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Clutch job

This is a discussion on Clutch job within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; ther oil pans on these cars have been designed as a structural piece to the motor its self. That being ...

  1. #21
    Drop&Drag matt evans's Avatar
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    ther oil pans on these cars have been designed as a structural piece to the motor its self. That being said its not going to hurt it to sit next to the k-member. Getting the car completly off the ground will give you more clearence to get the trans out and allows you wiggle room. You wont have to remove your Torque arm just the TA mount thats on the tail shaft. Also put your jackstands on the body and not the rear so that you can manuever the TA back in place with a little more ease then you would if you had the stands under the rear.

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    Cast aluminum is a structural component? 6061 billet, CNC milled, LOL Never the less say you are going to rest the oil pan on the k-frame, it doesnt matter if its 70 feet in the air, its only going to drop down a bit before it hits. Never talks about this in the video and it never really talks about the need to drop the factory exhaust. Guy in video has after market exhaust.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    No you will not have enough height on those low rider ramps. Like I posted above you'll need 4 jacks that can get the car to about 18-20"off the floor (at least).


    Sounds like you have 2 issues. Clutch and rear main seal.

    Clutch we have answer above what needs to be done so I'll focus on the rear main.


    Rear Main - after you get the fly wheel off you will need to loosen all the oil pan bolts, but do not take out except that last 3 on the rear of the motor each side. This is to let the pan drop down giving you have enough room to remove the back plate that holds the rear main and pilot bearing in place. Unlike the old SBC blocks you can not pull the gasket out, the cover must be off in order to replace.

    After swapping the rear main reverse to install.





    What was said about the oil pan being part of the motor integrity is correct. Many ppl doing K member swaps with the car in the air use jack stands and a 2x4 board to hold motor in place while the swap is going on. The secret is that the 2x4 spreads the load over the board not at the focal point of the jack stand. Now if you just use a jack stand alone you'll punch through the oil pan.

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    rear main

    Guy in the clutch video says the rear main can be pulled out with a pick and tapped back in. Is that not the case?

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    p.s., my point to the height issue is........... if the oil pan hits within a 1/4 of tilting, the tranny angle will be shallow like 5 degrees so what will the height buy you?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfin View Post
    Guy in the clutch video says the rear main can be pulled out with a pick and tapped back in. Is that not the case?
    Only if you want leaks.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnfin View Post
    p.s., my point to the height issue is (2) ........... (1) if the oil pan hits within a 1/4 of tilting, the tranny angle will be shallow like 5 degrees so what will the height buy you?
    (1) This gives you just enough room to clearance the rear face plate


    (2) Trust me when I say this - room is everything when you're underneath that car. To reach the top bolts on the tranny to bell housing you'll want some flexibility.


    Since your not doing a motor swap I guess you can get away with it being a little lower but I've got a a big belly so I would stick with that height
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 07-16-2012 at 12:52 PM.

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    Do you have any pics or vids of the rear main seal replacement?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    These are the only pics I have


    In this diagram you will see that there are 2 bolts from the oil pan that come up into the rear face plate.

    You can also see that there are 2 tabs that keep the seal in place.





    Now loosening the side oil pan bolts gives you just enough clearance to pull up and out the face plate


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    If the seal goes into a semi blind hole what does what does removing the cover do for you? Also, if you pull the cover do you risk leaking at the bottom where the oil pan is. Iam sure it would be oil soaked.

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    You can lower the engine after dropping the transmission crossmember for better access to the upper bolts. It is likely that the oil pan gasket is the cause of the leak -- I thought my rear main was leaking, but when I pulled the transmission it was all bone dry. Swapped out the oil pan gasket and the leak was fixed. If you do pull the rear cover, correct alignment is critical as the seal must be centered over the crank and the cover must set flush with the oil pan. There is a dab of RTV at both corners where the oil pan, rear cover and engine block all meet.

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    Drop&Drag matt evans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    No you will not have enough height on those low rider ramps. Like I posted above you'll need 4 jacks that can get the car to about 18-20"off the floor (at least).


    Sounds like you have 2 issues. Clutch and rear main seal.

    Clutch we have answer above what needs to be done so I'll focus on the rear main.


    Rear Main - after you get the fly wheel off you will need to loosen all the oil pan bolts, but do not take out except that last 3 on the rear of the motor each side. This is to let the pan drop down giving you have enough room to remove the back plate that holds the rear main and pilot bearing in place. Unlike the old SBC blocks you can not pull the gasket out, the cover must be off in order to replace.

    After swapping the rear main reverse to install.





    What was said about the oil pan being part of the motor integrity is correct. Many ppl doing K member swaps with the car in the air use jack stands and a 2x4 board to hold motor in place while the swap is going on. The secret is that the 2x4 spreads the load over the board not at the focal point of the jack stand. Now if you just use a jack stand alone you'll punch through the oil pan.
    thanks jeff

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    You're quite welcome... but that was Scott's post that you quoted.

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    Do you have to 1. drop the k-member to get at those top transmission bolts 2. drop the k-member to remove the oil pan gasket?
    Also, looking at the new rear main seal online, what is the white piece, I assume just for packaging. Now if you go thru all that trouble to remove the trans, why would you not replace the rear main seal?

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    No on transmission bolts but I did remove the transmission cross member in order to let the motor tilt a degree or two down to have better access.

    If you have to replace the oil pan gasket then yes you'll have to drop the K-member. It's the only way.


    In that pic above that is from my car. I thought I had a leak from the rear main but it turned out to be from the OPSU that was crack and the oil was leaking down the back of the motor. Since it wasn't leaking from the rear main I haven't done it yet.

    The reason I haven't change it is because I'm of the thinking that if it isn't broke don't mess with it.



    John if you want pm me your city. If you're close to me I can try to help you at.

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    So If I pull the rear seal cover do I have to replace the oil pan gasket? What is an OPSU and where is it located.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Oil pan gasket no, unless you damage it. The oil pan gaskets are part of the windage tray and are reusable.

    Now you will need to replace the rear cover gasket if you pull it.

    OPSU - Oil Pressure Sending Unit. Located on the drivers side behind the intake. Over the many heat cycles these cars have the OPSU gets brittle and can crack over time. I wouldn't worry to much about it right now unless your oil pressure is fluctuating or quits reading.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    I have to ask - why are you worried about the rear main seal? Do you have any leaks from the bell housing that indicates a leak?

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    seal

    I am just thinking if I am in there changing all the parts, I really dont want to do this again so wouldnt I be smart to replace all the parts.

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    I never even considered swapping my rear main seal when I found that all was well back there. I felt that disturbing the alignment of the rear cover and seal would be more likely to result in a leak than leaving it as is. I do not own the alignment tools necessary to properly re-install the rear cover. Granted, I am sure I could have fabbed something up to do the job, but why risk it?
    SMWS6TA likes this.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I never even considered swapping my rear main seal when I found that all was well back there. I felt that disturbing the alignment of the rear cover and seal would be more likely to result in a leak than leaving it as is. I do not own the alignment tools necessary to properly re-install the rear cover. Granted, I am sure I could have fabbed something up to do the job, but why risk it?
    ^^^
    THIS is what I've been trying to get across.

    John - these LSx cars are not like the old chevy small blocks that leak out of every orifice it can find. I'm not saying they are perfect but they are definitely better then before.

    I understand your trying to plan for all contingency and that is good but don't so something that its not needed.

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