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Pony Car Drag Race - V8 and V6

This is a discussion on Pony Car Drag Race - V8 and V6 within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by konigandy6 Let us all not forget this is just a stock vs. stock race. Look at the ...

  1. #41
    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    Let us all not forget this is just a stock vs. stock race. Look at the aftermarket for both cars. The 5.0 is still a OHC engine, and the LS3/L99 is a pushrod motor. Which one do you think will take to bolt ons more than the other. Same story as years prior me thinks.
    I don't know man, it's going to be pretty close. I mean just look at the Evolution performance GT, the car made 406rwhp with just a midpipe, tune, and catback, and with the addition of slicks it ran a 11.8x in the 1/4. I think this time around things will be a bit different than before.

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    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    I don't know man, it's going to be pretty close. I mean just look at the Evolution performance GT, the car made 406rwhp with just a midpipe, tune, and catback, and with the addition of slicks it ran a 11.8x in the 1/4. I think this time around things will be a bit different than before.
    be careful of the 2011 V6 .. that little engine is amazing .. and is putting down 1/4 mile times 14 @104 stock .... needing some taller gears only 3.31, CAI and a tune .. thing will be sick....

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    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaggeltooth View Post
    be careful of the 2011 V6 .. that little engine is amazing .. and is putting down 1/4 mile times 14 @104 stock .... needing some taller gears only 3.31, CAI and a tune .. thing will be sick....
    Very true.

    And if you think about it, the new V6 stang is actually right up there with the 99-04 GT's, pretty crazy, stout little cars for sure.

    And to get back on topic.

    Heres a 5th gen with pretty similar mods as the 5.0 GT that Evolution Performance has, i'm not impressed by this at all though, much bigger motor, pretty much the same mods, has a bit more mod-wise as a matter of fact (this car even has a little weight reduction I saw it on another board a while ago, weighs like 3750), and it's running pretty much the same times as the GT with just slicks, clutch, midpipe, catback+tune. Just not impressive to me, at all.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3T0SMWlIw8[/ame]
    Last edited by Transamws6; 05-09-2010 at 03:27 PM.

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    The 60* v6 in the 2010 Camaro is nothing short of awesome imho. I also think it should have done far better then it did in the vid. Those motors (as can all 60*v6's) can run over 7000 rpm all day, most people (espescially magazine and show tests) never run the 60* hard enough. If you're shifting it like it's a 90* v6 you're going to loose.. 60* v6 make their power higher in the revs than the old 90* motors. 304 hp n/a is impressive from a v6 stock. Imagine the potential... Tho they should have built a 4-cam like the LQ1. The 660 will live foreva!
    Last edited by Smittro; 05-09-2010 at 05:21 PM.
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    Member Lethal Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    Let us all not forget this is just a stock vs. stock race. Look at the aftermarket for both cars. The 5.0 is still a OHC engine, and the LS3/L99 is a pushrod motor. Which one do you think will take to bolt ons more than the other. Same story as years prior me thinks.
    Very true, the pushrod motors definatley respond better to bolt ons over the mod engines. With that being said, you know like I do that the mod of choice for the modular engines is supercharging.

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    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    Very true, the pushrod motors definatley respond better to bolt ons over the mod engines. With that being said, you know like I do that the mod of choice for the modular engines is supercharging.
    you are judging the 5.0 as if it is the 4.6 .. Two totally different engines .. Like Comparing a 327 and LS1...

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    Member Lethal Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaggeltooth View Post
    you are judging the 5.0 as if it is the 4.6 .. Two totally different engines .. Like Comparing a 327 and LS1...
    These are two totally different engines but what does that have to do with anything. And just for the record the new 5.0 actually shares the same footprint of the 4.6L and in fact has the same deck height and bore spacing.
    Modular engines respond well to supercharging, thats a fact. Are you saying the ford guys won't look into this because this engine is not the same as the 4.6?

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    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    These are two totally different engines but what does that have to do with anything. And just for the record the new 5.0 actually shares the same footprint of the 4.6L and in fact has the same deck height and bore spacing.
    Modular engines respond well to supercharging, thats a fact. Are you saying the ford guys won't look into this because this engine is not the same as the 4.6?
    Im just saying you had to SC to get any real HP out of the 4.6 , unlike the 5.0 which comes with at least 412HP stock ..

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    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    These are two totally different engines but what does that have to do with anything. And just for the record the new 5.0 actually shares the same footprint of the 4.6L and in fact has the same deck height and bore spacing.
    Modular engines respond well to supercharging, thats a fact. Are you saying the ford guys won't look into this because this engine is not the same as the 4.6?
    Yes, they are two totally different engines, and that has to do with everything.

