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Mustang 5.0 vs 4th gen??

This is a discussion on Mustang 5.0 vs 4th gen?? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Ya see heres my problem with this... I bought my car because it is what it is... I wanted a ...

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    Ya see heres my problem with this... I bought my car because it is what it is... I wanted a drag car and i got one of the best ones out there... Only 9000 dollars and i added about 900 to 1000 dollars in upgrades and for only 10000 dollars i got a car that hits 12s easy with bad launches... If you want to spend 30000 dollars for a Mustang thats "new" go ahead for that amount of money i could redo all the paint imperfections put a 427 or bigger motor in it put a transmition and rear end in and some suspencion upgrades and still have money to spend... so go ahead and buy a new car and know that my car will still kick your cars ass for a lot less money :-)

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    And here is my response to you. I can buy a 89 rustbucket 5l with factory forged pistons and hit it with a 200 shot of nitrous. I would run hour camaro down any day of the week. Then what would you say? But your camaro is this And your camaro is that. Exactly my point. Looks aRe subjective so some like the z others the maro. Fact is the stang like ride 10000x better. ProbAbly sound 1000x better. The stang has an exhaust system with a mold in the floor to fit a dual exhaust. 4 th gen owners should hang their heads at that fact. Magazines rave about the mustangs handling. They laughed T the 4 th gen. The interior is 1000x better. A mustang owner doesn't Need to say ANYTHING if he loses to a 4 th gen. He's still driving a better car stock to stock. If uou really think speed is everything I can bolt a rocket to a big wheel and smoke you too!

    It's also pretty stupid to say they have traction problems. There are just so many variables to take into acount. Sure a gt500 has traction problems. It has a suspension that is designed to handle. Couple that with puny 9 inch rims and a supercharged motor and garbage oem tires and it's a recipe for tirespin. Put on stupid drag suspension and a big tire and slick and you get what you see in mustang monthly every month which is every one of those gt500s running 10s with less than 1k of bolt ons. A 4th hen can't touch that sorry.


    Now to sAy a 5l will have traction problems is stupid as we'll. What some of you need to understand is applied torque to the wheels. If An engine makes 412 hp it doesn't mean it makes 412 from idle to redline and will spin the tires more than the 4.6. In fact it could be the opposite. The power band is moved upwards in the rpm range which means that when peak acceleration is achieved in the lower gears the cAr will likely be moving at a faster rate which means less wheelspin. Go to 4000 rpm in a stock 4 th gen revv her up and drop the clutch and uou will know what I mean. At that speed there isn't enough torque to spin the tires. This is why rpm is king. You can gear a car to give you torque multiplication which is more Applied torque To the wheels but gears can't give you horsepower.

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    Lots of errors in thereill correct them when I get Ina pc. Still getting used to this iPhone !

    Mybottom line is the 5l is a huge step in the right direction for ford. No need to compare our 4th gens to it. In a couple of years the maro will be extinct again ang the stang will still be there you'll see

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    And here is my response to you. I can buy a 89 rustbucket 5l with factory forged pistons and hit it with a 200 shot of nitrous. I would run hour camaro down any day of the week. Then what would you say? But your camaro is this And your camaro is that. Exactly my point. Looks aRe subjective so some like the z others the maro. Fact is the stang like ride 10000x better. ProbAbly sound 1000x better. The stang has an exhaust system with a mold in the floor to fit a dual exhaust. 4 th gen owners should hang their heads at that fact. Magazines rave about the mustangs handling. They laughed T the 4 th gen. The interior is 1000x better. A mustang owner doesn't Need to say ANYTHING if he loses to a 4 th gen. He's still driving a better car stock to stock. If uou really think speed is everything I can bolt a rocket to a big wheel and smoke you too!

    It's also pretty stupid to say they have traction problems. There are just so many variables to take into acount. Sure a gt500 has traction problems. It has a suspension that is designed to handle. Couple that with puny 9 inch rims and a supercharged motor and garbage oem tires and it's a recipe for tirespin. Put on stupid drag suspension and a big tire and slick and you get what you see in mustang monthly every month which is every one of those gt500s running 10s with less than 1k of bolt ons. A 4th hen can't touch that sorry.


