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LS1 or LT1 ???

This is a discussion on LS1 or LT1 ??? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Zinergy I never said comparing the lt1 to ls1 was a bad comparison because thats exactly what ...

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    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    I never said comparing the lt1 to ls1 was a bad comparison because thats exactly what the op wants to know. Just no reason to bring the new camaro into this. Yes it is heavy but there is no disputing the fact that in the right hands it is faster in everyway. No bone stock ls1 car ever ran a 12.5 or 12.6.

    There is EVERY reason to bring the new model into this because that was supposedly raising the performance bar. The OP can go look at those posting 1/4 times with bone stock 2010 SS's and see that it is a very RARE car the reaches a 12.6. Most are in the 13.0 range. The OP can buy a LS1 car, slightly mod it, and BEAT the newer car while keeping more than $20K in the investment. Let the OP decide is that is relevant. If they think not, I'll cease to bring it up anymore.

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    Consumer of kraut SiggyZ's Avatar
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    Go with an LS1. It's lighter weight with an aluminum block over the LT1s iron block and it responds better to modifications. A decent LS1 car can be had for very reasonable now too. I've owned both engines and can tell you from personal experience, the LS1 is a superior power plant. My first Z28 was a '94 model.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jad628 View Post
    There is EVERY reason to bring the new model into this because that was supposedly raising the performance bar. The OP can go look at those posting 1/4 times with bone stock 2010 SS's and see that it is a very RARE car the reaches a 12.6. Most are in the 13.0 range. The OP can buy a LS1 car, slightly mod it, and BEAT the newer car while keeping more than $20K in the investment. Let the OP decide is that is relevant. If they think not, I'll cease to bring it up anymore.
    And once again you just say save 20,000 but what forgeting is your getting a NEW car. Not used, not pre-owned certified but new. Your comparing apples to oranges which is why its stupid. 2010 2ss camaro has the same msrp as the 02 ws6 or ss had back in 2002. Both just over 32,000 msrp except the new camaro is faster in 1/4mile, better at handling and stop better and is just a more solid refined car overall. Yes it weighs 200-300lbs heavier but there was a reason the 4th gens didnt sell well and it wasnt because of lack of power, it was because of lack of options and refinement.

    If all you care about is making the car into a drag queen then by all means go with a ls1 but if you want the better car the new camaro is better in everyway. Except maybe style but thats all personal preference.

    OP whats your price range? There is a point at about 5-6,000 dollar mark when you can get a high mileage ls1 or a mint lt1, thats a tough choice.
    Last edited by Zinergy; 04-26-2010 at 10:52 AM.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    And once again you just say save 20,000 but what forgeting is your getting a NEW car. Not used, not pre-owned certified but new. Your comparing apples to oranges which is why its stupid. 2010 2ss camaro has the same msrp as the 02 ws6 or ss had back in 2002. Both just over 32,000 msrp except the new camaro is faster in 1/4mile, better at handling and stop better and is just a more solid refined car overall. Yes it weighs 200-300lbs heavier but there was a reason the 4th gens didnt sell well and it wasnt because of lack of power, it was because of lack of options and refinement.

    If all yo ucare about is makign the car into a drag queen then by all means go with a ls1 but if you want the better car the new camaro is better in everyway. Except maybe style but thats all personal preference.
    I completely agree with you, except I do believe the fbodies sold very well in it's later years...

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    Speak the truth jad628's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    And once again you just say save 20,000 but what forgeting is your getting a NEW car. Not used, not pre-owned certified but new. Your comparing apples to oranges which is why its stupid. 2010 2ss camaro has the same msrp as the 02 ws6 or ss had back in 2002. Both just over 32,000 msrp except the new camaro is faster in 1/4mile, better at handling and stop better and is just a more solid refined car overall. Yes it weighs 200-300lbs heavier but there was a reason the 4th gens didnt sell well and it wasnt because of lack of power, it was because of lack of options and refinement.

    If all yo ucare about is makign the car into a drag queen then by all means go with a ls1 but if you want the better car the new camaro is better in everyway. Except maybe style but thats all personal preference.
    Then YOU go out, buy one, and be happy. I'm trying to add some insight to what the OP asked for from a perspective (mine) that is likely similar to the one they are currently considering.
    Last edited by jad628; 04-26-2010 at 11:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jad628 View Post
    Then YOU go out, buy one, and be happy. I'm trying to add some insight to what the OP asked for from a position (mine) that is likely similar to the one they are currenly considering.
    I dont want a new camaro, never said i did. GM is the car company of the socialist future lol. All im saying is the 5th gen camaro is a better car stock vs stock and msrp vs msrp and modded vs modded when put up against a 4th gen.

