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33k for a trans am...

This is a discussion on 33k for a trans am... within the Firebird / WS6 forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; I would so not pay that much for it...but I'm sure someone else will. To the guys credit it is ...

  1. #21
    Member Cronex's Avatar
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    I would so not pay that much for it...but I'm sure someone else will. To the guys credit it is low as hell on miles, and looks great. Purely a collectors car though. Doubt the average joe would buy it.

  2. #22
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    really though, what classic car didnt increase in value?

    how many 2nd or 3rd gens are bringing in any money? hardly none.
    I'm a little confused at these statements, they contradict each other.

    But if you want examples of 2nd gens bringing in money you don't have to look very hard.
    Have you looked to see what a 73-74 SD T/A is fetching lately??? I've seen them over 60K for a correct one.
    Even the 71-72 455 HO T/A's aren't far behind that. And the 70 T/A has alot of one year only features that are commanding some high prices right now also in the 35-40K range.
    How about a 70-72 Z28???? A correct example will fetch 40K no problem.

    They are starting to climb quickly and will continue to climb. Because of this people are already starting to look at later year 2nd gens from 75-81 and this is causing the price to rise on these as well.

    A nice 79 T/A that is correct and the right options can bring 20K already,,,the Z28's of same vintage are close behind. It wasn't but 5 years ago you could pick up a nice one for $5-6,000,,,,,not anymore.

    The only cheap 2nd gens left anymore are either missing alot of OE equipment, or are rusted terribly and beat to death. Most of them won't even have the original drivetrains anymore.

  3. #23
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    i bought my car with 12,000 miles and drive it on weekends and put a couple thousand miles on it a year. it just makes more sense to me to buy something and enjoy it.
    I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't drive one. But the thought does come to mind,,, How practical is it to drive to the point where they become so valuable it's a liability.

    I don't know if 4th gens will ever reach that status or not. But if you had a high dollar classic parked in the garage, something that is irreplaceable,,,
    Would you drive it weekly?? Monthly?? or at all???

    You have to admit that when these old classics become so valuable to the point they cost more than a house, and insurance is high as a result,,,do you really want to drive it that much???

    I don't know about you but other people out on the road scare the hell outta me,,,and when I'm in a classic I tend to drive on less populated roads to reduce that risk. They also have come out of the garage less and less over the years as the value continues to climb.
    I agree, I love to drive them, and mileage isn't a concern for me, and hasn't really had much affect on values of the vintage stuff,,,but I think collectors in general or more worried about the idiot in the other lane.

  4. #24
    Member qwk93ta's Avatar
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    I would not pay 33k for a T/A.

  5. #25
    Member Cronex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I don't think anyone is saying you shouldn't drive one. But the thought does come to mind,,, How practical is it to drive to the point where they become so valuable it's a liability.

    I don't know if 4th gens will ever reach that status or not. But if you had a high dollar classic parked in the garage, something that is irreplaceable,,,
    Would you drive it weekly?? Monthly?? or at all???

    You have to admit that when these old classics become so valuable to the point they cost more than a house, and insurance is high as a result,,,do you really want to drive it that much???

    I don't know about you but other people out on the road scare the hell outta me,,,and when I'm in a classic I tend to drive on less populated roads to reduce that risk. They also have come out of the garage less and less over the years as the value continues to climb.
    I agree, I love to drive them, and mileage isn't a concern for me, and hasn't really had much affect on values of the vintage stuff,,,but I think collectors in general or more worried about the idiot in the other lane.
    Hahaha, I think of the idiot in the other lane every single day, reguardless of what car I'm driving. I definitely keep my distance when I drive the TA. If anything happens to it other then general maintenance I can get quite pissed easy.

  6. #26
    Millennium Falcon mpfranks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I'm a little confused at these statements, they contradict each other.

    But if you want examples of 2nd gens bringing in money you don't have to look very hard.
    Have you looked to see what a 73-74 SD T/A is fetching lately??? I've seen them over 60K for a correct one.
    Even the 71-72 455 HO T/A's aren't far behind that. And the 70 T/A has alot of one year only features that are commanding some high prices right now also in the 35-40K range.
    How about a 70-72 Z28???? A correct example will fetch 40K no problem.

    They are starting to climb quickly and will continue to climb. Because of this people are already starting to look at later year 2nd gens from 75-81 and this is causing the price to rise on these as well.

    A nice 79 T/A that is correct and the right options can bring 20K already,,,the Z28's of same vintage are close behind. It wasn't but 5 years ago you could pick up a nice one for $5-6,000,,,,,not anymore.