    Now to sAy a 5l will have traction problems is stupid as we'll. What some of you need to understand is applied torque to the wheels. If An engine makes 412 hp it doesn't mean it makes 412 from idle to redline and will spin the tires more than the 4.6. In fact it could be the opposite. The power band is moved upwards in the rpm range which means that when peak acceleration is achieved in the lower gears the cAr will likely be moving at a faster rate which means less wheelspin. Go to 4000 rpm in a stock 4 th gen revv her up and drop the clutch and uou will know what I mean. At that speed there isn't enough torque to spin the tires. This is why rpm is king. You can gear a car to give you torque multiplication which is more Applied torque To the wheels but gears can't give you horsepower.
    I do like the older fox bodies you mentioned. I wouldn't mind having one of those just to play around with. Great platform to build from.

    As far as traction goes, I think that discussion originated from a pair of cars racing from a dig. Any car that makes decent power will have tire spin issues on stock rubber in that case. It's really a matter of who can drive the car more effectively.

    I can burn rubber for a city block in my 1 ton pickup, but it doesn't mean it will beat any of our other cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    And here is my response to you. I can buy a 89 rustbucket 5l with factory forged pistons and hit it with a 200 shot of nitrous. I would run hour camaro down any day of the week. Then what would you say? But your camaro is this And your camaro is that. Exactly my point. Looks aRe subjective so some like the z others the maro. Fact is the stang like ride 10000x better. ProbAbly sound 1000x better. The stang has an exhaust system with a mold in the floor to fit a dual exhaust. 4 th gen owners should hang their heads at that fact. Magazines rave about the mustangs handling. They laughed T the 4 th gen. The interior is 1000x better. A mustang owner doesn't Need to say ANYTHING if he loses to a 4 th gen. He's still driving a better car stock to stock. If uou really think speed is everything I can bolt a rocket to a big wheel and smoke you too!
    What the hell are you talking about? Your argument is all over the place, if your gonna join in conversation at least stick to the subject and use some punctuation and spelling for crying out loud. Fox bodies are decent platforms if thats your bag I've owned a couple and a few sn95s. Guess what the suspension sucks in all of them, exact same suspension in the ford fairmount. If you think it holds a candle to a 4 gen F-body your crazy. As far as sounds and looks go thats all subjective as well. Fox bodies are fun to build but in stock form there 225hp which is pathetic. You have to dump a ton of money into them to make them fast and often after the best HCI setups you still get your doors blown off by stock LS1's. Been there done that, moving on.

    I'll agree with you on one point, GM better get there head out of there butts or the camaro may indeed be extict again. I ain't paying $40 grand for nobodys camaro. My solution take all the crap off of it and produce a stripped down version with a V8 engine and 6 speed manual and you will sell the crap out of them.
    Last edited by Lethal Z; 02-14-2010 at 11:25 AM.

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    aye sorry for the errors its friggin hard to type on the iphone. For some reason i tried to spell check and I couldnt scroll back up in my post lol. Was just trying to say that a new 5L is worth $30k.

    Maybe to the 1 person who just wants the best bang for the buck and doesnt care to compare all the qualities of an old vs new car the 4th gen is a winner.

    My argument was speed, power and e.ts aren't everything, and it it was so important there are a million ways to go faster than a 4th gen for the money.

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    i think the 4 gen has it. mustangs just arent fast. no matter how much horse. they just dont race good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    To me when comparing apples to apples, year differences don't come into play so much. I try to keep it simple.

    Such as NA verses NA, stock verses stock, etc....

    Whether the new stang has 10 years advantage in technoligy over a 4th gen doesn't matter, because we choose to drive these 4th gens and be behind the 8 ball, but we don't have to. I'm not going to make excuses when one of my 4th gens get beat,,,who cares. There is always something out there faster, whether a new car or a 40 year old muscle car. I'm not saying you are making excuses, but that sure sounds like one scenario,,,"well his car is 10 years newer with better technoligy" I've never let that stop me before.

