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what bolt ons give more h.p

This is a discussion on what bolt ons give more h.p within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by konigandy6 Only one way to find out +1. All depends on how you can launch, and how ...

  1. #21
    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    Only one way to find out
    +1. All depends on how you can launch, and how well you drive! Can easily be a .5 sec/4 MPH difference between a good driver and others.

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    Junior Member Oddwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    This plus a quality tune. NOT a handheld programmer!!!



    You want 2 things in headers - long tubes and stainless steel.
    See from what I can tell, for a light bolt on or even stockish car, handhelds have been proven time and time again to add 10-12 rwhp. GMhigtechperformance did a handheld shoot out, similar results. When my ride was stock and also bolt on, I enjoyed my predator handheld greatly. Also, once you learn a little and get your ltfts dialed in etc, they are even better. I ended up getting a CMR custom tune done on my car after the cam-using the handheld plus expanded CMR software. EIther way, I wouldn't personally pay for a dyno tune until I was all done, and even then you don't learn squat. If however you want to learn a little, and retain the ability to keep playing and tweaking as well as log graphing of real time data with the added abilty of emailing your log data into a CMR dealer (person who has access to the all of the software capabilities of the diablosport predator-software suite) then perhaps a predator could fit your bill? Just sayin', they're not crap if you know what you're doing. Hell even the canned tunes are often huge improvements over stock (especially on an a4 like mine-woke it up very much, better mpg, and better throttle response). Jmo.
    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    Also, don't bother with the EO legal shorties. The 01/02's have the best exhaust manifolds put on the LS1 F-body.

    Is being smog legal a concern?
    X2. Also, I hear an expanded y pipe along with the 01/02 exhaust mans works great as well in a pinch.

    Quote Originally Posted by 02midniteblu-ss View Post
    i got a 02 ss slp maro and want to get more h.p with out doin major work thinking of some long tubes,bbk throtle body,and maybe some 411 gears..what ya think..
    Yeah see to me, long tube header *can be major work (especially if you go with SLPs). Are they worth it? Yes, for most but not all.

    OP- I'd start off with a nice catback or catback/cutout combo, lid, drop in filter (if you can get one cheap, otherwise don't bother), I'd skip the throttle body and pulley and focus on getting those mild bolt ons tuned in (whether you wanna go software suite (warning-learning curve) or dyno or handheld). That will give you a good start and about 25-30 rwhp more. If it doesn't, tear into the headers and y pipe. That'll get things going, then lastly only for the last few ponies I'd add the throttle body, intake (maybe), pulley etc.

  3. #23
    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddwraith View Post
    See from what I can tell, for a light bolt on or even stockish car, handhelds have been proven time and time again to add 10-12 rwhp. GMhigtechperformance did a handheld shoot out, similar results. When my ride was stock and also bolt on, I enjoyed my predator handheld greatly. Also, once you learn a little and get your ltfts dialed in etc, they are even better. I ended up getting a CMR custom tune done on my car after the cam-using the handheld plus expanded CMR software. EIther way, I wouldn't personally pay for a dyno tune until I was all done, and even then you don't learn squat. If however you want to learn a little, and retain the ability to keep playing and tweaking as well as log graphing of real time data with the added abilty of emailing your log data into a CMR dealer (person who has access to the all of the software capabilities of the diablosport predator-software suite) then perhaps a predator could fit your bill? Just sayin', they're not crap if you know what you're doing. Hell even the canned tunes are often huge improvements over stock (especially on an a4 like mine-woke it up very much, better mpg, and better throttle response). Jmo.
    The problem with your standard handheld tuner, is 95% of the people using them just plug in and answer yes/no questions to get a "tune". What you're talking about sounds more like a HPTuners program where you can drive around and plug right into a laptop. Gives you real time data and you're able to dial in everything imaginable. Personally I've never tuned a vehicle. Could I learn, sure, but I trust mine to someone who has done hundreds of them and has access to a dyno. But I suppose if I was still somewhat stock with minor bolt ons, I wouldn't want to pay that much for a dyno run.

