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Weight Deduction

This is a discussion on Weight Deduction within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Sup guys, quick question I know theres not too much you can do to lighten these cars up without gettin ...

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    Member DVrec21's Avatar
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    Weight Deduction

    Sup guys, quick question I know theres not too much you can do to lighten these cars up without gettin too mechanical. My question is it worth taking out the spare tire and scissor jack located in the right rear side?? Or is it actually better for traction to have that extra weight in the rear? Even though it is on one side.
    I have an upcoming money run this weekend vs this kids 6.0 gto. any opinions would help.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVrec21 View Post
    Sup guys, quick question I know theres not too much you can do to lighten these cars up without gettin too mechanical. My question is it worth taking out the spare tire and scissor jack located in the right rear side?? Or is it actually better for traction to have that extra weight in the rear? Even though it is on one side.
    I have an upcoming money run this weekend vs this kids 6.0 gto. any opinions would help.
    Stock vs. stock you should beat the GTO anyway.

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    Member DVrec21's Avatar
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    I've got slp intake, slp LT's, slp y-pipe into a stock axle back. dynoed 331whp, 347wtq after tune. Have 3.73s on 255 directional pattern tires.

    He's got 06 goat with intake, exhaust, tune, and gears dont know what. and obviously the stock 275s. he also has a set of really beat drag radials he isnt sure he'll be useing. my car hooks up pretty good for having 255s.

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    Member DVrec21's Avatar
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    My friend says i should make the car lighter though, and my first move would be the spare and jack. he tells me to do this but Im not sure since the weight is in the rear.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    The best approach to lighten any car (especially running street tires) is to remove the weight from the front of the car.

    Removing the spare tire, rear seat, and other stuff like that will more than likely hurt you more than help you on a street tire.

    I've run mine at the track several times, full spare, full tank of gas, and usually carrying an extra 100 lbs of balast in the trunk in the form of a cooler packed with ice and drinks, laptop for last minute tuning, a lawn chair or two etc.... I don't bother to empty the trunk.

    I've done alot of street tire class racing, and found that weight in the back of the car far outweighed any penalties of carrying it down the track, to an extent, meaning you only need enough to hook. This along with suspension tricks (which sounds like you don't have time for) seem to work well enough.

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    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    So maybe I should leave my subwoofer/amplifier setup in the back of my car when I make a money run this weekend against this 5.0 coupe?

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    I would if you plan to run a street tire.

    Not only do we do things like leave the spare tire in the trunk, we also filled it with water for extra ballast. If you run the same size tire and wheel on all four corners, weigh each wheel and put the heavier ones on the back. Surprisingly you'll find that even though the wheels and tires are all the same, some do tend to differ slightly in weight.
    I've got a pocket full of tricks to make a street tire hook, did it for years. I should make a list since this question seems to be asked alot lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I've got a pocket full of tricks to make a street tire hook, did it for years. I should make a list since this question seems to be asked alot lately.

    ^^ Subscribed.


    OP: I ditch my spare, jack and hatch cover at the track. However, I am running Hoosier QTP's and hooking at the line is not an issue. You can drop your air pressure in the back to around 25 psi and inflate your fronts up to 40 psi. Just make sure to get back to the recommended pressures when you leave the track.

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    Member DVrec21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I would if you plan to run a street tire.

    Not only do we do things like leave the spare tire in the trunk, we also filled it with water for extra ballast. If you run the same size tire and wheel on all four corners, weigh each wheel and put the heavier ones on the back. Surprisingly you'll find that even though the wheels and tires are all the same, some do tend to differ slightly in weight.
    I've got a pocket full of tricks to make a street tire hook, did it for years. I should make a list since this question seems to be asked alot lately.
    This guy is GENIUS!!!!

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    Member DVrec21's Avatar
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    Does lowering the tire pressure on the street with street tires benefit the same as at the track?? I have friends with these fantasy theories about car stuff, and most of it i just dont know about. I do know that with slicks at the track low tire pressure is mandatory, but should i run like 25psi in the rear and just regular 30psi up front??

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    No.

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    Rockin the Ruckus! 02Sweet's Avatar
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    There are a lot of things you can remove for weight reduction. It's just a matter of how crazy you want to go.

    But Firebird is right weight in the back is key. If you are going to remove weight do it in the FRONT of the car first.

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    Senior Member Schmalgar's Avatar
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    We've been talking about carbon fiber hoods and panels on another thread... A carbon fiber hood and fenders in the front alone could shave off some serious pounds according to the websites.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVrec21 View Post
    This guy is GENIUS!!!!
    Na, I just raced around alot of guys that took weight reduction to extremes, so I learned alot of tricks from them.
    Keep in mind we had to stay within the rules. One of which meant the car had to maintain it's completely stock appearance, so we had to get creative.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmalgar View Post
    We've been talking about carbon fiber hoods and panels on another thread... A carbon fiber hood and fenders in the front alone could shave off some serious pounds according to the websites.
    Yep, you can go nuts with this stuff.

    On a 4th gen there is alot of places to remove weight, some of which might not comply with impact standards. Depends on what you want.

