02 Firebird TA Ws6 need some advice and direction

**JohnPL** · 03-20-2017, 12:30 PM

Hello,

I figured this would be a good place to start and see what people had to say. My goal with this car (02' Firebird TA Ws6 6sp) will be to have something somewhere in the middle of radical and realistic. This will be a daily driver so it will need to be reliable. Stock these cars get pretty good gas mileage. While I know there is a trade off I need to find that happy medium. I am not sure which direction I should head at this time. Should I stay naturally aspirated or should I look to go forced induction? What is realistically going to be streetable? How much horse power with this type of setup would I be looking at? Until I get a second vehicle which won't be for a good amount of time my hands will be tied with this one. However I don't want to leave it stock and I know there is some wiggle room with what I want to do. What would you all recommend?

Thanks,
John

**Whamhammer** · 03-20-2017, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by JohnPL

Hello,

I figured this would be a good place to start and see what people had to say. My goal with this car (02' Firebird TA Ws6 6sp) will be to have something somewhere in the middle of radical and realistic. This will be a daily driver so it will need to be reliable. Stock these cars get pretty good gas mileage. While I know there is a trade off I need to find that happy medium. I am not sure which direction I should head at this time. Should I stay naturally aspirated or should I look to go forced induction? What is realistically going to be streetable? How much horse power with this type of setup would I be looking at? Until I get a second vehicle which won't be for a good amount of time my hands will be tied with this one. However I don't want to leave it stock and I know there is some wiggle room with what I want to do. What would you all recommend?

Thanks,
John

Welcome, John!

The typical place to start is a SLP air filter lid, although K&N style oiled air filters aren't as good because the MAF is so close to the air filter. Also a catback exhaust is a good way to go, for a beginning.

I also believe in addition by subtraction (of weight), most of the aftermarket tubular control arms (front and rear) are stronger, and lighter, and the lower weight goes toward shaving "unsparing" weight which is the most noticeable (some say one pound of unsprung weight is worth 4 pounds of regular car weight).

Subframe connectors are a great thing to add, as they increase the cars rigidity.

All of the above could be done for under $2,500.

**pajeff02** · 03-20-2017, 04:17 PM

Welcome! NA or FI these engines will make serious power and have good reliability. Unfortunately, the F-body does have some inherent weak spots that should be addressed in order to handle any engine upgrades. As posted, SFC's are a wise addition and the exhaust will need attention. The rear differential is not all that great and most of the rear suspension components are prime candidates for being swapped out with aftermarket goodies. Stick cars like yours may also have clutch and shifting issues that arise.

***SMWS6TA*** · 03-21-2017, 06:44 AM

^^ Agree. Now my 2 cents.

When I started down the road of mods I was given some great advice.

Research, research, research - there's a 1000 ways to build a project. A lot of us on here have made threads of various projects that can help you avoid some pitfalls.

Figure out your goal - by this what is it you want vs what you can do vs what you're willing to or have to pay to do/for - Decided if you want track, street, daily or show or some combo of them. Some go easier and cheaper than others. But you can do it, just comes down to $$. Regarding the 2nd part - Know your skill set. Are you willing to learn, make mistakes and do stuff 2-3 times to get right? Do you have enough garage space? Time - this is the killer of all projects. The longer something sits the harder it is to complete. If you got something that is a big mod, chip away in small increments, this keeps progress going and they all add up. Some stuff you're going to have to others do it. Machine work, welding, etc. Those cost $$$ and time.

Form a plan & parts list - This is supper important. I spent a yr acquiring parts when I blew up my LS1 and then when I had rod bolt failure on test drive another 4 months to to get new parts to get to my current configuration. I seriously have a Excel spreed sheet that has every part, vendor and cost for every single item on my car. God help me if my wife ever sees that

Other info - some ppl will do engine 1st and then spend the rest of the time fixing all the weak points that you'll find when you add more power/torque. Suspension and rear are 2 of the biggest points of interest.

These are a must to me.
SFC's - deal with body flex that the unibodies are know to have. 3pt > 2pt> nothing.
LCA's - wheel hop
Torque Arm - keeps the rear planted. The oem is stamp steel and is almost a joke.
PHB - see torque arm comment.
Shocks - depends on what your goals are. Some are required for hard core track, others not so much but better than oem

Adjustable suspension is better to get because you can fine tune the suspension and they become a must if you lower the car.

