Ladies and Gents, I think we are all screwd!
This is a discussion on Ladies and Gents, I think we are all screwd! within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by Lethal Z UAW thugs? How do you catagorize all union workers as thugs? Because there union? Thats ...
03-07-2009, 04:09 PM #21
The UAW strikes when they don't get what they want. Over time, they've twisted arms too far and now when GM files BK, they won't get a damn thing.
You talk about fairness? You could say the same thing of the union demands which has forced GM into this position.
GM will be profitable again once it files for BK, purges itself of these unsustainable obligations and gets back to making cars.
03-08-2009, 09:07 AM #22
ok well you know what? who the hell needs like 4739242309 million dollar salary and a 05948947329843092 million dollar bonus on top of it for being some hotshot CEO or whatever bullshit.
seriously, who the fuck needs millions of dollars a year to live? no one, unless you care only about yourself
03-08-2009, 07:42 PM #23
another manufacturer will buy them before they go under. chevy will be around forever, not sure about pontiac, gmc, saturn, etc. its too big a market in the US, other companies would jump on that
03-08-2009, 07:50 PM #24
according to the new bail out plan, if your company wants money then the execs need to take pay cuts and no bonuses anyhow. so that really shouldnt be an issue right now. in the past yes.
Last edited by mpfranks; 03-09-2009 at 09:00 AM.
03-08-2009, 07:57 PM #25
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Bay Area, California
- 2000 Z-28
If GM goes bankrupt or dare I say WHEN, Ford and Chrysler will follow. Most use the same suppliers and one of them failing will start the snowball effect...
03-10-2009, 08:04 PM #26
There seems to be this idea that unions are outdated and no longer needed. Guys like you seem to think that if the unions went away and car companys could pay there employees's $15 to $20 bucks an hour then everything would be ok. Well you may actually see that, I'm noticing that unions as a whole are getting smaller and smaller. Mainly because people like you are convicing yourselves and others that unions aren't needed. Well what happens when the unions are gone and the company comes back and says that $15 to $20 bucks an hour is still too much? Then what? You may sleep at night knowing that the company would never do anything to hurt you but I don't. I've seen companys find ways of getting rid of people who are making more money only to replace them with new people so they can pay them less. What about companys like walmart who make there employees work off the clock in order to keep there jobs. I am a firm beleiver that there will soon be no middle class. You will have rich and poor. The rich will continue to get richer by cutting more corners and paying there employees as little as possible. The rest of us will be fighting for nickle and dime jobs to get by and cut each others throats to get them.
Unions are in place to protect the rights of workers don't be so fast to kick them out the door. These companys have there leverage, why are you so quick to get rid of yours?
Last edited by Lethal Z; 03-10-2009 at 08:14 PM.
03-10-2009, 10:00 PM #27
03-11-2009, 09:05 AM #28
03-11-2009, 09:07 AM #29
I agree the importing this year was out of control. I wish this country would get back to basics and start making their own products again instead of importing all this foreign crap. We need to kick that out of here and be more self sufficient.
03-11-2009, 09:56 AM #30
03-11-2009, 10:30 AM #31
thanks for al the input guys I <333 GM and even though the new stuff isnt as good as the old I sure hope they stick around to see what the future will bring, and check this. My buddys grandma and grandpa worked for GM, retired, the grandfather died, my buddy and his grandma got a check every month as like a (sorry for your loss) deal. His grandma just passed away recently, R.I.P. but they had the nerve to say we actually need the money back that we have been giving you, unreal and i think at one point all manufacturing of all cars will stop, everyone has a car and whoever doesnt cant afford it or doesnt need one so we will see what happens
03-11-2009, 02:38 PM #32
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- CANFIELD, OHIO
- 2002 CAMARO Z-28 M-6
03-11-2009, 05:13 PM #33
There was a time for unions. We now have labor laws in place that protect the worker. The only thing that unions do now is protect the worst workers.