  4. #24
    Member camaross1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    I don't think it has been said yet, so I'll volunteer this: Leave the MAF alone!
    yes pa jeff is 100% correct on the stock MAF, alot of people buy aftermarket one, about 300 or more, they just dont know no better, again like jeff said ,your stock maf is good to 500 hp, i got stock maf,stock tb, stock injectors, stock intake manifold, stock fuel pump, and my SS dyno at 429.2 rwhp and 406.3 tq, so please do your homework before you spend unnessary money, those aftermarket people make millions, just listen to peolpe sometimes, FYI

  5. #25
    Junior Member Oddwraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    The problem with your standard handheld tuner, is 95% of the people using them just plug in and answer yes/no questions to get a "tune". What you're talking about sounds more like a HPTuners program where you can drive around and plug right into a laptop. Gives you real time data and you're able to dial in everything imaginable. Personally I've never tuned a vehicle. Could I learn, sure, but I trust mine to someone who has done hundreds of them and has access to a dyno. But I suppose if I was still somewhat stock with minor bolt ons, I wouldn't want to pay that much for a dyno run.
    Well a dyno tune is the best way to tune, in combination with street tuning. But I just mean to say that a handheld can be effective in the right hands as well, and provide a "small" amount of learning. Hp tuners is a full software suite, and is not comparable to the handhelds in the amount of parameters that can be adjusted etc. HPtuners is handsdown more elaborate but requires one to learn a lot for it to be truly useful. With some handhelds (Diablosport for one that I know of) you can log cruising and wot data etc for review, as well as viewing it real time on the screen of the handheld (although this method doesnt seem to be as accurate as logging and then playing back on a pc). From there an individual can adjust settings based on their own vehicles needs etc. For the ability to adjust a full suite of parameters (like HPtuners that you mentioned) while using a handheld, one must visit a cmr dealer etc. or send them in a log of your data from your handheld via email. They in turn send you back a custom tune (using parameters the end user typically can't access via the handheld) suited for your vechicle. You can later still make adjustments and save individual tune files, much like HPtuners in that sense.

    I don't mean to sound like I know it all, and you are correct in asserting that the "canned" tunes are not optimal. But they can be useful tunes nonetheless and handhelds can show good gains and provide some learning imo. I hear Crane Vinci handhelds as well as a few others are decent too. Wow, sorry for the long windededededness.

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    well i got slp lid wit knn filter.slp mass air flow.everything els stock

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    Junior Member Oddwraith's Avatar
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    ^Yeah, if you haven't put on the mass air flow yet, don't bother. It's not worth its troubles (which it will cause) on any ls1 under 500 hp. My .02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    A lot of guys will change out the MAF, or modify it, thinking they will gain power. In reality, all you do is screw up your air-fuel ratio and possibly affect driveability. Stock MAF will take you to 500 hp.
    please stop spreading this. the stock muffler is good for 500hp but do you gain power with a aftermarket?


    "good to 500hp" what does that even mean? the electronics will handle 500hp? the flow? what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by disc0monkey View Post
    please stop spreading this. the stock muffler is good for 500hp but do you gain power with a aftermarket?


    "good to 500hp" what does that even mean? the electronics will handle 500hp? the flow? what?
    He's talking about the stock Mass Air Flow sensor. Not muffler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disc0monkey View Post
    please stop spreading this. the stock muffler is good for 500hp but do you gain power with a aftermarket?


    "good to 500hp" what does that even mean? the electronics will handle 500hp? the flow? what?
    MAF = Mass Air Flow sensor, not muffler.

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    Junior Member disc0monkey's Avatar
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    i know i was using the muffler as an example. can anyone explain to me what "good to" means?

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    Quote Originally Posted by disc0monkey View Post
    please stop spreading this. the stock muffler is good for 500hp but do you gain power with a aftermarket?


    "good to 500hp" what does that even mean? the electronics will handle 500hp? the flow? what?

    You can modify your engine with a cam, heads, intake, headers, etc. and still utilize the stock Mass Air Flow sensor up until about the 500 h.p. level. Meaning the unit has the ability to flow sufficient air into the engine to support this much power. This, combined with the fact that a lot of aftermarket units are not correctly calibrated, means that it is a complete waste of money to invest in an aftermarket MAF for 90% of us.

