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Lt1 Vs. Ls1

This is a discussion on Lt1 Vs. Ls1 within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by shady milkman shit! In your defense, there was an old school LT1, but it was nothing like ...

  1. #101
    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    shit!
    In your defense, there was an old school LT1, but it was nothing like the one in question. Kinda like the original LS6 was a 450hp 454 in 1970. The names are just being used again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad97z View Post
    hell I think the 1993 LT1 only had like 235 or 245HP.. so ya, I can see how you would out run him with headers and air intake mods and custom programming on a LS1. duh. If the 50 shot was really 50 extra ponies, then at most he would have 295hp at the crank. and maybe 275 at the wheels. You could have about 325 at the wheels since you have headers and those other mods on a LS1.
    Dead wrong. It had 275 HP in '93.

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    Yea if you do a reasearch on cars.com it does say that the 93 Z28 had 275 HP

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    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    Dead wrong. It had 275 HP in '93.

    Ya I know.. I corrected myself somewhere. I must have been reading somethign about a 3rd Gen.

    anyways.. this below is from another post. He has a few key mods, but not many of the free mods. Note worthy.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad97z
    So you gained 25 HP from factory or 25 HP plus the 303?

    And I dont understand what you mean when you said They are so expensive because they are stainless steel and everything else besides Kooks are steel... So basically you just said all headers are stainless steel and they are all the same construction. So that doesnt explain why SLP's are so high.



    SLP Headers and Kooks Headers are the only stainless steel headers I know of. Most other header manufactures for example Jet hot, Hooker, Headman, Pacesetter make steel headers. The price of stainless is about 2.5 times the price of steel.

    When I bought my car it had a flowmaster cat back I put down 256 at the wheels. My first mod was the same SLP header you are looking at a LT4 hot cam kit and a mail order tune. It then dynoed at 303 at the wheels. I thought 303 was a little low for a cammed car and suspected it was my entire exhaust setup holding me back. A year went by and I no longer needed to worry about emissions, so I bought Pacesetter long tubes Summit 2.5" x pipe kit, and dynomax bullets. I then dynoed at 328 at the wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad97z View Post
    Ya I know.. I corrected myself somewhere. I must have been reading somethign about a 3rd Gen.

    anyways.. this below is from another post. He has a few key mods, but not many of the free mods. Note worthy.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad97z

    And I dont understand what you mean when you said They are so expensive because they are stainless steel and everything else besides Kooks are steel... So basically you just said all headers are stainless steel and they are all the same construction. So that doesnt explain why SLP's are so high.


    SLP Headers and Kooks Headers are the only stainless steel headers I know of. Most other header manufactures for example Jet hot, Hooker, Headman, Pacesetter make steel headers. The price of stainless is about 2.5 times the price of steel.

    When I bought my car it had a flowmaster cat back I put down 256 at the wheels. My first mod was the same SLP header you are looking at a LT4 hot cam kit and a mail order tune. It then dynoed at 303 at the wheels. I thought 303 was a little low for a cammed car and suspected it was my entire exhaust setup holding me back. A year went by and I no longer needed to worry about emissions, so I bought Pacesetter long tubes Summit 2.5" x pipe kit, and dynomax bullets. I then dynoed at 328 at the wheels.
    Ok, he had headers, true duals and a cam. Here's an LS1 with the same mods. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338202
    END OF STORY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad97z View Post
    well, I had a 1996 WS6 Formula and then traded it for a 2000 WS6 TA.. and I didn't notice any difference(except the new 2000 had a softer ride and a whining differntial), and I know there isn't much difference especially tootling around town at lower RPMs. And that's like 99% of my driving. You can check the factory HP curves between the LS1 and LT1 and they are nearly the same until you get at higher RPMs. And any header will help the LT1 especially at higher RPMs. The LT1 just didn't get the mods that an LS1 has. As far as comparing "oranges to apples" I know the LT1 and LS1 do things differently, but the effect is the same in the case of cylinder ignition.. Like who cares how the cylinders are ignited? Like separate coils on each cylinder or another system? According to some optisparks suck, but the new version of the optispark works fine. And I have never had any problem with my 97 vented opti. (90k mi).

