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Engine failure

This is a discussion on Engine failure within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; @Cutlass idk mistype... @youngrigo im looking at short blocks (cheaper) but idk the difference between long/short. im guessing long blocks ...

  1. #21
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    @Cutlass idk mistype...
    @youngrigo im looking at short blocks (cheaper) but idk the difference between long/short. im guessing long blocks are better because of pricing
    Thank you Cutlass and Thank you ls1camino

    ill be getting the upgraded ARP studs, dragonslayer crankshaft, and better rods when i order the engine (comes out around $7700 for aluminum)
    Then ill probably get the FAST 92/102 (correct me if im wrong or if you think of a better option) TB and Intake

    i know when you suggest the lesser engines that youre trying to get me better power asap
    i appreciate your thoughts but this is my thinking (and feel free to share your opinions)-i need a new engine so i have to put money towards engine before suspension
    -i want the LS7 because itll be about 510RWHP stock with my exhaust (i wont be able to get it to the ground yet but...still)
    -ill keep the engine stock for several years while building my transmission and rear and suspension
    -then ill go back and build it up (if i even want to)

    the way i look at it is you can only get so much drivable power out of smaller CI engines
    so with time...wouldnt a 427 be able to put down more than a 383, 402 or 408?

    and i heard the more internal work you do the less driveability it has
    so wouldnt FI be the better option regardless the engine?

    a 427 with FA1 will put close to 1000HP right? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    @Cutlass idk mistype...
    @youngrigo im looking at short blocks (cheaper) but idk the difference between long/short. im guessing long blocks are better because of pricing
    Thank you Cutlass and Thank you ls1camino

    ill be getting the upgraded ARP studs, dragonslayer crankshaft, and better rods when i order the engine (comes out around $7700 for aluminum)
    Then ill probably get the FAST 92/102 (correct me if im wrong or if you think of a better option) TB and Intake

    i know when you suggest the lesser engines that youre trying to get me better power asap
    i appreciate your thoughts but this is my thinking (and feel free to share your opinions)-i need a new engine so i have to put money towards engine before suspension
    -i want the LS7 because itll be about 510RWHP stock with my exhaust (i wont be able to get it to the ground yet but...still)
    -ill keep the engine stock for several years while building my transmission and rear and suspension
    -then ill go back and build it up (if i even want to)

    the way i look at it is you can only get so much drivable power out of smaller CI engines
    so with time...wouldnt a 427 be able to put down more than a 383, 402 or 408?

    and i heard the more internal work you do the less driveability it has
    so wouldnt FI be the better option regardless the engine?

    a 427 with FA1 will put close to 1000HP right? lol
    I understand what you're saying, but I believe you're caught up in the LS7 hype. I'm not trying to talk you out of it, I'm just trying to suggest the best option. A 402 LS2 with head & cam can make a lot more power than a LS7 while spending the same amount of money.

    In regards to the boosting your motor later, you'll need a lower compression motor in order to throw a F1A Procharger on it. If you're getting the motor now, you would definitely not want a low compression, much less a low compression motor for a few years.

  3. #23
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    I just don't want cast iron...I need to shave weight not gain it
    I heard the biggest displacement gets the best drivable power.
    But firebirdjones told me that the LSX 454 is a better option...being the 4.250 bore

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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    I just don't want cast iron...I need to shave weight not gain it.
    Since when are LS2 blocks iron? LS7 blocks are notorious for failing under boost...they have thin cylinder walls. If you want to boost, you're best bet is to go iron...I've come to accept it, you'll have to as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    I heard the biggest displacement gets the best drivable power.
    I've never heard that before. Either your tolerance for streetability is low, or you've never driven anything more than your Trans Am. My T/A, other than having more power, drives no different than when she was stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    But firebirdjones told me that the LSX 454 is a better option...being the 4.250 bore
    The GMPP LSX Block is very expensive, and way out of your price range for what you want. It's also only available as an iron block.
    2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6 M6: 427ci LS3, Built T56, Moser 9" w/ 4.11 Gearing, Full Suspension, and 6-point Cage.
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    2007 Chevrolet 3500 Dually Duramax: 3" Downpipe, Dual 4" Exhaust, EFILive Tuning

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    I havent looked at GMPP. Only TSP and Crateenginedepot
    And as for ls2 i thought u were talking the LQ4/9 my bad
    And yeah i havent drove anything more powerful than my t/a. I just ment that i didnt want a drag car. Thisll be a DD for quite a while.
    And boost is only a possibility..