Rear End - I can't express enough how much I loath the 10 bolt. A great injustice GM did by putting that on our cars. With mild bolt on's you'll be fine as long as you stay away from drag radials or slicks. Hot sticky day with a M6 car and you're just asking to have it grenade on you. Even possible with stock power. You can change the gear set in them but the bigger the gear set the thinner the material. I will never recommend getting 4:10 gears for a 10 bolt. There are now many options for a rear, each has their pro's and cons.

Top dog will be the 9" - great for heavy duty work but the con is the parasitic drag, meaning you'll have more power train drag on the engine, which burns more gas. This is not so much an issue if your a track warrior but if you plan to daily it, it becomes an over kill item. The 9" is also design for quick change of diff/gear sets which makes them awesome for track use.
8.8 or GM 12 bolt - both are practically the same as far as ring gear size. Both are great all around rear ends that when built right they can handle just about anything and have less drag penalty then the 9". These were practically the standard in racing for decades till the 9" came along. Slightly cheaper than 9".
Dana 60 - not to many run this. I haven't seen one in person but know that some are in use. So I can't really give an opinion on them.

Besides engine, transmission will need to be address but in like the engine it depends on your end goals.

Best thing you can do is research what you want and ask, plenty of us here that can help when you hit a road block.

Also one more last bit of advice.

Quick, cheap, reliable - you can only pick two.

**TransAmTerry** · 03-21-2017, 10:01 AM

Some real good advice above !! I have the same car and was about in the same boat as you. I was daily driving it but wanted to do some up grades. I started out with an SLP lid on the intake and a K&N filter ( some controversy there with some ppl ) and had someone port and polish the stock intake. For the exhaust, I went with Kooks long tubes and Magnaflo with quad tips out back and sounds damn awsome. I had my cats removed at the same time and had them programmed out of the ECU. If you're going to daily drive it for awhile get some high flow cats - I don't like the exhaust stench with out them (just my 2 cents on that ). The basic engine is still stock. Go with fresh plugs & wires if a lot of miles are on the old ones. once I did all that, I sent my ECU to Tuned By Frost. He's a mail order tuner with a good reputation. After I did all that I had it Dyno'd at came out to be 345 HP at the wheels which comes to be approx 397 at fly wheel. My best time at the quarter mile was 13.2 at 109 mph. A better driver proly coulda got it under 13 ! Not too bad for 'mostly ' stock IMHO. Any more that this and I'd definetly need to upgrade my rear-end ( $$$ )
As far as suspension goes, mine's lowered about an inch and a 1/2 with Bilstein shocks Eibach springs which is a VERY firm but not overly harsh ride -again IMHO ! Does wonders for the stance handling performance. I recently upgraded to a better torque arm and adjustable pan-hard bar and 3-point sub frame connectors -- now it handles like it's on rails. I'm running summer performance tires now that I'm not DD'ing anymore but that limits my cold but sunny weather driving which sucks so I recommend all weather performance tires while you're still running year 'round.
So, except for the tires,, I could DD mine and it still easily kicks the ass of most performance cars out there. To get more HP that this, I'd have to start looking at power-adders or heads and cam which leads to trans and clutch and rear upgrades and that's money money money !! .. maybe one day but for now ( for me) it's that 'happy-medium thing.
I only added to this thread b/c you have basically the same car I have and around the same goals I had at 1st. FAR MORE knowledgeable ppl on here than me !! Good luck with your build.

***SMWS6TA*** · 03-21-2017, 12:42 PM

Also for the record with all I've done I still drive mine as much as I can.

a 403ci with 4:10 gears, custom 8.8 rear.....MPG...

**JohnPL** · 03-21-2017, 07:12 PM

This car will be my daily fun street car. It may see a track once in a blue moon, however I have never been to a track so think pretty much street. I don't mind playing with things as long as I'm not going to completely tear them up. Honestly I have a lot to learn in this area. Luckily I have some good friends with some knowledge and my father who had some badass cars in his day. Seeing as this is a daily I can't afford for it to be sitting out for extended periods of time. I'm working on a plan and parts list now. From the research I've done so far it appears I want to go procharger. I like your must list and will be rolling with it. My 02 Camaro SS was lowered on Bilstein shocks. the 305's would rub and it was even worse when I had my then wife in the car and 2 kids in the back seat. Adjustable is likely the way I'm going to go and I know it's not cheap. I'm thinking I can get away with a 12 bolt. I won't be dropping the clutch or going 4:10 gears. I like the fact that you can cruse highway speeds at low rpms. I am not going for 1/4mile times. I may go SLP Lid, LT headers and true duals. Once that is done I'll get into the suspension. This won't be an overnight thing and I'll chip away at it. Thanks for the advice!