    Also, LT1's can have the same size throttle body, the same size headers and a really nice cam just as you now have on your LS1. The thing is, since the LT1's have not been tweeked as much and from the factory, you could say they have more restrictive components, so when we do these same mods that you do, we get more results. Again, the only other bottle neck (comparitively speaking) that I see is possibly the heads. To me, that would be the only major thing to address.

    But LS1's do seem be prone to piston slap from what I hear.
    Yes it is like comparing apples to oranges! In case u havnt seen the blocks are TOTALY DIFFERENT! Not only does an ls1 have a 6 bolt main but also exhaust ports are different...Take a look at the lt1 block......2 exhaust ports are pretty much touching just like on the 1st gen small block......Between the 1st gen small block and the 2nd gen (LT1) I dont really know too much about the difference.....But the 3rd gen (LS1) is completely different. Dont get me wrong...I love LT1's.....love the way they sound and they they are absolute torque monsters.......But there is no way to say that an ls1 is a tweeked version of the LT1 or anything like that. Different generation of small block different engine, except for comparing hp and torque curves, U cant compair the engines to each other to be in teh same class. They are not the same engine....not even close.

    LT1's are nice, and make for some real beasts, but cant stand up to the dependability and potential of an ls1........but thats just my .02



    Quote Originally Posted by INMY01TA View Post
    This isn't even true. Chad97 posted a link to a head/cam LT1 that goes 11.7..?? Big deal. Cam only LS1's are goin 11.4, 11.5, 11.6 (friends of mine) Only guys I know of goin real fast in the Lt1's are Joe Overton and SS and TA. LS1's are also much easier to work on. Have fun puttin those headers on when you get em Chad.
    True......I have a cam only car.....and Im running 12.4 on STREET TIRES! I accually have seen a bone stock convertable ls1 z28....down to the exhaust and filter stock, run 12.8 with drag radials!
    Last edited by Frankthetank; 11-08-2006 at 06:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSomething View Post
    Click for full size
    HAHAHA GREAT!

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    dependability? The LT1 has been around longer and its actually more proven than the LS1. Vettes had the LT1 for a decade or so. And I know there were some major changes, but you'd think with all those changes, it would be a stronger motor. 93 octane only blows so hard and they have to get some kind of gas mileage out of these things. And 350 cubic inches, is 350 cubic inches. (ok ok 347) haha This topic is getting so old. haha I think we're crying over spilled milk.

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    Last edited by Chad97z; 11-08-2006 at 08:43 AM.

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    are you saying the higher the octane on fuel the better the gas milage?

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    i wish this thread would be put to rest and fall into oblevion

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    Quote Originally Posted by oneBADDz View Post
    In your defense, there was an old school LT1, but it was nothing like the one in question. Kinda like the original LS6 was a 450hp 454 in 1970. The names are just being used again

    how is a 450 hp LT1 like the 303 rwhp LS1? haha I think even the LT4 kicks the LS1. Plus even the current LT1 is a closer match to the LS1 than a 1970 450hp beast. Its time to come down a bit buddy.

    compare a LS2 to a 450hp LT1 .. but not an LS1

    Theres more than one way to skin a cat. And the only reason why they don't make them like they used to, is fuel economy and emissions.

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    are you saying the higher the octane on fuel the better the gas milage?

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    no.. just making various observations.

    But since you mentioned octane vs. mileage... I think the mileage difference between 87 and 93 octance is a wash. I say that because I think that how much you save in money by getting 87 octane, you'll just end up using more volume of gas to propel your car. So it's a wash. The engine has to produce a certain amount of horsepower to move the car. And since our driving habits dont change from one tank of gas to another, then it's just going to take more gas to get the car moving because 87 octance is not as combustible as 93. That's my high level observation regarding 87 vs. 93 octane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad97z View Post
    how is a 450 hp LT1 like the 303 rwhp LS1? haha I think even the LT4 kicks the LS1. Plus even the current LT1 is a closer match to the LS1 than a 1970 450hp beast. Its time to come down a bit buddy.

    compare a LS2 to a 450hp LT1 .. but not an LS1

    Theres more than one way to skin a cat. And the only reason why they don't make them like they used to, is fuel economy and emissions.
    I didn't compare anything to anything, read my post again, me and the other guy were talking about how they reused the engine names and nothing more. You wanna compare? ok, a stock LS6 now with 400hp would stomp the crap out of a stock LS6 from 1970 that made 450hp. the Hp rating system changed in the 70s man, you can't compare those numbers to modern numbers.

