saying? everyone go back to N/A to get some respect?

    racing is all about going fast. do whatever it takes to get there cuz at the end, nobody is gonna care about that you got that, you got this, i don't have this, da da da. these are all BS. at the end faster car will get the prize.



    about rice talk; ricers always say, oh you got the v8 and i got the 4 banger and thats why u beat me, oh you have RWD and i have FWD, etc. these are typical ricer talks and you are making one as well by saying "oh the reasion you got me cuz you got a blower and I don't"

  18. #98
    car enthusiast djvaly's Avatar
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    doodad: should be "LS1 fan but Mustang Owner" I know money is tight right now

  19. #99
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doodad View Post
    so what are you saying? everyone go back to N/A to get some respect?

    racing is all about going fast. do whatever it takes to get there cuz at the end, nobody is gonna care about that you got that, you got this, i don't have this, da da da. these are all BS. at the end faster car will get the prize.



    about rice talk; ricers always say, oh you got the v8 and i got the 4 banger and thats why u beat me, oh you have RWD and i have FWD, etc. these are typical ricer talks and you are making one as well by saying "oh the reasion you got me cuz you got a blower and I don't"

    Uuuuum yes,,,,most of the people I hang with as well as many other around here would consider a quick naturally asperated car more impressive and garners more respect,,,,any car can be fast with a power adder, it's a no brainer. But how many quick naturally asperated cars do you see?
    Never heard the ricer remarks before,,,,but again I don't hang with the younger crowds,,,sounds pretty corny to me.

    Is it always about winning with you people no matter what? Thats like saying I'm going to the top and I don't care who I have to step on to get there. I don't think someone of this mentality would understand, you're in a world of your own.

    Doesn't matter though, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Doesn't make any of us right or wrong or what ever you want to call it,,,,,I think the people that can't grasp my concept are all the power adder people,,,how ironic

  20. #100
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I mean are you really that anal and get upset over your car because someone mentions it's fast due to the blower? I don't see the big deal. In the mid 80's I ran a nova with nitrous and I heard those comments all the time,,,I am sure this was long before this "ricer" saying was invented. Not too long after I had a Typhoon and heard the same things. It's nothing new

    It was easy to make go fast,,,,crank up the boost and you were flying,,,,fun? Why sure,,,but it was more of a challenge and more fun to do the same thing just on the motor. Making a car fast on the motor to the point when you pop the hood in the pits and people are actually looking for a power adder has just always been more gratifying to me,,,,nothing wrong with that. I always found the power adder cars I had to be boring in that respect,,,as people would see the solenoids and say,,,,oh well no wonder

    I am not sure why all these cobra owners get so uptight over this stuff, so you have a blower and not everyone is going to be impressed with it,,,,does it really matter to you that much?

    Here is one I used to hear all the time.

    "Oh that stuff is for people who don't know how to build a real motor" That was classic years ago,,,,,,

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