    OP, just get a ls1 car if you have ability. You wont be sorry in terms of power.

    Sorry we took this so far off course.
    Last edited by Zinergy; 04-26-2010 at 11:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    I completely agree with you, except I do believe the fbodies sold very well in it's later years...
    Really? Then why did they stop making cars that sold well? I wouldn't put it past GM though lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Really? Then why did they stop making cars that sold well? I wouldn't put it past GM though lol.
    there are two possible options for what he meant.

    1. he means after 2002.

    or
    2. late 4th gen models.



    i believe the fall of the f-body was not all sales related.

    mind you the big pushes for safety related features in the early 2000s.

    the f-body was a old platform anyways and was barely keeping up safety regulations and the f-body wouldnt pass new regulations in 2003 with side impact etc.

    on top of that the end of the f-body run was decided i believe in 2000. It was set in stone for 2002. no matter what sales it got.

    so i think overall the death was planned. the maro and firebirds were always very niche cars..gm wasnt expecting huge sales from them.

    so i new platform was needed anyways and a complete redesign to carry those two models so really considering the new maro was supposed to come out in 2007ish it seemed ..it isnt out of the question that a stronger than expected sales of the late forth gens prompted gm to start development on a new maro shortly after the end of 2002.

    mind you, the link between 4th gen to 5th gen is all theory. but the other stuff i have heard from several sources. Let me try to dig up the links.

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    Consumer of kraut SiggyZ's Avatar
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    You left out lack of advertising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    Yes it weighs 200-300lbs heavier but there was a reason the 4th gens didnt sell well and it wasnt because of lack of power, it was because of lack of options and refinement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinergy View Post
    And once again you just say save 20,000 but what forgeting is your getting a NEW car. Not used, not pre-owned certified but new. Your comparing apples to oranges which is why its stupid. 2010 2ss camaro has the same msrp as the 02 ws6 or ss had back in 2002. Both just over 32,000 msrp except the new camaro is faster in 1/4mile, better at handling and stop better and is just a more solid refined car overall. Yes it weighs 200-300lbs heavier but there was a reason the 4th gens didnt sell well and it wasnt because of lack of power, it was because of lack of options and refinement.

    If all you care about is making the car into a drag queen then by all means go with a ls1 but if you want the better car the new camaro is better in everyway. Except maybe style but thats all personal preference.

    OP whats your price range? There is a point at about 5-6,000 dollar mark when you can get a high mileage ls1 or a mint lt1, thats a tough choice.

    i'm picking up what you're throwing down.

    it's the same as buying 3rd gen for a grand and dumping a 502 in it. you'll be in it for less money than a mint low mile 4th gen but is it as nice to cruise in for 5 hours? absolutely not.

    the new ls3 camaro is a bit faster than a good 4th gen, but it's just a better built nicer driving car. if you're after a good, painless driving experience then a new camaro is what you need. but if all you want is to go fast for cheap then an old ls1 is the right answer.

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    Senior Member MrMasterCraft's Avatar
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    I'm going to add to Shady's response. The contract for the St. Therease (sp?) plant was also up in 2002. I'm sure this was not part of the bigger reasons for shutting it down, but yet another, none-the-less


    NOW......... what I'm a little baffled by, is that a few of you say "Buy a LS1 and pocket $20k" (or whatever dollar amount you're throwing out there). As if to imply, you've got $40k to drop on either one. More often that not, most consumers don't have $40k to cash out on a new SS, so you're not going to "pocket" anything. Regardless of having a payment on either one, and one will obviously be alot cheaper than the other, you're still only "pocketing" a little every month. Figuratively speaking blows

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    Quote Originally Posted by SiggyZ View Post
    You left out lack of advertising.
    it is becuase the f-body advertising team was merged into the corvette ad team in 99 i think. basically telling you that gm knew what was going on and was only going to sell by word of mouth

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    I guess it goes LS1>LT1 as far as engine .. but enough money can make anything go faster ... LS1 may be more expensive at start but may equal out when it comes to modding ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMasterCraft View Post
    I'm going to add to Shady's response. The contract for the St. Therease (sp?) plant was also up in 2002. I'm sure this was not part of the bigger reasons for shutting it down, but yet another, none-the-less