    The only reason they don't build them like they used to. . .is because they build them better.

    You aren't listening to anything anyone is saying that doesn't agree with you even though we're pointing out obvious facts. You have no foundation whatsoever for your opinions and that's fine, just stop arguing that your opinion is right when you can't give us any facts to support it

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    I hate to argue, but you say I say unfounded things but nearly everything you just said is hearsay. How do you define better? So let’s look at a few things. I realize today’s engines are rated differently regarding horsepower. In the old days there was something called SAE Gross HP. Gross horsepower figures were subject to considerable adjustment by carmakers and the power ratings of mass-market engines were often exaggerated, while those for the highest-performance muscle car engines were frequently underrated according to (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower).

    Also, today engines are rated at the flywheel(SAE net) rather than back at the shaft(SHP) or rear wheels(EHP). In the old days, vehicles used to be rated either at the shaft(10%loss) or rear wheels(effective / 5-15% loss) making them have a lower HP rating. So the LS1 may not do as good as you indicate above. I have talked to old timers, and they tell me stories about breaking the tires loose at 55 or 60 mph.

    There are many ways to rate horsepower. In 2005, yet a new standard is being used. The standard is called SAE-certified horsepower. The rated output of Cadillac's supercharged Northstar V8 jumped from 440 hp to 469 hp under the new tests, while 7.0 L LS7 used in the 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 rose slightly from 500 hp to 505 hp.

    So to me it looks like the trend for rating all vehicles has only made them appear to be more powerful.

    And if a factory LS1 that is rated at 320 HP and that has zer0 mods, dyno's at 303, that accounts for a 5.3% loss in the drive train and therefore is not really as underrated as most people talk about.. So an LS1 would not stomp a 450 HP old school LT1.
    Last edited by Chad97z; 11-08-2006 at 12:22 PM.
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    Well hasnt suspension gotten better? mayb thats why u could break loose at that high speeds again....

    And no the ls1 is not 347.....they say its 346ci but techically its a 345ci rounded up to 346ci

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    hahaha, i think chad needs to take a rest! the main difference in octanes is the amount of DETONATION that occurs, not in gas milage etc. higher octanes are required so yo dont blow heads/pistons to smitherines!! IE supercharged and high comp. engines need higher octane to eliviate knock/det problems.......this thread is absolutely mileading and useless!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ndforspd View Post
    hahaha, i think chad needs to take a rest! the main difference in octanes is the amount of DETONATION that occurs, not in gas milage etc. higher octanes are required so yo dont blow heads/pistons to smitherines!! IE supercharged and high comp. engines need higher octane to eliviate knock/det problems.......this thread is absolutely mileading and useless!

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    Any 6-speed LS1 in here can testify that a car with bolt ons and a cam can break the tires loose at 55-60. My car is a cam only automatic and I can break my street tires loose at 55-60. You're talking heresay now (the old guys said. . .)
    Bottom line, do my mods to your LT1 and make the power I am. . .it's not gonna happen.
    P.S. I had a 375 hp 396 69 Chevelle SS, my car raped it's ass when I was stock. You keep talking about what you have read and what you hear and your opinions, but you still havn't shown anything factual. MAybe you should rethink some of your opinions considering nobody here agrees with you, I think that's a pretty big hint that you're wrong.

    Higher octane is simply resistance to detonation. It allows you to run more spark advance and/or higher compression without detonation.

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    My car'd break the tires loose a little shifting from 3rd to 4th between 60-70ish.

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