    Had an offer today
    An LS2 from a vette. Says has a stripped Crankshaft snout.
    Oasking 2700 plus shipping. Ive asked for pics and mileage and info...whatcha think?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    I havent looked at GMPP. Only TSP and Crateenginedepot
    And as for ls2 i thought u were talking the LQ4/9 my bad
    And yeah i havent drove anything more powerful than my t/a. I just ment that i didnt want a drag car. Thisll be a DD for quite a while.
    And boost is only a possibility..

    Had an offer today
    An LS2 from a vette. Says has a stripped Crankshaft snout.
    Oasking 2700 plus shipping. Ive asked for pics and mileage and info...whatcha think?
    If you're going to go stroker, just take the block, mains, lifter trays, covers (front, rear, valley, and camshaft retainer), and every bolt you can get a hold of. If you're looking to drop it in your T/A, I'd advise against it. A stripped crankshaft snout means the threads that hold the crank pulley bolt in are gone = crankshaft useless and needs to be replace. Way too much money for that kind of damage.

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    i dont know. everyone has opinions and there are so many options...
    i just want big easy plug and play power that i can swap alot of my ls1 components over.

    or

    i want something that i can buy as a complete

    id like to get around 500 HP with heads exhaust and a better tb/intake
    and id like to stay aluminum...

  8. #28
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    If you want to stay PnP with your wiring harness and then go with boost. You wanna stay aluminum with the LS1 or 6/LS2 style blocks. It would be best to stay under 370ci also in my opinion. Yes, a bigger engine will make more power but you will also have to fuel it and feed it with bigger fuel pumps and FI head units depending on what you do. More cubes just drives the cost up all around the whole build.

    Also look into AES Racing Engines and Schwanke Shortblocks. They more in your neck of the woods and decently priced.
    Last edited by Packy; 01-03-2011 at 08:37 AM.

  9. #29
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    i was also thinking of getting a crate ls6 from cratenginedepot...but after further thought, im thinkin i may just get a new ls1 crate for $2600, and put a few bucks into that since im only lookin to get between 400-450hp......

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiveass View Post
    i was also thinking of getting a crate ls6 from cratenginedepot...but after further thought, im thinkin i may just get a new ls1 crate for $2600, and put a few bucks into that since im only lookin to get between 400-450hp......

    You can spend a few more bucks. Like around $3300 at AES and get a completely forged 390ci... If you are going to build an engine then get one forged and start off from a more solid platform. If not you will regret paying so much for a non-forged stock motor that can give you problems once you start adding more power to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    You can spend a few more bucks. Like around $3300 at AES and get a completely forged 390ci... If you are going to build an engine then get one forged and start off from a more solid platform. If not you will regret paying so much for a non-forged stock motor that can give you problems once you start adding more power to it.
    +1

    Or even a forged 347

  12. #32
    its short but its skinny. jiveass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    You can spend a few more bucks. Like around $3300 at AES and get a completely forged 390ci... If you are going to build an engine then get one forged and start off from a more solid platform. If not you will regret paying so much for a non-forged stock motor that can give you problems once you start adding more power to it.
    well my plan is to keep it pretty tame, most i would do is heads/cam/stall....i do however need to upgrade the rear end and possible tranny rebuild later on...id like to keep the swap as simple as possible, thats why a new ls1 is lookin pretty tasty...but for curiosity purposes, i will look into the 390....

  13. #33
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    I say do a rebuilt LQ4/9, I have seen them taken from a junkyard and rebuilt for under 4 grand. not to mention you can make use of some of the components on your LS1.

  14. #34
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    Well im thinking.....
    The AES 383 aluminum? http://www.aesracing.net/product_info_383aek.htm...
    The 427. Yes it doesnt have the 4.250 bore or the 12 degree heads but it will still be pretty powerful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiveass View Post
    well my plan is to keep it pretty tame, most i would do is heads/cam/stall....i do however need to upgrade the rear end and possible tranny rebuild later on...id like to keep the swap as simple as possible, thats why a new ls1 is lookin pretty tasty...but for curiosity purposes, i will look into the 390....
    I would look into a Schwanke shortblock as well. They have 5.7L forged shortblocks for less than it will cost for a crate LS1.

