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best birds of all generations

This is a discussion on best birds of all generations within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; yeah i did,nowhere did it say "a buick 350 with two cylinders chopped off"...

  1. #21
    autoconnectionllc.com 02transamce's Avatar
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    yeah i did,nowhere did it say "a buick 350 with two cylinders chopped off"

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02transamce View Post
    yeah i did,nowhere did it say "a buick 350 with two cylinders chopped off"
    Check this out ..*wink* The V6 Doc is in again...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#350

    350
    Buick adopted the popular 350 cu in (5.7 L) size with their final family of V8s. Although sharing the displacement of the Chevrolet Small-Block engine family, the Buicks were substantially different.

    The Buick 350 V8 had a 3.80 in (97 mm) bore (like the 231) and retained the 3.85 in (98 mm) stroke of the 340. It was introduced in 1968 and produced through 1980. Its nickname is "Dauntless."

    The major differences of the Buick 350 when compared to other GM V8's are deep skirt block construction, higher nickel-content cast iron, external oil pump, under square bore sizing, 3 in (76 mm) crank main journals, and 6.5 in (170 mm) connecting rods. It is an extremely rugged and durable engine, and some of the design characteristics of the Buick 350 are found in modern GM engines such as the 231 V6, and Series I, II, and III 3800 V6's.
    Of all the GM 350-cubic-inch (5.7 L) engines, the Buick 350 has the longest stroke, which lends to making significantly more torque than any of the others. It also made the Buick 350 significantly wider — essentially the same width as the Buick big-blocks, which have the shortest stroke of the GM big-blocks. In fact, at a glance the Buick 350 is commonly mistaken for the 455 engine due to the oversized intake manifold atop the engine. The Buick 350 also shares an integrated aluminum timing cover as do most of the Buick small and big blocks which incorporates the oil pump mechanisms as well, leaving the oil filter exposed to oncoming air for added cooling.

    Doc out...
    Last edited by Smittro; 03-03-2010 at 08:24 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Not trying to be pissy, v6's are just my thing/obsession is all.. Tho I lean heavily in the dirrection of the 660...
    Last edited by Smittro; 03-03-2010 at 08:40 AM.

  4. #24
    Member goof4080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kheflw View Post
    This cant go on without giving the 67 Firebird 400 its due. I remember reading way back when before I bought it. A review that said, the 67 differs from the 68 & 69 in a way that you either Love It or Hate It.
    Click for full size
    love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9T8W66 View Post

    3rd gen
    1991 Formula Firehawk w/full competition pkg.

    i believe you mean 1992

    and doc...tell me more about the 1992 3.8 tune port motor and it's potential...LOL
    Last edited by goof4080; 03-03-2010 at 04:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goof4080 View Post
    love it.




    i believe you mean 1992

    and doc...tell me more about the 1992 3.8 tune port motor and it's potential...LOL
    Click for full size
    What do you want to know?.

    1991-95 3800 V6 TPI vin L

    170hp @ 5200 rpm
    220tq @ 2000 rpm
    8.5:1 Compression
    FWD, balance shaft, crank driven oil pump, DIS, hydraulic roller camshaft, PCV integral to intake manifold
    22 lb/hr injectors
    Last edited by Smittro; 03-03-2010 at 04:45 PM.

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    autoconnectionllc.com 02transamce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Not trying to be pissy, v6's are just my thing/obsession is all.. Tho I lean heavily in the dirrection of the 660...
    no problem,i have a L67 in my monte carlo and although it is no ls1 i am very pleased with the power output.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02transamce View Post
    no problem,i have a L67 in my monte carlo and although it is no ls1 i am very pleased with the power output.
    Cool, but if you go outside one day and are missing a blower, it was'nt me..

  8. #28
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    sorry early 2nd gen (70-73) ftw.
    word. 70 t\a is way mo bettah than the bandit.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by big hammer View Post
    word. 70 t\a is way mo bettah than the bandit.
    Prolly a s&*t ton faster too...

