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Wing Aerodynamics

This is a discussion on Wing Aerodynamics within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by mbrownin Not a good comparison at all. The spoiler is shaped NOTHING like the airplane's wing. Airplane ...

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    Senior Member 02ultraZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrownin View Post
    Not a good comparison at all. The spoiler is shaped NOTHING like the airplane's wing. Airplane wing generates lift by forcing the air on top to move faster than the air on the bottom, which reduces pressure on top, which creates the lifting effect. The spoiler simply forces the air to change direction, but for every action there is an equal & opposite reaction, so when the spoiler forces the air up, the air forces the spoiler down.
    Lol, it does the exact same thing upside down. The SS spoiler more so then the Z28. Thats why they are curved the way they are (venturi-shaped). I know how lift works bud, thanks. For cars that have a solid spoiler (one without a gap underneath) it works as you explained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02ultraZ View Post
    Lol, it does the exact same thing upside down. The SS spoiler more so then the Z28. Thats why they are curved the way they are (venturi-shaped). I know how lift works bud, thanks. For cars that have a solid spoiler (one without a gap underneath) it works as you explained.
    Congratulations "bud", you know how lift works Fact is, the amount of downforce created by the "reverse lift" as you put it is trivial compared to the amount of downforce created from the air flow being forced to change direction. If you must compare it to an airplane wing, the closest comparison would be a wing with its aileron moved upward to force the wing downward (notice how the rear-most section of the SS spoiler angles upward). The wing (in particular the part of the wing where the aileron is located) still generates lift, but the downward force caused by the aileron (forcing a directional change in airflow) is much stronger.

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    Senior Member 02ultraZ's Avatar
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    Do yourself a favor and look up what i told you, notice they even use it on the veyron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02ultraZ View Post
    Do yourself a favor and look up what i told you, notice they even use it on the veyron.
    Take the time to actually look at the Veyron's spoiler. Here, I'll make it easy for you.
    The vast majority of the downforce it makes is because of the spoiler's angle relative to the airflow,
    NOT the amount of reverse lift it makes.

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    Senior Member 02ultraZ's Avatar
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    you win mofo, i can't battle it any more. After your first response i knew i was wrong. But hey at least i helped everyone else understand! U my friend are old and wise, me I am young and still get to fuck girls half your age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 02ultraZ View Post
    you win mofo, i can't battle it any more. After your first response i knew i was wrong. But hey at least i helped everyone else understand! U my friend are old and wise, me I am young and still get to fuck girls half your age.
    Wow! Nice come-back!

    Hate to break it to you, but women get better with age. By the time they are my age, they actually know what they're doing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrownin View Post
    Wow! Nice come-back!

    Hate to break it to you, but women get better with age. By the time they are my age, they actually know what they're doing.
    I married an older woman (that's no woman, that's my wife)

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    Senior Member 02ultraZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrownin View Post
    Wow! Nice come-back!

    Hate to break it to you, but women get better with age. By the time they are my age, they actually know what they're doing.
    had a 29 yr old when i was 19 & a 30 yr old when i was 20, diff girls. I must say they are better but not hotter...

    Most people wouldn't say you are right, they will just keep going and flame...but shiiit it's only the internet...

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    Lets get this back on topic guys before I have to close it.

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    Junior Member 2002Sebring1sc's Avatar
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    Iíve got a little experience in this area. Iím a 24 year USAF vet, 8 years of which I spent as a Technical Instructor of flight controls and aerodynamics. This is a fact; a rear mounted spoiler (wing) is an inverted airfoil and thus produces inverted lift (down force). This is also a fact as lift is increased parasitic drag is increased by the square (if you increase lift by 2 you increase drag by 4, if you increase lift by 4 you increase drag by 16 and so on) As you see that down force can cost you big. I can remember when Lamborghini introduced the Countach, Car and Driver or MT found 20mph by removing the wing.

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    Puerto Rico LS1 Rikki_SeVeN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002Sebring1sc View Post
    Iíve got a little experience in this area. Iím a 24 year USAF vet, 8 years of which I spent as a Technical Instructor of flight controls and aerodynamics. This is a fact; a rear mounted spoiler (wing) is an inverted airfoil and thus produces inverted lift (down force). This is also a fact as lift is increased parasitic drag is increased by the square (if you increase lift by 2 you increase drag by 4, if you increase lift by 4 you increase drag by 16 and so on) As you see that down force can cost you big. I can remember when Lamborghini introduced the Countach, Car and Driver or MT found 20mph by removing the wing.
    Interesting stuff...
    but in your expert opinio...which of the F-Body wings would actually help...and which would just slow you down?