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    ok. this is all TSP...
    LS1 383-Aluminum-$4892
    LS1 402/408-Iron-$4488
    LS2 402-Aluminum-$5122*
    LS3 427-Aluminum-$5387*
    LS3 418-Aluminum-$5412*
    LS7 427-Alum/Iron-$7483/$6883*
    LS7 440-Alum/Iron-$7384/$6783*
    LSX 454-Cast Iron-$6833*
    ***needs and comes with conversion kit


    http://www.schwankeshortblocks.com/s...?i=1512&c=1216
    here a forged 427 GM LS7 Aluminum Gen IV Block
    4” Stroke 4340 Steel Crankshaft
    6.125 H Beam Connecting Rods
    Forged Pistons (-4cc Flat Top or -25cc Dish)
    1.5mm Power Pack Ring Set
    Clevite H Rod & Main Bearings
    Digitally Balanced Assembly
    Fully Assembled
    Oil Pump
    Conversion Kit
    Better Rings (Hell Fire)
    just under $7000
    Last edited by BashamWS6; 01-03-2011 at 08:26 PM.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    i dont know. everyone has opinions and there are so many options...
    i just want big easy plug and play power that i can swap alot of my ls1 components over.

    or

    i want something that i can buy as a complete

    id like to get around 500 HP with heads exhaust and a better tb/intake
    and id like to stay aluminum...
    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    ok. this is all TSP...
    LS1 383-Aluminum-$4892
    LS1 402/408-Iron-$4488
    LS2 402-Aluminum-$5122*
    LS3 427-Aluminum-$5387*
    LS3 418-Aluminum-$5412*
    LS7 427-Alum/Iron-$7483/$6883*
    LS7 440-Alum/Iron-$7384/$6783*
    LSX 454-Cast Iron-$6833*
    ***needs and comes with conversion kit


    http://www.schwankeshortblocks.com/s...?i=1512&c=1216
    here a forged 427 GM LS7 Aluminum Gen IV Block
    4 Stroke 4340 Steel Crankshaft
    6.125 H Beam Connecting Rods
    Forged Pistons (-4cc Flat Top or -25cc Dish)
    1.5mm Power Pack Ring Set
    Clevite H Rod & Main Bearings
    Digitally Balanced Assembly
    Fully Assembled
    Oil Pump
    Conversion Kit
    Better Rings (Hell Fire)
    just under $7000
    None of those are complete

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    ok. this is all TSP...
    LS1 383-Aluminum-$4892
    LS1 402/408-Iron-$4488
    LS2 402-Aluminum-$5122*
    LS3 427-Aluminum-$5387*
    LS3 418-Aluminum-$5412*
    LS7 427-Alum/Iron-$7483/$6883*
    LS7 440-Alum/Iron-$7384/$6783*
    LSX 454-Cast Iron-$6833*
    ***needs and comes with conversion kit


    http://www.schwankeshortblocks.com/s...?i=1512&c=1216
    here a forged 427 GM LS7 Aluminum Gen IV Block
    4 Stroke 4340 Steel Crankshaft
    6.125 H Beam Connecting Rods
    Forged Pistons (-4cc Flat Top or -25cc Dish)
    1.5mm Power Pack Ring Set
    Clevite H Rod & Main Bearings
    Digitally Balanced Assembly
    Fully Assembled
    Oil Pump
    Conversion Kit
    Better Rings (Hell Fire)
    just under $7000
    Quote Originally Posted by youngrigo View Post
    None of those are complete
    Yeah, you're forgetting camshaft, heads (lifters, pushrods, rocker arms, valves, springs), injectors, intake, throttle body...

  19. #39
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    well fuck..
    does anyone sell completes?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BashamWS6 View Post
    well fuck..
    does anyone sell completes?
    You're looking for a "long block". They're short blocks (block, crank, rods and pistons) with everything else needed for a swap, usually minus the intake, but intakes are offered sometimes.

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