    The only cheap 2nd gens left anymore are either missing alot of OE equipment, or are rusted terribly and beat to death. Most of them won't even have the original drivetrains anymore.
    When I say classic cars, I mean cars that are considered classics today. Not all old cars are classics. I don't really think anyone outside of this forum really considers 2nd or 3rd gen fbodies classic cars. And just becuase you see cars go for top dollar on the barret jackson doesn't mean that's what their all worth. And like I said, there's a lot of people out there who bought these cars with the intent to store them. In 20 years when there are a lot of them with under 5000 miles that will hurt the values.
    Last edited by mpfranks; 01-07-2009 at 08:54 AM.

  7. #27
    Senior Member SS02's Avatar
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    Nice ride... be lucky if he gets 23k for it right now!
    If profit is going to happen... wait and wait!

    Offer 23-24k

  8. #28
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    When I say classic cars, I mean cars that are considered classics today. Not all old cars are classics. I don't really think anyone outside of this forum really considers 2nd or 3rd gen fbodies classic cars. And just becuase you see cars go for top dollar on the barret jackson doesn't mean that's what their all worth. And like I said, there's a lot of people out there who bought these cars with the intent to store them. In 20 years when there are a lot of them with under 5000 miles that will hurt the values.
    To be classified as classics or historical vehicles by most all US states it only has to reach 25 years old. Lets face it,,,,when a car is that old they start getting few and far between, especially East of the Mississippi. Thats one factor that starts driving prices up.
    To not consider a 2nd gen a classic is silly. Especially the early 70-73 2nd gens. Barrett Jackson has nothing to do with it. Pickup a copy of the muscle car trader and you'll see what I mean.
    Shucks even the old 6 cyl models and post sedan models are fetching good money now, and the economy hasn't affected it that much when it comes to classics.
    I don't have to tell anyone this,,,,simply looking in Hemmings will give you a great idea what stuff is selling for. There is anything and everything in there to compare to.
    What they are "worth" as you say has a very vague meaning. You have to be around this stuff for many years for any one person to determine that.
    But a good start would be to see what others are selling for on the market, base the condition of the car in question on that, and whether or not it's the real thing. Those prices I threw out in a previous post were not something I grabbed out of the air. If you want a classic muscle car thats a real example and is correct ,,,thats what you will pay.

    The younger generation has a hard time understanding, and even the older crowd too. My father is an example,,,buying his 69 GTO new for $3400, a car he still has today. He can't believe what has happened with prices.


    I've watched the prices climb starting in the mid 80's and they haven't seemed to stop really. As the older stuff gets out of reach (like 1st gens) it starts to drive up prices on 2nd gens and so on because more people are now looking at them. Supply and demand.
    The real question here though is,,,will this happen to 4th gens??? Hard to say. We will have to wait another 15-20 years to see.

    Right now everyone is enjoying the cheap 4th gens out there, they are a dime a dozen, easy to find and replace when one is totalled (ask me how I know). So it's hard to imagine prices going higher right now if at all.

    If you are old enough to remember the old classics did the same thing throughout the 70's gas crunch, prices hit rock bottom and you couldn't give them away.
    Sounds familiar doesn't it???
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 01-07-2009 at 10:27 AM.

  9. #29
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Um,,,,where have you been. The first gen camaro's are already fetching 60K and then some.

    A 69 Z28 correctly restored will grab 60-80K no problem,,,and with the right options even more. I had one and currently have another one.

    Do I need to mention Yenko's, Baldwin Motion, COPO.

    Shucks even a Super Sport with a 396/375 hp will fetch 60K if restored properly,,,,I had 2 of these.
    i know they fetch high..i was referring to you thinking that our 4th gens will be pulling those numbers in 15 years....

  10. #30
    Millennium Falcon mpfranks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    To be classified as classics or historical vehicles by most all US states it only has to reach 25 years old. Lets face it,,,,when a car is that old they start getting few and far between, especially East of the Mississippi. Thats one factor that starts driving prices up.
    To not consider a 2nd gen a classic is silly. Especially the early 70-73 2nd gens. Barrett Jackson has nothing to do with it. Pickup a copy of the muscle car trader and you'll see what I mean.
    Shucks even the old 6 cyl models and post sedan models are fetching good money now, and the economy hasn't affected it that much when it comes to classics.
    I don't have to tell anyone this,,,,simply looking in Hemmings will give you a great idea what stuff is selling for. There is anything and everything in there to compare to.
    What they are "worth" as you say has a very vague meaning. You have to be around this stuff for many years for any one person to determine that.
    But a good start would be to see what others are selling for on the market, base the condition of the car in question on that, and whether or not it's the real thing. Those prices I threw out in a previous post were not something I grabbed out of the air. If you want a classic muscle car thats a real example and is correct ,,,thats what you will pay.