    I'd start in the front with simple stuff, like the battery. It had to stay in the stock location per rules so.......
    One thing we did, when time to shop for a new battery, I'd take the scale with me to the auto parts stores. Start weighing batteries. Once you explain why to the counter guy, usually they are more than willing to assist. Otherwise they might look at ya kinda funny I'd weigh every batter they had in the size required for the car, pick the lightest one that has enough cold cranking amps to do the job. You would be surprised at the tremendous weight differences in batteries. As much as 8-10 lbs on some.
    Some of the serious guys would take this a step further by taking an old battery and gutting it. Using the outer case to hide a much smaller (motorcycle size) battery underneath. The cables would still attach to the original battery terminals on the outside keeping the completely stock appearance, but underneath there were cables running to the smaller battery.
    You wind up with a battery that weighs 5 lbs. verses 20-25 lbs yet it still looks stock.

    Keeping the stock appearance here on the 4th gens really isn't the theme, as most don't care or don't race within structured rules.

    With that said you can do things like a tubular K-member, tubular headers are lighter than manifolds, off road Y's are lighter than the converter setups. These are all simple things off the front of the car.
    Running an auto?? Smaller 9-10 inch converters are much lighter than the factory 13 inch converter. That's also rotational mass removed.
    It's up to the owner whether they want to deal with removing air bags and all the related wiring for it. You can do the same with ABS brakes, the AIR pump. You can remove your shock obsorbing bumper braces (they are heavy) and replace them with aluminum.
    Did you know cross drilled and slotted rotors are about 1.5 lbs. lighter than a blank rotor?? That's 6 more lbs. of rotational mass removed as well as overall weight. Wheels and tires both fall under this catagory as well as driveshafts, rearends with gun drilled axles and light weight spools etc....
    Check out the weight on tires next time you are shopping. Different brand tires vary quite a bit in weight, even though they are the same sizes.
    Most of this is weight removed over the nose. You can go on and on throughout the entire car, gutting things, swiss cheesing other things. But to get really in depth with tricks you are starting to reach the relm of a purpose built car.
    It really comes down to how much you want to spend and how much you want to keep the car a creature comfort cruiser.

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    Member joedude02's Avatar
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    A.I.R. delete? weighs like a pound or two, that's a start. maybe even unbolt your front sway bar for better weight transfer on the lift to help minimize wheel hop or just take it off....

    always felt a difference after a fresh oil change and rear end oil change, so definitely change some fluids. although there is debate on which is better or more durable using regular or synthetic gear oil. i'll stop before i go too far off topic. google is your friend and use the search on this site because there is some great info here.
    Last edited by joedude02; 12-01-2010 at 09:48 AM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Ya, I ran in pure stock, and we still liked to drive the car on the street quite a bit (still do) so I never took the weight reduction to extremes on our car. But what I did do was only for the purpose of hooking the car up on the tiny F70-14 bias ply tires that only have a 6 inch contact patch and are roughly 27 inches tall.
    Our rules also required the car keeps all the stock casting numbers, stock cubic inches etc...so you didn't have much wiggle room inside the motor either, unlike the F.A.S.T. guys, where pretty much anything inside and not visible is fair game.

    Keeping it stock appearing also meant the front sway bar has to stay intact and functional. So most of my tricks revolved around the suspension to make it work, all while keeping it looking stock.

    On the front sway bar, since it had to appear functional, we simply spaced down the frame brackets about 1/4 inch so the bracket wasn't squishing the rubber bushings. We would also hone out the bushings and install them with graphite grease. This allowed the sway bar to move freely up and down, which gave weight transfer, yet it still appeared to be hooked up and functional.
    We took the same approach with front control arms. Honing the insides of the bushings enough to create a little movement, and assemble with graphite grease.
    Some guys would install 90-10 shocks and paint them factory colors to look stock. I didn't do that. I simply bought oil filled shocks, they are much looser than gas filled. Some people would drain the oil, I didn't go to that extreme either. Like I said we still street drive this car.
    We were allowed to clamp the leaf springs (on leaf spring cars) which I did, but no traction devices were allowed. I can also preload the right side with a short spring leaf installed on the front half of the right spring,,and hide it with the front spring clamps. Since the rearend has a natural tendancy to lift the right rear tire under accelleration. Can't see it, and still looks stock.
    I also run 4* shims between the springs and the rear housing to give me the pinion angle needed ( I wound up with 3* down) which works well on this car. That's about it for the suspension tricks on my car.

    This coupled with a full tank of gas, water sometimes in the spare tire, has allowed the car to run 1.8x 60 foot times on stock F70-14's.

    You could take this to extremes if you wanted to, some guys imply all the tricks and are cutting sub 1.7 60 foot times on the same size tires.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Here is another little tidbit. I didn't do this but it used to be pretty common.

    They would machine the rotors and drums down to minimum thickness to cut weight, (rotational mass as well) and the drum brakes would be backed off for little to no drag.
    4 wheel drum cars had an advantage here as well, not only reduced drag, but drum brakes are lighter than disc brake setups.

    I'll share more later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joedude02 View Post
    A.I.R. delete? weighs like a pound or two, that's a start.

    The entire system weighs in around 8-10 lbs. You have the intake hose, air pump, pump bracket, studs, output hose, diverter valve, feed hoses, vacuum solenoid, check valves, and manifold piping that can all be removed.

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    Member Faught's Avatar
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    i dont have anything to add but you want a weight reduction not DEduction lol

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