  10. #30
    Senior Member big hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Prolly a s&*t ton faster too...
    hells yeah! a 73 super duty would run mid 13's

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    As far as I can recall there's no difference between the fwd and rwd heads from the era.. Most of the changes that were made were for areas of reliability.. Though the 231 from tha time of the GN was just a buick 350 with two cyliders chopped off..
    Drastic changes to the 3.8L did'nt come till the intro of the series I-II dubbed the 3800.. Which is actually 3700 and some change cc's.. The 3800 n/a could have been just as powerfull as the stock GN turbo motors had GM desided to work their magic with them like they did when the 3.4L 60* TDC was introduced severly detuned... I could only imagine how a 3800 with a twin dual cam setup would run had GM desided to go that route with it...
    i knew i had read that the 89 turbo trans am did have fwd heads,just couldn't find the article....until today,dec 2005 issue of gm high tech performance magazine. quote: "except unlike the turbo buick motors,the tta received a cross-drilled crank for better lubrication and a different set of heads as was required for proper clearance of the shock towers in the f-body.reaching into the gm parts bin,pas(performance automotive systems of southern california) modified a set of transverse fwd 3.8L heads for improved combustion chamber design and exhaust flow.subsequently a different set of pistons was required to maintain an 8.0:1 compression.to make the tta especially potent,the larger gnx intercooler was added along with more boost(totaling 16.5 psi)."

  12. #32
    Firebird Encyclopedia 9T8W66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goof4080 View Post
    i believe you mean 1992
    No the Firehawk debuted in 1991.
    Hence why the 10th Anniversary car was built in `01.
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  13. #33
    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    since I had a 68 Firebird 400 and a 69 Firebird .. Id say the 69 Firebird , maybe even over the Trans Am ...
    2nd Gen I always liked the 74 over the 70-73 , just looked sleeker to me ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smittro View Post
    Check this out ..*wink* The V6 Doc is in again...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#350

    , and some of the design characteristics of the Buick 350 are found in modern GM engines such as the 231 V6, and Series I, II, and III 3800 V6's.
    .
    You might be thinking of the Chevy 4.3 as the 350 w/ 2 cylinders chopped-off:

    5.7L * 6/8 = 4.3L

    Quote Originally Posted by 9T8W66
    1st Gen
    1968 Firebird 400 Ram Air II 4spd.

    2nd Gen
    1970 Trans Am Ram Air IV (RPO LS1) in Lucerne Blue (only 25 0f the 88 LS1 T/A's were blue)

    3rd gen
    1991 Formula Firehawk w/full competition pkg.

    4th Gen
    1 of the 2 1998 Formula WS6 convertibles.
    Oh so close. My choices would be:

    1st gen: '68 Firebird 400 RAII / 4sp 'vert, red w/ black top (old neighbor had one)

    2nd gen: '73 SD455 T/A, 4sp red w/ black interior (a different old neighbor had one)

    3rd gen: '89 TTA (buddy's uncle has 2, 1 w/ less than 10 miles on it)

    4th gen: See sig

    Johnny B - '98 "Triple Black" WS6 Convert, M6, All Options, ASC #3030 (1 of 50)
    KBDDSFC, DGM C/F Tonneau, MTI C/F Lid, K&N, HPP-III, 160 T-stat, Pro 5.0
    Link to Firebird Production Breakdowns

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag View Post
    You might be thinking of the Chevy 4.3 as the 350 w/ 2 cylinders chopped-off:

    5.7L * 6/8 = 4.3L



    Oh so close. My choices would be:

    1st gen: '68 Firebird 400 RAII / 4sp 'vert, red w/ black top (old neighbor had one)

    2nd gen: '73 SD455 T/A, 4sp red w/ black interior (a different old neighbor had one)

    3rd gen: '89 TTA (buddy's uncle has 2, 1 w/ less than 10 miles on it)