    The younger generation has a hard time understanding, and even the older crowd too. My father is an example,,,buying his 69 GTO new for $3400, a car he still has today. He can't believe what has happened with prices.


    I've watched the prices climb starting in the mid 80's and they haven't seemed to stop really. As the older stuff gets out of reach (like 1st gens) it starts to drive up prices on 2nd gens and so on because more people are now looking at them. Supply and demand.
    The real question here though is,,,will this happen to 4th gens??? Hard to say. We will have to wait another 15-20 years to see.

    Right now everyone is enjoying the cheap 4th gens out there, they are a dime a dozen, easy to find and replace when one is totalled (ask me how I know). So it's hard to imagine prices going higher right now if at all.

    If you are old enough to remember the old classics did the same thing throughout the 70's gas crunch, prices hit rock bottom and you couldn't give them away.
    Sounds familiar doesn't it???
    i know the dmv considers anything 25 years old a classic, but thats not what i meant and i think you knew that. do you think a 1980 toyota camary is a classic? neither do i. but overall very well said, and some valid points. i think we are saying some of the same stuff. but again, i personally dont think that people outside of this forum and fbody enthusiasts really consider 2nd gen classics. you mentioned your dads gto, everyone, car nut or not would consider that classic. or when you mention chevelle, charger, corvette. these cars strike a bell with anyone. i just dont think 2nd gens will ever do that, and def not 3rd gens. i mean those things are already 20 years old and they really arent worth anything, not even original sticker in most cases. just my opinion.

    and again, not saying 4th gens wont be off the charts in 20 years, i mean i hope they are, but like you said, theyre dime a dozen now. but even in the 60's gto's like your dad's werent.

    and auctions like the barret jackson do drive up the prices of classic cars. thats why depending on what sells for high dollar usually goes through a cycle increasing and decreasing in value. how else can you explain cars increasing and dropping in value within a 10 year period? by your reasoning, classics should continue to increase, but thats not always the case.

  11. #31
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    That car will be worth what they are asking for...just not yet!

    And even at 1500 or so miles it's still 'technically' used. NOT brand new.

  12. #32
    Millennium Falcon mpfranks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne97 View Post
    That car will be worth what they are asking for...just not yet!

    And even at 1500 or so miles it's still 'technically' used. NOT brand new.
    agreed

  13. #33
    NY Representative basballny2's Avatar
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    my dad has told me stories of his cars, if he woulda kept half the shit he had wed be millionares, unfortunatly because of storage and raising a family he had to sell them at a time when 10k for a 67 GTO was a good price. Now he kicks himself. He still has his 67 firebird 400 (original owner non the less) and his 67 vett. But man if he woulda kept some of those others

  14. #34
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    i know the dmv considers anything 25 years old a classic, but thats not what i meant and i think you knew that. do you think a 1980 toyota camary is a classic? neither do i. but overall very well said, and some valid points. i think we are saying some of the same stuff. but again, i personally dont think that people outside of this forum and fbody enthusiasts really consider 2nd gen classics. you mentioned your dads gto, everyone, car nut or not would consider that classic. or when you mention chevelle, charger, corvette. these cars strike a bell with anyone. i just dont think 2nd gens will ever do that, and def not 3rd gens. i mean those things are already 20 years old and they really arent worth anything, not even original sticker in most cases. just my opinion.

    and again, not saying 4th gens wont be off the charts in 20 years, i mean i hope they are, but like you said, theyre dime a dozen now. but even in the 60's gto's like your dad's werent.

    and auctions like the barret jackson do drive up the prices of classic cars. thats why depending on what sells for high dollar usually goes through a cycle increasing and decreasing in value. how else can you explain cars increasing and dropping in value within a 10 year period? by your reasoning, classics should continue to increase, but thats not always the case.
    I know what you meant about classic, I guess I should explain that a bit when I referred to states recognizing classics. There are certain stipulations that a car has to meet to be considered a classic by the state. For starters they have to be desirable, limited production etc...there is actually a book listing what a state considers classic. And no a Toyota Camary is not on the list. I thought this was self explainatory.
    So you have a basic concept of what is collectable but you are excluding alot of cars, and you are the first I've ever heard say a 2nd gen isn't a classic or desirable. This must be one in a million.
    I just don't understand how you can't view a 2nd gen as a classic or collector.
    Are you saying a 1970 Z28 is not a desirable classic??? Or an even more rare 70 SS 396/375 HP model??
    What about a 73 SD Trans Am?? Shucks even Scott Teiman is restoring these cars for big money.