    BTW: Thanks Dena and P... I'm still playing catch up after a weekend at the new house.
    Last edited by pajeff02; 10-10-2010 at 06:26 PM.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    You can modify your engine with a cam, heads, intake, headers, etc. and still utilize the stock Mass Air Flow sensor up until about the 500 h.p. level. Meaning the unit has the ability to flow sufficient air into the engine to support this much power. This, combined with the fact that a lot of aftermarket units are not correctly calibrated, means that it is a complete waste of money to invest in an aftermarket MAF for 90% of us.

    BTW: Thanks Dena and P... I'm still playing catch up after a weekend at the new house.
    Well said. The stock MAF has enough airflow capacity, to about that 500 HP level, proven many times by many people who've not gotten any gain with an aftermarket unit.

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    Junior Member disc0monkey's Avatar
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    Im just curious as to why GM would even develop this new 85mm MAF then as they only have one 500hp engine and this 85mm MAF is on every GM V8 for a few years now.

    IMO the open area is less than 78mm on our stock MAF especially if you still have the screen. By installing a 85mm maf you are closer or more than the 78mm of the TB and lid. Therefore I would say there would be a gain. IF YOUR GOING TO GET TUNED ANYWAY! I would recommend getting a 85mm truck MAF for $35 shipped. I would expect to see at least 5rwhp on a bolt on car. Thats more HP/$ than a lid. I have one in my garage waiting for my next tuning session.

    A 3" exhaust is rated for 500hp don't you think we would pick up power if we installed a 4"?
    Last edited by disc0monkey; 10-11-2010 at 06:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disc0monkey View Post
    Im just curious as to why GM would even develop this new 85mm MAF then as they only have one 500hp engine and this 85mm MAF is on every GM V8 for a few years now.

    IMO the open area is less than 78mm on our stock MAF especially if you still have the screen. By installing a 85mm maf you are closer or more than the 78mm of the TB and lid. Therefore I would say there would be a gain. IF YOUR GOING TO GET TUNED ANYWAY! I would recommend getting a 85mm truck MAF for $35 shipped. I would expect to see at least 5rwhp on a bolt on car. Thats more HP/$ than a lid. I have one in my garage waiting for my next tuning session.

    A 3" exhaust is rated for 500hp don't you think we would pick up power if we installed a 4"?

    My stock MAF was de-bladed and de-screened when I purchased our car in 2008. It had an off idle stumble that was cured after installing the GM replacement MAF which is an 85 mm unit (see this thread: Mystery MAF? ) The replacement MAF is calibrated to match the stock 78 mm unit meaning it emits the same frequency to the PCM when flowing the same air. Yes, you can stuff more air through an 85 mm opening than a 78 mm opening, but the engine can only use as much as the combustion chambers can ingest.

    With an exhaust system, opening it up too much can actually decreases flow as it allows the hot fast moving gases to cool. It is better to size the system to the engine than to simply slap on bigger pipes. That being said, the stock system on our cars is actually not terrible. That is why the gains with a catback are fairly minimal as compared to other vehicles that have more restrictive stock systems.

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    Junior Member disc0monkey's Avatar
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    pajeff02 thanks that is great info!

    i saw on a different forum someone experimented and saw the same pressure drop between a stock lid/baffle as the stock MAF. So in my mind if your reducing pressure drop and seeing gains from an aftermarket lid, you will have similar results by reducing the pressure drop at the MAF to match the new lid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by disc0monkey View Post
    pajeff02 thanks that is great info!

    i saw on a different forum someone experimented and saw the same pressure drop between a stock lid/baffle as the stock MAF. So in my mind if your reducing pressure drop and seeing gains from an aftermarket lid, you will have similar results by reducing the pressure drop at the MAF to match the new lid.

    An aftermarket lid simply flows better than the stock unit. Aftermarket has a round outlet versus the stock piece with its narrow neck and helmholtz resonator assembly. The MAF will correctly meter whatever goes through it and that is why an aftermarket lid will usually result in a gain of 8-10 h.p.

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