    NOW......... what I'm a little baffled by, is that a few of you say "Buy a LS1 and pocket $20k" (or whatever dollar amount you're throwing out there). As if to imply, you've got $40k to drop on either one. More often that not, most consumers don't have $40k to cash out on a new SS, so you're not going to "pocket" anything. Regardless of having a payment on either one, and one will obviously be alot cheaper than the other, you're still only "pocketing" a little every month. Figuratively speaking blows
    Well, here's good news then; I'm done posting. The OP asked a question, and I tried to answer it from a viewpoint that I thought needed to be addressed. Most every time a new model car comes out, it is inherently compared to the predecessor. In this case that means the 2010 SS to the 98-02 LS1. I tried to show why the LS1 was the route to go, but apparently my attempts aren't going to compare to the "shit", "stupid", "blows", and similar comments that some of you follow up with. I've come to expect that from younger generations who have a tendency to overuse the ability to make payments on credit as a way to get something you don't have the money to pay for outright. I guess that's why foreclosures and repossessions are up.

    Good luck OP.

    BTW- if you get rich, I'd suggest this model of Ferrari. This particular one is Michael Jordan's (I took the photo last night)

    Last edited by jad628; 04-27-2010 at 05:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jad628 View Post
    Well, here's good news then; I'm done posting. The OP asked a question, and I tried to answer it from a viewpoint that I thought needed to be addressed. Most every time a new model car comes out, it is inherently compared to the predecessor. In this case that means the 2010 SS to the 98-02 LS1. I tried to show why the LS1 was the route to go, but apparently my attempts aren't going to compare to the "shit", "stupid", "blows", and similar comments that some of you follow up with. I've come to expect that from younger generations who have a tendency to overuse the ability to make payments on credit as a way to get something you don't have the money to pay for outright. I guess that's why foreclosures and repossessions are up.
    now hold up jad... no need to generalize a entire generation.

    but i am personally confused on why the 5th gen maro is even be discussed in a lt1 vs ls1 as the 5th gen is neither and i assume is out of the price range or at least the intended price range the op is willing to pay. The 4th gen vs 5th gen doesnt make any sense in a discussion of lt1 vs ls1, just as a c6 in a debate on c4 vs c5 vettes...or am i missing something ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    now hold up jad... no need to generalize a entire generation.

    but i am personally confused on why the 5th gen maro is even be discussed in a lt1 vs ls1 as the 5th gen is neither and i assume is out of the price range or at least the intended price range the op is willing to pay. The 4th gen vs 5th gen doesnt make any sense in a discussion of lt1 vs ls1, just as a c6 in a debate on c4 vs c5 vettes...or am i missing something ?
    Exactly and that is a point i was trying to make. FYI I work for a Mortgage company and can handle my own and other peoples money very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    now hold up jad... no need to generalize a entire generation.

    but i am personally confused on why the 5th gen maro is even be discussed in a lt1 vs ls1 as the 5th gen is neither and i assume is out of the price range or at least the intended price range the op is willing to pay. The 4th gen vs 5th gen doesnt make any sense in a discussion of lt1 vs ls1, just as a c6 in a debate on c4 vs c5 vettes...or am i missing something ?
    Agree with Shady... Let's get this discussion back on the OP's topic please.


    Edit: In case anyone was wondering, this was a warning to get back on topic. Comments from this line and under best be about LS1 vs. LT1.
    Last edited by konigandy6; 04-27-2010 at 11:21 AM.

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    well for some upsides of the lt1....
    it sounds AMAZING, even stock.
    it is basically a genI and a lot of the old school approach to engine building/modding hold true for the lt1 compared to it not with the ls1.
    you can pick up lt1s for dirt cheap.
    lt1s can be made into monsters.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    well for some upsides of the lt1....
    it sounds AMAZING, even stock.
    it is basically a genI and a lot of the old school approach to engine building/modding hold true for the lt1 compared to it not with the ls1.
    you can pick up lt1s for dirt cheap.
    lt1s can be made into monsters.
    But same is true for the LS1... minus the old school approach. But both engines are proven reliable and have capabilities of being just stupid fast. Correct me if I'm wrong but the LT1's have a lower range power band than the LS1's. The trade off is going to be cost. Ls1's will probably cost you a little more, but modding cost should be around the same, and it takes more for an Lt1 to achieve what an LS1 can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by konigandy6 View Post
    But same is true for the LS1... minus the old school approach. But both engines are proven reliable and have capabilities of being just stupid fast. Correct me if I'm wrong but the LT1's have a lower range power band than the LS1's. The trade off is going to be cost. Ls1's will probably cost you a little more, but modding cost should be around the same, and it takes more for an Lt1 to achieve what an LS1 can.
    i think lt1s sound much more old school than the ls1 which is a very tame sound imho.

    the lt1s do torque a little earlier than ls1s...but the ls1s carry and have a higher peak further in the rpm range.

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