    Did you not see the Evolution Performance GT?? It made 406rwhp, and it didn't even have full bolt on's, with the addition of a basic tune. I think these new 5.0's will be able to make some decent power N/A, you need to realize things have changed, this isn't some 4.6 2V we are talking about here. I think the LSX series motors have some serious competition on their hands.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    Yes, they are two totally different engines, and that has to do with everything.

    Did you not see the Evolution Performance GT?? It made 406rwhp, and it didn't even have full bolt on's, with the addition of a basic tune. I think these new 5.0's will be able to make some decent power N/A, you need to realize things have changed, this isn't some 4.6 2V we are talking about here. I think the LSX series motors have some serious competition on their hands.
    I definitely agree with you there, I was simply stating that history has shown the LSX motors tend to see more gains out of simple bolt ons. Since it was already agreed in this thread that it's a drivers toss up stock vs. stock (assuming you have an LS3 and not the auto L99) We can assume the LS3 will see more power out of the same bolt ons as the 5.0. Do I know this for a fact? No. But just comparing engines and history, my sources point to yes.
    Last edited by konigandy6; 05-10-2010 at 02:33 PM.

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    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    I defenitely agree with you there, I was simply stating that history has shown the LSX motors tend to see more gains out of simple bolt ons. Since it was already agreed in this thread that it's a drivers toss up stock vs. stock (assuming you have an LS3 and not the auto L99) We can assume the LS3 will see more power out of the same bolt ons as the 5.0. Do I know this for a fact? No. But just comparing engines and history, my sources point to yes.
    Yea, that makes since man.

    We'll just have to see this time around though. Things are looking a lot different than before so far. And in the end of this whole thing, it's a win/win situation for both Ford and Chevy as competition breeds improvement.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    Yea, that makes since man.

    We'll just have to see this time around though. Things are looking a lot different than before so far. And in the end of this whole thing, it's a win/win situation for both Ford and Chevy as competition breeds improvement.
    Definitely! I'm looking forward to seeing what GM and Ford come up with in the next couple of years that's for sure! As it stands now, both vehicles look to be winners. Even though a lot of people don't like the stylings of the 5th gen or the Mustang. Time will tell.

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    Member Lethal Z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    Yes, they are two totally different engines, and that has to do with everything.

    Did you not see the Evolution Performance GT?? It made 406rwhp, and it didn't even have full bolt on's, with the addition of a basic tune. I think these new 5.0's will be able to make some decent power N/A, you need to realize things have changed, this isn't some 4.6 2V we are talking about here. I think the LSX series motors have some serious competition on their hands.
    I need to realize some things have changed? No one has advocated more that this new 5.0 engine is serious competition with respect to performance, weight and price. Anybody with 5 cents worth of common sense realizes that this is not the same engine as a 4.6L. So yes somethings have changed but then again some things haven't. Like all gear heads GM and Ford guys want a leg up on the competition. What do you think? Ford guys will go out and buy this 2011 GT and leave it stock? "I got 412hp no need to do any modding here." Yeah right dream on, you believe that and your delusional. As you can see from the many threads on the debate between these two cars bone stock its a pretty close race. Ford guys say the edge is in there favor GM guys argue the edge is in theres. I guarantee as soon as these cars start hitting garages no one will be content especially with the competition being that close. The hunt will be on for more ponies to crush any local competition. When camaros start getting into the hands of more of us gear heads the aftermarket for bolt on will go nuts.

    And Ford? You say the 4.6 and the 5.0 are two totally different motors? They are, but they share one very important thing in common. Both motors make power much later in the powerband and are deep breathing engines. Supercharging rectifys this problem tremendously, and turns an already deep breathing engine into a monster. Bolt ons won't do for a mod motor what it will do for the LS engine plus its ungodly expensive. Supercharging is the easiest and most effective way to make power on a modular motor, that fact HAS NOT CHANGED. Don't you think for one minute that the ford guys are gonna go home and be content with 412hp while your at home adding bolt ons to your new camaro. Guys like you are in for a very rude awakening.
    Last edited by Lethal Z; 05-11-2010 at 08:02 AM.

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    Senior Member Transamws6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    I need to realize some things have changed? No one has advocated more that this new 5.0 engine is serious competition with respect to performance, weight and price. Anybody with 5 cents worth of common sense realizes that this is not the same engine as a 4.6L. So yes somethings have changed but then again some things haven't. Like all gear heads GM and Ford guys want a leg up on the competition. What do you think? Ford guys will go out and buy this 2011 GT and leave it stock? "I got 412hp no need to do any modding here." Yeah right dream on, you believe that and your delusional. As you can see from the many threads on the debate between these two cars bone stock its a pretty close race. Ford guys say the edge is in there favor GM guys argue the edge is in theres. I guarantee as soon as these cars start hitting garages no one will be content especially with the competition being that close. The hunt will be on for more ponies to crush any local competition. When camaros start getting into the hands of more of us gear heads the aftermarket for bolt on will go nuts.