    Run what ya brung,,,know what I mean??? If it wasn't enough, then maybe we should go out and buy a new mustang
    All kidding aside, it will be interesting to see how they run in real conditions.
    I'm not saying the age of the car is an excuse. Just that I see nothing wrong with running an older modified car against a new stock car or a new modified car and calling it fair. Somebody always has more money to throw at it. I always loved it when I ran my 78 Z28 against the 4th gen Camaros. They always assumed my old car would be slower.
    I have a few mods on my 4th gen now. Do I try to take the ocassional Corvette. You bet, sometimes I lose and sometimes I win. I think that in this case, just like with the new Mustang vs. the 4th gen, a lot of it will come down to the drivers.
    Its all in the name of fun anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5abivt View Post
    And here is my response to you. I can buy a 89 rustbucket 5l with factory forged pistons and hit it with a 200 shot of nitrous. I would run hour camaro down any day of the week. Then what would you say? But your camaro is this And your camaro is that. Exactly my point. Looks aRe subjective so some like the z others the maro. Fact is the stang like ride 10000x better. ProbAbly sound 1000x better. The stang has an exhaust system with a mold in the floor to fit a dual exhaust. 4 th gen owners should hang their heads at that fact. Magazines rave about the mustangs handling. They laughed T the 4 th gen. The interior is 1000x better. A mustang owner doesn't Need to say ANYTHING if he loses to a 4 th gen. He's still driving a better car stock to stock. If uou really think speed is everything I can bolt a rocket to a big wheel and smoke you too!

    It's also pretty stupid to say they have traction problems. There are just so many variables to take into acount. Sure a gt500 has traction problems. It has a suspension that is designed to handle. Couple that with puny 9 inch rims and a supercharged motor and garbage oem tires and it's a recipe for tirespin. Put on stupid drag suspension and a big tire and slick and you get what you see in mustang monthly every month which is every one of those gt500s running 10s with less than 1k of bolt ons. A 4th hen can't touch that sorry.


    Now to sAy a 5l will have traction problems is stupid as we'll. What some of you need to understand is applied torque to the wheels. If An engine makes 412 hp it doesn't mean it makes 412 from idle to redline and will spin the tires more than the 4.6. In fact it could be the opposite. The power band is moved upwards in the rpm range which means that when peak acceleration is achieved in the lower gears the cAr will likely be moving at a faster rate which means less wheelspin. Go to 4000 rpm in a stock 4 th gen revv her up and drop the clutch and uou will know what I mean. At that speed there isn't enough torque to spin the tires. This is why rpm is king. You can gear a car to give you torque multiplication which is more Applied torque To the wheels but gears can't give you horsepower.
    Itsounds to me like your bashing on the 4th gens..... and making the stangs out to be all that. A 4th gen is the real muscle car any day. Finally ford has a comparable model and they only did that by using DOHC and Variable valve timing. The only mustangs that handled better were post 2005. And all they are is glorified grocery getters. The 5.0 will change it up but its not the best thing ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10spokess View Post
    Ya see heres my problem with this... I bought my car because it is what it is... I wanted a drag car and i got one of the best ones out there... Only 9000 dollars and i added about 900 to 1000 dollars in upgrades and for only 10000 dollars i got a car that hits 12s easy with bad launches... If you want to spend 30000 dollars for a Mustang thats "new" go ahead for that amount of money i could redo all the paint imperfections put a 427 or bigger motor in it put a transmition and rear end in and some suspencion upgrades and still have money to spend... so go ahead and buy a new car and know that my car will still kick your cars ass for a lot less money :-)
    so are you suggesting no one ever buy another new car because they are more expensive than used cars? at the time your camaro came out there were stuff that was cheaper but could be made faster... for $250k i could build a lot of cars that are faster than a Ferrari, but if i could afford it id get one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mpfranks View Post
    so are you suggesting no one ever buy another new car because they are more expensive than used cars? at the time your camaro came out there were stuff that was cheaper but could be made faster... for $250k i could build a lot of cars that are faster than a Ferrari, but if i could afford it id get one.
    No im just saying thats the reason i bought my car... thats not the only reason either cause i am partial to camaros but i was just summing it up and i know that there is always a faster car no matter what you do but i love my camaro and i wouldnt give it up for the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Z View Post
    Guess what the suspension sucks in all of them, exact same suspension in the ford fairmount. If you think it holds a candle to a 4 gen F-body your crazy. As far as sounds and looks go thats all subjective as well. Fox bodies are fun to build but in stock form there 225hp which is pathetic. You have to dump a ton of money into them to make them fast and often after the best HCI setups you still get your doors blown off by stock LS1's.
    Don't know what part of the country you're from, but where I grew up in Ohio, the Fox bodies are nothing to sneeze at nowadays.
    Don't need to dump a ton of money in them either. You can pick those things up dirt cheap now,,,and it's a better platform to start with than a 4th gen. Lighter platform, better/stronger rearend with a 4 link setup...Aftermarket support out the wazzoo. I can certainly build one cheaper than a 4th gen and run just as fast. It's why they are so popular in street car / NMCA racing classes. Often referred to as the 57 chevy or 69 camaro for the modern generation. Cheap and popular to build from.
    There are a ton of them running 331's/347's, coupled with a good head (trickflows are popular for them) they make enough power on motor only to hit 11's. I have several friends back in ohio that drove them daily. 347 builds at the machine shop I worked at was their bread and butter. We had at least 3 in different stages of build any given day of the week. I can't begin to tell you how many fox bodies were running around with 347's in them. They are just at that age where engine rebuilds are the norm, and the 347 stroker package makes sense. Hardly any with a stockish 302 anymore. Lets face it, these cars are over 20 years old now.
    You just never know what you were up against when you found one on the street.
    If you were building them and still getting your doors blown by stock 4th gens,,,,by god you weren't doing something right
    You must be talking about just throwing some bolt on's on one and calling it done??? Maybe when they were new. Those days are gone, at their age most are well beyond the bolt on stage now.

