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ABS Removal

This is a discussion on ABS Removal within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I drove an 87 formula without ABS and a 01 WS6 with it, I drove the 87 all year round, ...

  1. #21
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    2001 Trans Am Ws6

    I drove an 87 formula without ABS and a 01 WS6 with it, I drove the 87 all year round, and was glad I didn't have it because of year round driving and city driving , but the 305 wasn't nearly as fast and the handling was not the same at all as the 01 and I didn't take my ws6 in snow or rain. But on dry pavement I'd have to say I was very thankful for ABS, especially with driving on I-94 and/or merging onto 394 where drivers are the stupidest and just cut infront of you without signaling and giving you 10 feet to react before them cutting in front.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag View Post
    "Zero traction" is a tad bit of an exageration. True, if the front wheels are not rotating, you have no steering control. But thats not the result of having zero traction, its the result of the slip angle going to zero when the same patch of rubber remains in contact with the pavement. You could rotate that patch of rubber WRT the pavement sliding under it by turning the steering wheel, but the slip angle stays at zero since the tire rotation is zero.

    If traction was zero when the tires stopped rotating, you'd never stop by locking all 4 wheels. But you are correct that maximum traction is achieved by preventing lock-up, regardless of the surface conditions. Theoretically, you could stop faster without ABS because ABS relies on tire-slipage to detect lock-up. Those short bursts of tire slipage reduce net average traction during a stop, and if you could just linearily keep the tires from barely slipping, you should stop shorter. However, you have only one pedal to control 4 wheels, which under less-than-ideal conditions don't have equal amounts of traction, so one of them will inevitabiliy lock-up before the others. ABS takes the advantage back from the human by controlling each wheel independently.
    Perhaps among the most well thought out explanation... ideal situation no abs is better (logically) but because almost nobody can have such good pedal feel in emergency as to just barely keep all their tires rotating, abs would be more consistent > better. But, nobody could reasonably argue that the difference is going to be more than a few feet in a 60-0mph test.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Oh I was about to say! I just might. I know in both dry and wet pavement though, ABS will make the car stop quicker.

    Yup!

    Like mentioned, ABS works by pulsating the brakes about 15 times per second when it is activated. This in return allows the wheel to not slide, or at least resist sliding. Without ABS, if you hit the brakes hard and you begin to slide, you have zero traction and thus zero steering manuevering. When you're sliding, you're not stopping quicker.

    Yup!
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyBs98WS6Rag View Post
    "Zero traction" is a tad bit of an exageration. True, if the front wheels are not rotating, you have no steering control. But thats not the result of having zero traction, its the result of the slip angle going to zero when the same patch of rubber remains in contact with the pavement. You could rotate that patch of rubber WRT the pavement sliding under it by turning the steering wheel, but the slip angle stays at zero since the tire rotation is zero.

    If traction was zero when the tires stopped rotating, you'd never stop by locking all 4 wheels. But you are correct that maximum traction is achieved by preventing lock-up, regardless of the surface conditions. Theoretically, you could stop faster without ABS because ABS relies on tire-slipage to detect lock-up. Those short bursts of tire slipage reduce net average traction during a stop, and if you could just linearily keep the tires from barely slipping, you should stop shorter. However, you have only one pedal to control 4 wheels, which under less-than-ideal conditions don't have equal amounts of traction, so one of them will inevitabiliy lock-up before the others. ABS takes the advantage back from the human by controlling each wheel independently.

    Yes again. I want 4 pedals for my brakes!


    Quote Originally Posted by hot93rod View Post
    Perhaps among the most well thought out explanation... ideal situation no abs is better (logically) but because almost nobody can have such good pedal feel in emergency as to just barely keep all their tires rotating, abs would be more consistent > better. But, nobody could reasonably argue that the difference is going to be more than a few feet in a 60-0mph test.
    60-0 a few to 10 feet, yes. 100 to 0 is like 10-25 feet quicker stopping on dry pavement. I like my ABS on dry/wet pavement. Just don't start talking to me about traction control, my right foot is traction control.

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