    I can think of at least a dozen 2nd gens you would have to mortage a house to buy. That tells me they are desirable, hard to find, collectable, classics that people are willing to pay a small fortune for.
    Like I said, check out Hemmings and see for yourself. You don't have to base your prices off of Barrett Jackson, plenty of these cars exchanging hands for big money from private sellers.

  15. #35
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne97 View Post
    That car will be worth what they are asking for...just not yet!

    And even at 1500 or so miles it's still 'technically' used. NOT brand new.
    Well I guess if you want to split hairs,,,,

    But it's about as new as a 2002 you are going to find. I think the phrase "like buying a new one" is more of a broad term that is self explanatory.

  16. #36
    Kenne-Bell Killer Cayenne97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Well I guess if you want to split hairs,,,,

    But it's about as new as a 2002 you are going to find. I think the phrase "like buying a new one" is more of a broad term that is self explanatory.
    Yes, but even if the car had less than 50 miles on it and was truly a brand new (never owned) vehicle you still couldn't sell it at MSRP in the year 2009. It's an older car, therefore the value is not that of when it rolled off the assembly line.

    Now in 10-20 years or so, that's an entirely different story. I'm positive these cars will be collectors items and will sell for more than new (in mint condition of course ).

  17. #37
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne97 View Post
    Yes, but even if the car had less than 50 miles on it and was truly a brand new (never owned) vehicle you still couldn't sell it at MSRP in the year 2009. It's an older car, therefore the value is not that of when it rolled off the assembly line.
    Now in 10-20 years or so, that's an entirely different story. I'm positive these cars will be collectors items and will sell for more than new (in mint condition of course ).
    If you go by the books or a bank loan then your first statement is correct. But to a collector it doesn't matter what the book says the car is worth. No what I mean? It's just a matter of finding the right buyer.
    Most of the yougin's here on a limited budget are enjoying cheap 4th gens right now and won't look past Kelly book values.

  18. #38
    Millennium Falcon mpfranks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I know what you meant about classic, I guess I should explain that a bit when I referred to states recognizing classics. There are certain stipulations that a car has to meet to be considered a classic by the state. For starters they have to be desirable, limited production etc...there is actually a book listing what a state considers classic. And no a Toyota Camary is not on the list. I thought this was self explainatory.
    So you have a basic concept of what is collectable but you are excluding alot of cars, and you are the first I've ever heard say a 2nd gen isn't a classic or desirable. This must be one in a million.
    I just don't understand how you can't view a 2nd gen as a classic or collector.
    Are you saying a 1970 Z28 is not a desirable classic??? Or an even more rare 70 SS 396/375 HP model??
    What about a 73 SD Trans Am?? Shucks even Scott Teiman is restoring these cars for big money.

    I can think of at least a dozen 2nd gens you would have to mortage a house to buy. That tells me they are desirable, hard to find, collectable, classics that people are willing to pay a small fortune for.
    Like I said, check out Hemmings and see for yourself. You don't have to base your prices off of Barrett Jackson, plenty of these cars exchanging hands for big money from private sellers.
    no, there is collector, classic and antique. collector has to be desirable and rare, classic does not. the requirements are completely different. brand new show cars have collector tags. anything 25 years or older can have classic plates

    and ill say it again... youre an f body enthusiast, ask joe schmo (not a car collector/nut/gear head/etc), if he even knows what a 72 camaro looks like... but ask him what a 70 chevelle looks like, bet he could tell you
    Last edited by mpfranks; 01-07-2009 at 05:06 PM.

  19. #39
    Kenne-Bell Killer Cayenne97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    If you go by the books or a bank loan then your first statement is correct. But to a collector it doesn't matter what the book says the car is worth. No what I mean? It's just a matter of finding the right buyer.
    Most of the yougin's here on a limited budget are enjoying cheap 4th gens right now and won't look past Kelly book values.
    Very true. I guess if they can get somebody to bite (which they probably will) then the price is right!

  20. #40
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    no, there is collector, classic and antique. collector has to be desirable and rare, classic does not. the requirements are completely different. brand new show cars have collector tags. anything 25 years or older can have classic plates

    and ill say it again... youre an f body enthusiast, ask joe schmo (not a car collector/nut/gear head/etc), if he even knows what a 72 camaro looks like... but ask him what a 70 chevelle looks like, bet he could tell you
    I'm an everything enthusiast to be honest. You wouldn't have to be strictly an F-body enthusiast to know what a 72 camaro is. At least not the crowd I hand around.
    I'm guessing you are basing that on younger generations, which are not the generations (for the most part) that are purchasing these cars in the first place. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and guess that you were born around 1985???

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