    4th gen: See sig
    Nope, a lot of the design characteristics were carried over to the 231.. I know about the vortec 4.3.. Totally different era.. The 231 still carries to this day some of the buick "quallities. The bore from the 350, and stroke from their 340. The 231 can be traced back as far as the "wild cat".. Same with the characteristics TDC v6 from chevrolet. When you hear northstar think TDC...
    Last edited by Smittro; 03-06-2010 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02transamce View Post
    i knew i had read that the 89 turbo trans am did have fwd heads,just couldn't find the article....until today,dec 2005 issue of gm high tech performance magazine. quote: "except unlike the turbo buick motors,the tta received a cross-drilled crank for better lubrication and a different set of heads as was required for proper clearance of the shock towers in the f-body.reaching into the gm parts bin,pas(performance automotive systems of southern california) modified a set of transverse fwd 3.8L heads for improved combustion chamber design and exhaust flow.subsequently a different set of pistons was required to maintain an 8.0:1 compression.to make the tta especially potent,the larger gnx intercooler was added along with more boost(totaling 16.5 psi)."
    Currently can not find any difference in castings.. valve size in this case has nothing to do with castings.. Same castings different workings and grinds..

  17. #37
    Member goof4080's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9T8W66 View Post
    No the Firehawk debuted in 1991.
    Hence why the 10th Anniversary car was built in `01.
    really, cuz 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 2000 2001 would have been year 10. and only some 17-19 were slated for build in the first year.

  18. #38
    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goof4080 View Post
    really, cuz 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 2000 2001 would have been year 10. and only some 17-19 were slated for build in the first year.
    no, 1st firehawk was in 1991, ten years later, in 2001 you get the 10th anniversary

    1991+10=2001
    1992+10=2002

    was that really necessary?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02transamce View Post
    i knew i had read that the 89 turbo trans am did have fwd heads,just couldn't find the article....until today,dec 2005 issue of gm high tech performance magazine. quote: "except unlike the turbo buick motors,the tta received a cross-drilled crank for better lubrication and a different set of heads as was required for proper clearance of the shock towers in the f-body.reaching into the gm parts bin,pas(performance automotive systems of southern california) modified a set of transverse fwd 3.8L heads for improved combustion chamber design and exhaust flow.subsequently a different set of pistons was required to maintain an 8.0:1 compression.to make the tta especially potent,the larger gnx intercooler was added along with more boost(totaling 16.5 psi)."
    There's also a rumor going around that the TT/A had the first version of the "Series" I.. Which was right around when the deck height changed.. The crossover blocks suposedly had cross drilled main caps with suppoedly 6 bolts in each cap.. The journal size was bumped from the previous size aswell.. I ran into this exact issue with "something in blue".. I'd thought I'd ordered Sc heads but actually got a set of buick heads. Crossed the castings and sure enough the castings are the same with the exception of holes drilled for the injectors right in the heads. However they are series I heads. A match for the series II N/A heads too. Blocks or the series I, II, III are identical. When the series I arrived it was when a "roller" was introduced to the 3800 as well.. Oil pump was moved to the front and crank driven.. Now there are a mixture of crossable parts from the era still even tho the 3800 I-III is actually a smaller block design than the 3.8 in GN days.. In a nut shell, the TT/A if ever fully unleashed if would prolly be barely street legal..IMHO take it for what it's worth...

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    Quote Originally Posted by goof4080 View Post
    really, cuz 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 2000 2001 would have been year 10. and only some 17-19 were slated for build in the first year.
    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    no, 1st firehawk was in 1991, ten years later, in 2001 you get the 10th anniversary

    1991+10=2001
    1992+10=2002

    was that really necessary?
    THIS....
    http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...awk/index.html
    With so few Formula Firehawks built in 1991 and 1992, they seldom appear in classifieds and when they do, the asking price oftentimes reflects their limited production numbers. Bruce says he first saw Firehawk No. 24 in Hemmings Motor News in late 1999. "It was advertised at a price that I really couldn't afford, but I still called to inquire and learn more about it. It's at that point my quest of owning unique Third-Gen Firebirds began."

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