I'll have to take Reliable and seeing how this car is going to be sticking around for years to come quick. Cheap isn't really in my vocabulary, cheap doesn't last...

I have never had a really fast car. I've driven some z06 corvettes and a GT3 Porsche which were all very quick. I had an 06' GSXR 1000 I surely miss. I'm not exactly sure where my end game is. It's a daily street car. I don't want to get to far in that I have the worst gas mileage ever. However I do want a fun ride with some pep when I want it. I'll probably just keep going until I'm happy with what I have.

**JohnPL** · 03-21-2017, 07:17 PM

Pretty sure my 02 Camaro ss had Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs. It had 305 tires in the back that would rub especially if I had the then wife and 2 kids in the car. I am likely going to end up finding my happy medium but I know what I really enjoyed driving speed wise so I definitely have a ways to go from stock. I'm in South Fla so I need to find tires that will also deal with rain. Thanks for the post!

**SuperSSguy** · 03-21-2017, 10:14 PM

Great Advice from the members above ..Cant add to that except only to agree....I`d say the free mods and the SLP lid were my first upgrades from stock....Later I added Cold air kit and Kooks LT`s with high flow cats and Magna- flow cat back- all 3 inch stainless exhaust system. This was Way better as far as sound and power/torque than stock....Then I did the LCA`s,PH bar, control arms,torque arm(all adjustable)motor mounts as well as trans mount(Prothane) . I can feel the need for ALOT more especially the SFC`s for sure!!...Ran out of money and other problems that life brings put me on hold for a tad but I will be back soon.......A wish list for the near future is SFC`s,Cut-Outs,new adjustable shocks possibly adjustable coil overs all the way around,Tick clutch master,then later down the road Heads,Intake cam?.....and replace that crappy rear end Scott related to..(They really are crap!) My first one luckily under extended warranty had to be replaced along with the transmission....Thank God I bought it.. There's an endless list,Like most of US car guys ...We always want more.......

***SMWS6TA*** · 03-22-2017, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by JohnPL

Pretty sure my 02 Camaro ss had Bilstein shocks and Eibach springs. It had 305 tires in the back that would rub especially if I had the then wife and 2 kids in the car. I am likely going to end up finding my happy medium but I know what I really enjoyed driving speed wise so I definitely have a ways to go from stock. I'm in South Fla so I need to find tires that will also deal with rain. Thanks for the post!

I run Nitto 555's all year. As much as it rains here in Mobile they handle pretty damn good.

**pajeff02** · 03-25-2017, 04:09 AM

Hell, I run my drag wheels and tires on the street every chance I get. Local police always stop by and chuckle at the tire setup when they come to our cruise ins.

**cowstandmoto** · 04-20-2017, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by SuperSSguy

Great Advice from the members above ..Cant add to that except only to agree....I`d say the free mods and the SLP lid were my first upgrades from stock....Later I added Cold air kit and Kooks LT`s with high flow cats and Magna- flow cat back- all 3 inch stainless exhaust system. This was Way better as far as sound and power/torque than stock....Then I did the LCA`s,PH bar, control arms,torque arm(all adjustable)motor mounts as well as trans mount(Prothane) . I can feel the need for ALOT more especially the SFC`s for sure!!...Ran out of money and other problems that life brings put me on hold for a tad but I will be back soon.......A wish list for the near future is SFC`s,Cut-Outs,new adjustable shocks possibly adjustable coil overs all the way around,Tick clutch master,then later down the road Heads,Intake cam?.....and replace that crappy rear end Scott related to..(They really are crap!) My first one luckily under extended warranty had to be replaced along with the transmission....Thank God I bought it.. There's an endless list,Like most of US car guys ...We always want more.......

Agreed Super. Excellent advice from those above. I too put a GM 12 bolt in mine a few years ago.