    And Ford? You say the 4.6 and the 5.0 are two totally different motors? They are, but they share one very important thing in common. Both motors make power much later in the powerband and are deep breathing engines. Supercharging rectifys this problem tremendously, and turns an already deep breathing engine into a monster. Bolt ons won't do for a mod motor what it will do for the LS engine plus its ungodly expensive. Supercharging is the easiest and most effective way to make power on a modular motor, that fact HAS NOT CHANGED. Don't you think for one minute that the ford guys are gonna go home and be content with 412hp while your at home adding bolt ons to your new camaro. Guys like you are in for a very rude awakening.
    I'm not sure where you are trying to go with all of this unnecessary babbling that I am quoting above me. I never said anything about how I think the Ford guys are going to leave the new 5.0 stock because it has 412hp. That is an absolute idiotic assumption.

    But maybe I could have worded my previous comment towards you a bit differently. You still obviously think that mod motors will need FI to make decent power. I disagree with that. I was reffering back to the Evolution performance GT that made 406rwhp just from a midpipe, catback and a tune, which was a big gain from the 368 or so rwhp it has stock. Just judging by the minor mods Evolution performance installed on the 11' GT, this 5.0 mod motor may not need FI like the previous mod motors did.

    That is all I was trying to say, again, I have no idea where you were trying to go with all of the extra stuff that I am quoting above me

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    Stay on topic, settle down, no flame wars.... or you will be excused from this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    . You still obviously think that mod motors will need FI to make decent power. I disagree with that.
    Let me say this again,

    "No one has advocated more that this new 5.0 engine is serious competition with respect to performance, weight and price. "

    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    .
    I was reffering back to the Evolution performance GT that made 406rwhp just from a midpipe, catback and a tune, which was a big gain from the 368 or so rwhp it has stock. Just judging by the minor mods Evolution performance installed on the 11' GT, this 5.0 mod motor may not need FI like the previous mod motors did.

    That is all I was trying to say, again, I have no idea where you were trying to go with all of the extra stuff that I am quoting above me
    You don't remember this comment?

    Quote Originally Posted by Transamws6 View Post
    .
    Did you not see the Evolution Performance GT?? It made 406rwhp, and it didn't even have full bolt on's, with the addition of a basic tune. I think these new 5.0's will be able to make some decent power N/A, you need to realize things have changed, this isn't some 4.6 2V we are talking about here. I think the LSX series motors have some serious competition on their hands.
    Yesterday 12:51 PM
    There will be plenty of folks who are satisfied with the results of the Evolution performance GT. Those are great numbers for a NA car. For others it won't be enough. My point in mentioning FI is this, for some 406RWHP will not be enough. 400rwhp is becoming the new 300rwhp. Everyone will be pushing 400rwhp before long and there are those will want more. This is where I was going before you jumped in.

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    Senior Member justinmc978's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    400rwhp is becoming the new 300rwhp. Everyone will be pushing 400rwhp before long and there are those will want more.
    its frightening. as many clueless mommy and daddy money students that have new cars here, and that also drive like speedy ricers idiots. a day when they are all cruising in vehicles with 300-400rwhp, FFFUU.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmc978 View Post
    its frightening. as many clueless mommy and daddy money students that have new cars here, and that also drive like speedy ricers idiots. a day when they are all cruising in vehicles with 300-400rwhp, FFFUU.jpg
    I agree .. today cars dont have that kick you in the chest feeling like my 455 Formy did .. but you are going a lot faster than you think ...

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    Logic says the diff gears are better in the GT along with the gear box. They are lighter weight. Ford Finally got the 6spd in and put to rest the ond 5spd that should have been done years ago on all models. I think the new V6 and 5.0 will be a force to be reconed with after a few minor bolt ons, tweaks, and a tune. I think it may be more than drivers race
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    Our 2011 Mustang GT 5.0L 4V (5.0 Mustang and Super Fords Magazine Project Car) made 405 RWHP and 375 RWTQ with the addition of an Off-Road X-Pipe, Catback Exhaust System, K&N Drop In Filter, and a Custom Tune! That's a gain of 36 RWHP and 23 RWTQ! That's not bad but we're still working on some other changes in the tune...

    Thats the Evolution mustangs specs , has the 3.31s too ...anybody have a clue on how much those mods might cost .. just pieces not installed ???

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