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    Junior Member 2002Sebring1sc's Avatar
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    In all seriousness unless you plan on spending most of you time above 140mph it all boils down to aesthetics. My car is a Z28 and feels relatively stable at 140 but how often are you going to be doing that. My motto is keep it UNDERSTATED/SLEEPER, don't let them know what hit them. But the bottom line is it's your car and this is America, build it the way you like it.
    (But if you rice it out with a shopping cart wing we will all laugh)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002Sebring1sc View Post
    In all seriousness unless you plan on spending most of you time above 140mph it all boils down to aesthetics. My car is a Z28 and feels relatively stable at 140 but how often are you going to be doing that. My motto is keep it UNDERSTATED/SLEEPER, don't let them know what hit them. But the bottom line is it's your car and this is America, build it the way you like it.
    (But if you rice it out with a shopping cart wing we will all laugh)
    LOL... very well said... I'm a BIG fan of the Sleek/Sleeper look myself...and it's true... who really goes that fast all the time!?

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    Madeche Vision...soon The Scientist's Avatar
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    They guy from hamburg, Germany seems to. And he is the one who started this thread.

    And, I might be wrong with this one, but I think if you are wanting to stablize a stock f-body at high speeds you would be better off adding ground effects or lowering the car from stock height rather than adding a bigger wing for more downforce. Can anybody add some input to this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002Sebring1sc View Post
    Iíve got a little experience in this area. Iím a 24 year USAF vet, 8 years of which I spent as a Technical Instructor of flight controls and aerodynamics. This is a fact; a rear mounted spoiler (wing) is an inverted airfoil and thus produces inverted lift (down force). This is also a fact as lift is increased parasitic drag is increased by the square (if you increase lift by 2 you increase drag by 4, if you increase lift by 4 you increase drag by 16 and so on) As you see that down force can cost you big. I can remember when Lamborghini introduced the Countach, Car and Driver or MT found 20mph by removing the wing.
    since your the pro for this kind of stuff, what about ground effex ? how does that work with our cars? help or slow down like the lambo?

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    Junior Member 2002Sebring1sc's Avatar
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    O.K. here goes the quick and simple version of ground effects or air damming. As your car increases in speed you start to push a bow wave, it is an area of relatively higher pressure air in front of your car. This is due to the compressibility of air. Of course an air dam will partially block the air flow under the vehicle creating an area of relative low pressure compared to the upper surface, and it holds your car down to the road. Great news. But it comes at a price. You have to deal with a little something called "area rule". Look at your car head on, every square inch that you can see (the air dam, grill, cowl, wind shield, roof line, mirrors, ect) are creating drag. Add all those inches up and represent as a big flat piece of plywood and it's shocking. Now push that through the air, of course streamlining makes a huge difference by reducing turbulence and drag but you get the picture. The bottom line is DRAG IS DRAG whether it's from an air dam (i.e. ground effects) or a spoiler (wing) and as speed is increased drag increases by the square.

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    you da man, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002Sebring1sc View Post
    Iíve got a little experience in this area. Iím a 24 year USAF vet, 8 years of which I spent as a Technical Instructor of flight controls and aerodynamics. This is a fact; a rear mounted spoiler (wing) is an inverted airfoil and thus produces inverted lift (down force). This is also a fact as lift is increased parasitic drag is increased by the square (if you increase lift by 2 you increase drag by 4, if you increase lift by 4 you increase drag by 16 and so on) As you see that down force can cost you big. I can remember when Lamborghini introduced the Countach, Car and Driver or MT found 20mph by removing the wing.
    Thanks! good info!

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    This Light Dinner Is Over hamburger68's Avatar
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    very cool, that was exactly the insight i was looking for, thanks!
    ...and actually, i don't drive that fast all the time, do you know the gas prices here??? but sometimes i do, and i have to say, even at 140 -150 the car feels rather solid. also, it's not a very light car, so there's always 1.7 metric tons of downforce just by gravity...

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    SS Driver aerojt's Avatar
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    This is old I know, but did we decide if the Z and SS Spoiler were any different for performance or just looks?

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