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Can I reach 450hp?

This is a discussion on Can I reach 450hp? within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; It's really hard to say what our cars have for horsepower at the crank. Going by rwhp is really the ...

  1. #21
    Rice Hungry GottaHaveLS1's Avatar
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    It's really hard to say what our cars have for horsepower at the crank. Going by rwhp is really the only way to look at numbers, but like other said.. track times are more important. Wanting 450 crank hp is pretty much like wanting 400 rwhp which is definitely attainable with h/c and bolt ons. Do all that (probably will need new clutch & rear) and get it tuned... i'm sure you wont be let down cuz these cars are f*cking nasty

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    Member jujofields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS View Post
    Its extremely difficult to hit 450 RWHP in a auto/stalled/LS1, I hope he is referring to motor HP as well.
    Why do you say that with regards to it being an auto?

  3. #23
    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jujofields View Post
    Why do you say that with regards to it being an auto?
    More drivetrain HP loss through an auto versus manual trannies.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk23 View Post
    I will probably never go to a track, so quarter times don't matter much to me. I just know a car with 450hp is faster than my 330hp i have now. It's my DD, so I don't want to get ridiculous with it, that's why I probably won't go higher than a 228 cam. I'm probably just going to stick with my Mac headers and stick with my original plan. Thanks again for the info.
    With the mods you are planning your car will be a lot faster. I wouldn't get stuck on numbers even if you don't go to the track. I think your plan is pretty solid for what you want.

  5. #25
    U-R-Sofa-King-Retarded SINISTER-TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaHaveLS1 View Post
    It's really hard to say what our cars have for horsepower at the crank. Going by rwhp is really the only way to look at numbers, but like other said.. track times are more important. Wanting 450 crank hp is pretty much like wanting 400 rwhp which is definitely attainable with h/c and bolt ons. Do all that (probably will need new clutch & rear) and get it tuned... i'm sure you wont be let down cuz these cars are f*cking nasty
    You can calulate Crank HP by what the RWHP is. In your calulation you factor in drive train loss for M6 vs A4. This was done after my dyno runs. I'm not sure of the exact formula off of the top of my head but I know it'd not complicated.

  6. #26
    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SINISTER-TA View Post
    You can calulate Crank HP by what the RWHP is. In your calulation you factor in drive train loss for M6 vs A4. This was done after my dyno runs. I'm not sure of the exact formula off of the top of my head but I know it'd not complicated.
    Usually you figure 15% loss for manuals and 20% loss for autos.

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    Member Hawk23's Avatar
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    So an A4 with 450 to the crank would only put down 360rwhp with 20% loss? That trick flow setup that makes 515 would put down 412 to the wheels. Over 100hp lost in the tranny. That's crazy. But hey, I'll take 412rwhp all day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SINISTER-TA View Post
    Gotcha. I agree, 400 RWHP is about the limit on a stock cube NA LS1. I know you can get a little more, but drivability goes out the window.

    If the car is going to be a DD street car, I think 400 RWHP is more than enough. If you want more, then a 150 shot of spray should handle your need for more power.

    I disagree. I've seen many h/c packages get to 500rwhp. I think once the tune is completed you could DD anything you want.

    If I had the cash right now I'd show you. stock cubes and all!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    I disagree. I've seen many h/c packages get to 500rwhp. I think once the tune is completed you could DD anything you want.

    If I had the cash right now I'd show you. stock cubes and all!

    Please show me one HC package on an NA A4 producing 500rwhp. It definitely would not be a daily driver. There have only been a few claiming those numbers with an M6 and they are not daily driven. I guess with your years of experience you know more then all these people that have been doing this stuff for over a decade.

  10. #30
    Felix bigbucks39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk23 View Post
    So an A4 with 450 to the crank would only put down 360rwhp with 20% loss? That trick flow setup that makes 515 would put down 412 to the wheels. Over 100hp lost in the tranny. That's crazy. But hey, I'll take 412rwhp all day.
    not to put anyone down but im pretty sure you lose more around 18% i know its not much of a difference but the bigger the numbers the bigger the difference and it would probly put you closer to 422 rwhp. i plan on doing the trick flow heads with a texas-speed cam i guess i will be one to find out the hard way. and im sure if you have some bolt ons you would be sitting at more that 515 at the flywheel. in the description they say its a stock ls1 with a ls6 intake. i dont know if they are talking about the 90mm or 92mm or the stock ls6 intake. im starting to get prepared to get a cam put in this next winter hopefully and maybe if i get somthing with better gas mileage i will go all out. sorry if i sound like im making a big deal about it, but we'll see what numbers these kits put out at the wheels for real. hopefully soon.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    I disagree. I've seen many h/c packages get to 500rwhp. I think once the tune is completed you could DD anything you want.