    Buy one cheap, you can pick up the 86-90 models for $2k or less. Since they are 20+ years old now they are dirt cheap. Who cares about mileage. Build a 347 stroker setup right along with a decent trans, the rear is strong enough, gears and a good posi with aftermarket axles gets the job done. A few suspension tricks and you are on your way to 11's no sweat, for roughly 6-7 grand.

    You aren't going to build a 4th gen for that. When you figure even a well used 4th gen to start with will cost $7 grand easily, if not more. A rearend is $3,000 right off the bat to make it comparable to what you get in a fox body.
    If you are lucky you can get by with a cam/head package on the stock high mileage block. But we are already well over the cost of a fox body build. And if the 4th gen needs a shortblock that's more money.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the 4th gens. (have 2 of them) But the platform isn't exactly friendly, rears are weak with a goofy torque arm panhard bar design making rear selection limited to the aftermarket unless you backhalf the car. They are also fairly heavy in stock form. And lets face it,,, LS motors are not cheap to build either. Quite frankly they just haven't had the luxury of being around for the last 40-50 years like the gen1 small block chevys and fords, so parts prices haven't come down much. GM didn't exactly make the LS parts swap friendly either, as things changed from year to year making it even more expensive. The aftermarket is there, but the prices are high in comparison to gen1 chevys and older fords.
    Maybe in another 30 years things will be different. But as of right now, from what I'm seeing in prices and comparison, the fox bodies are cheaper to build by far, or even an older gen1 chevy platform for that matter depending on your preference.
    If you are looking for cheap builds to go fast (and do it right) I'd pass on the 4th gen honestly. If money is no object, the LS motor has many advantages. I could go on and on, but I'm boring myself
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 02-14-2010 at 07:43 PM.

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    I think this rivalry is dumb cause they both have their own things going for them Camaro looks sexy as shit... Mustang has so much aftermarket support... Camaro has more Liters... Mustang can handle higher boost... Camaro has an amazing motor... Mustang has a better rear end... jezz lol I'm going to drive what i want you can drive what you want

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    Ya are trying to compare a brand new 11 GT to a 8-12 year old car. Ya are comparing it to a bone stock LS1. How many bone stock LS1s are out there nowadays..The Camaro is coming back out with the Z28 spouse to be out 11 or 12. The mustang owners will be crying why they lost is because it has 550+ HP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Don't know what part of the country you're from, but where I grew up in Ohio, the Fox bodies are nothing to sneeze at nowadays.
    Don't need to dump a ton of money in them either. You can pick those things up dirt cheap now,,,and it's a better platform to start with than a 4th gen. Lighter platform, better/stronger rearend with a 4 link setup...Aftermarket support out the wazzoo. I can certainly build one cheaper than a 4th gen and run just as fast. It's why they are so popular in street car / NMCA racing classes. Often referred to as the 57 chevy or 69 camaro for the modern generation. Cheap and popular to build from.

    You must be talking about just throwing some bolt on's on one and calling it done??? Maybe when they were new. Those days are gone, at their age most are well beyond the bolt on stage now.

    Buy one cheap, you can pick up the 86-90 models for $2k or less. Since they are 20+ years old now they are dirt cheap. Who cares about mileage. Build a 347 stroker setup right along with a decent trans, the rear is strong enough, gears and a good posi with aftermarket axles gets the job done. A few suspension tricks and you are on your way to 11's no sweat, for roughly 6-7 grand.

    You aren't going to build a 4th gen for that. When you figure even a well used 4th gen to start with will cost $7 grand easily, if not more. A rearend is $3,000 right off the bat to make it comparable to what you get in a fox body.
    If you are lucky you can get by with a cam/head package on the stock high mileage block. But we are already well over the cost of a fox body build. And if the 4th gen needs a shortblock that's more money.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the 4th gens. (have 2 of them) But the platform isn't exactly friendly, rears are weak with a goofy torque arm panhard bar design making rear selection limited to the aftermarket unless you backhalf the car. They are also fairly heavy in stock form. And lets face it,,, LS motors are not cheap to build either. Quite frankly they just haven't had the luxury of being around for the last 40-50 years like the gen1 small block chevys and fords, so parts prices haven't come down much. GM didn't exactly make the LS parts swap friendly either, as things changed from year to year making it even more expensive. The aftermarket is there, but the prices are high in comparison to gen1 chevys and older fords.
    Maybe in another 30 years things will be different. But as of right now, from what I'm seeing in prices and comparison, the fox bodies are cheaper to build by far, or even an older gen1 chevy platform for that matter depending on your preference.
    If you are looking for cheap builds to go fast (and do it right) I'd pass on the 4th gen honestly. If money is no object, the LS motor has many advantages. I could go on and on, but I'm boring myself
    Were getting way of topic here but I will agree with most of your post, fox bodies are nice platforms to build from and when compared to 4th gens they are definately much cheaper. There are things about them however that I still don't like and suspension is a big one. I think the 4th gen just brings much more to the table. That being said I guess if you have enough money to drop into them anything is possible.
    Last edited by Lethal Z; 02-14-2010 at 10:04 PM.

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    To please mr. evil and get somewhat back on topic....

    Hot Rod has a nice little article on the new 5.0 engine. This engine is supposed to be rated at 412 HP.

    Thinking about it, the new LS3 camaro is rated at 420 hp,,,that's with 376 cubic inches.
    In comparison, the new mustang engine is making 412 HP with only 302 cubic inches.

    Looking at it this way,,,I think ford has come out with a stout little package making good numbers for it's small size. Being cheaper than the camaro still, it looks like ford may have a winner that could steal alot of sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    To please mr. evil and get somewhat back on topic....

    Hot Rod has a nice little article on the new 5.0 engine. This engine is supposed to be rated at 412 HP.

    Thinking about it, the new LS3 camaro is rated at 420 hp,,,that's with 376 cubic inches.
    In comparison, the new mustang engine is making 412 HP with only 302 cubic inches.

    Looking at it this way,,,I think ford has come out with a stout little package making good numbers for it's small size. Being cheaper than the camaro still, it looks like ford may have a winner that could steal alot of sales.

    This is love/hate for me. Im not a mustang fan, like many of us on this forum. But i kinda like what ford is doing with the mustang. It gives us die-hard gm guys some competition finally. The mustang has always been a big seller, as i cant throw a rock without hitting one around here. My girl has a 2005 mustang v6, and even though its not a gt, we have modded it with headers, true dual exhaust, cai, and a flashpaq tuner and numerous appearance mods. I should add that the car was very easy to work on, as i did not have any trouble with the headers or any of the oem parts I've replaced in the 3 years she has had it. The car did 14.5 in the 1/4, which doesnt seem too bad for a v6. She has enough money to supercharge it, but is still debating it. I will also say that the 05-09 mustang is not a bad lookin car either. All in all, the mustang is gonna be a nice contender in the muscle car ring.

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    anyone seen the super snakes i saw one on bullrun speed channel had like 700hp don't no if it was modded or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by 99ss View Post
    anyone seen the super snakes i saw one on bullrun speed channel had like 700hp don't no if it was modded or not
    supersnakes come with 725crank hp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Thinking about it, the new LS3 camaro is rated at 420 hp,,,that's with 376 cubic inches.
    In comparison, the new mustang engine is making 412 HP with only 302 cubic inches.
    Not gonna get the torque with a lil ol 302 though

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