    If I had the cash right now I'd show you. stock cubes and all!
    I could DD a riding lawn mover if I wanted, it doesnt mean It's practical. I think your missing the point here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rc74racer View Post
    Please show me one HC package on an NA A4 producing 500rwhp. It definitely would not be a daily driver. There have only been a few claiming those numbers with an M6 and they are not daily driven. I guess with your years of experience you know more then all these people that have been doing this stuff for over a decade.

    http://www.vengeancerd.com/Item4.html

    I didn't say necessarily a4, but here you go! and my bad, I mean't h/c/i. btw this is what I know after owning an ls1 for ALMOST 2 years

    Time don't mean shit. case in point. I was at the track last friday and so was this slow ass gt500. The fn thing couldn't get out of the 9s in the 1/8th to save his life. they switched drivers and I tried to give the guy some advise. he told me he's been racing for 5 years. I've only been drag racing for about 1yr. I pull WAY BETTER times than he did with his 5yrs experience. I get 8.52 and with much less hp and tq.

    10years don't mean shit

    Quote Originally Posted by SINISTER-TA View Post
    I could DD a riding lawn mover if I wanted, it doesnt mean It's practical. I think your missing the point here.
    what's practical mean? If you're always worried about being practical, you're probably not worried about going fast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    http://www.vengeancerd.com/Item4.html

    I didn't say necessarily a4, but here you go! and my bad, I mean't h/c/i. btw this is what I know after owning an ls1 for ALMOST 2 years

    Time don't mean shit. case in point. I was at the track last friday and so was this slow ass gt500. The fn thing couldn't get out of the 9s in the 1/8th to save his life. they switched drivers and I tried to give the guy some advise. he told me he's been racing for 5 years. I've only been drag racing for about 1yr. I pull WAY BETTER times than he did with his 5yrs experience. I get 8.52 and with much less hp and tq.

    10years don't mean shit
    Who's talking about track times? I was talking about experience building LS1 engines/cars of which you have minimal that's obvious.

    Oh and the link you posted is unverified crank HP. Take out drivetrain loss and you are under 500 rwhp. Not to mention that package makes no claims on driveability. I seriously doubt that package produces anywhere near those numbers anyhow. This entire post is about RWHP in an A4 and whether 450 is attainable in a daily driver. You believe what you want to dude I'll just know what I know and leave it at that.

  14. #34
    Member Hawk23's Avatar
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    That trick flow h/c package has a 112 LSA on the cam, 228/230 duration. That's pushing it for an A4 to keep it a DD. I probably won't go with less than a 114 LSA and at most a 228R cam from TSP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rc74racer View Post
    Who's talking about track times? I was talking about experience building LS1 engines/cars of which you have minimal that's obvious.

    Oh and the link you posted is unverified crank HP. Take out drivetrain loss and you are under 500 rwhp. Not to mention that package makes no claims on driveability. I seriously doubt that package produces anywhere near those numbers anyhow. This entire post is about RWHP in an A4 and whether 450 is attainable in a daily driver. You believe what you want to dude I'll just know what I know and leave it at that.
    you're missing the point son your afforementioned 10yrs doesn't mean shit to me, simply put. You understand, simple enough for ya? let me know if you need that in laymen's terms.

    with 575hp, you're sure to have 450rwhp don't you agree? I hope so. As long as the tune is good I don't see what the problem is on the drivability side. I mean, if you're scared of the low lsa, get a cam with a higher one.

  16. #36
    Felix bigbucks39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    you're missing the point son your afforementioned 10yrs doesn't mean shit to me, simply put. You understand, simple enough for ya? let me know if you need that in laymen's terms.

    with 575hp, you're sure to have 450rwhp don't you agree? I hope so. As long as the tune is good I don't see what the problem is on the drivability side. I mean, if you're scared of the low lsa, get a cam with a higher one.
    if your getting that kind of horsepower at the fly than it should be close to 470 rwhp. in my eyes is well over 450. rwhp doesnt come easy.

  17. #37
    My set up is close to what you are talking about with macs,off road y pipe and magna flow cat back. Mustang dyno is 475 crank hp at 6200 rpm and 424 tq at 5000 rpm. Rear wheel is 393/352. I just had it retuned and think I got a little more out of it. I need to put it on a dyno jet just for kicks it should be higher. I also have a 12 bolt and 3.73's that might eat up a little on a dyno.

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    Last edited by 01WS6475hp; 06-16-2008 at 08:13 PM.

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