Plain and simple, companies that lay off the highest paid people are short sighted or the employee isn't worth what the employer was paying. For example, I just laid off an employee that had been with my company for 14 years. One of the motivators involved in laying him off was his pay. The big reason was he was not as productive as lower paid people doing his job. There were 8 other people making more money than him, some have been with us longer. They have earned their pay increases through more efficient, accurate and safer production.
If I can put on 200 wheels per day and the guy next to me puts on 200 wheels per day why does he deserve more money than me??? The answer is he doesn't. Now if he adds other value from his experience, like being a mentor to junior employees or maybe he installs 200 wheels and cleans up and maintains the equipment we both use, he is more valuable and earns his pay.
I don't believe that Walmart forces people to work off the clock. If an employee wants to volunteer to learn a new job or skill that's one thing but there would be huge lawsuits and penalties for breaking the law that it would be counterproductive if they forced employees to work off the clock.
I have told employees that have screwed something up a couple of times that if they do it again then they will need to punch out, fix their mistake and then punch back in or they will be let go. Everyone makes a mistake. When you keep making the same one you need to learn or move on.
Also if screwing a car together is worth $15 an hour then that's what it should pay. There's a problem with low pay, you usually get what you pay for. Better workers will move to higher pay.
My company is one of the highest paid in our catagory. Most of my employees have been with them for 5 or more years. We haven't had a lost time accident since January of 2001. My guys don't make mistakes so my customers continue to buy from me while others in my business catagory are going out of business. I'm not the cheapest, but my value is the best. I pay for the quality.
Sorry but these GM/UAW workers were overpaid, especially as benefits go, for many years because they held a gun to the company's head. Well guess what, the rabbits got the gun now so what are they going to do.
03-11-2009, 05:17 PM #34
The Chevy Cavalier was extremely dependable. It was inexpensive and represented a good value.
I would call the 4th gen F-body a great car. Superior performance at a lower price.
Ok I'm pulling at straws here. There really wasn't anything much better than average. I tried though.
03-11-2009, 10:42 PM #35
Did'nt read all the post but GM will not go away. They will probably file for bankruptcy, get rid of or force union consessions. Then restructure and come back hopefully smarter.
It's not only the unions killing the "big three" it's also all of the retirees and thier life time benefits. Unions gotta go too. Unions drive alot of businesses out of the country. You can't pay unskilled workers $30-$40+ an hour and stay afloat forever. Not to mention unions use due money for political reasons too. Give it to people you may not even like. Mostly liberals. This may make union guys mad but thats the truth. Unions are "ONE" of the reasons businesses move over seas. Also why some with hire illegals to work. In 93' the steel mills went on strike near the town I live. During this time I was dateing a girl whos' father was a crane opperator for the steel mill. A union man who had 25+yrs in the mill. He made $60,000 a year, paying dues that whole time. Then when they went on strike all the union would pay him from the strike fund was lousy $90.00 per week. He could'nt collect unemployment because he was still considered to be "employed" through the union. No up side to me! Just my oppinion though. I'm not trying to start a war or offend folks. I just think for all the money people pay over the years they should get better returns durring a hardship....
Last edited by Smittro; 03-11-2009 at 10:45 PM.
03-12-2009, 09:15 AM #36
I'm just glad I don't plan on buying any new cars, probably ever again. I'm still driving stuff from the 60's and 70's more than I care to drive the 4th gen Cheaper to maintain and keep runnin' and they'll serve me fine till I die
03-12-2009, 01:28 PM #37
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Bel Air, Md
- 2000 Camaro Conv.
I'm also a Union electrician that worked for 40 years in every kind of weather. I worked every day because I had a family to support. Unions in the area I worked in always gave back to the community. Where ever there was a need there would be union people volunteering their time and union contractors donating the materials. One hand helps the other. Unions are the reason that their is a middle class. Union people are not all the same so don't lump us all together. I worded hard for the money I made and I am enjoying my retirement. By the way after I retired I spend 5 years wiring the homes for Habitat for Humanity. No pay, just the joy of seeing someone get a home that never thought they could have one.
03-12-2009, 04:30 PM #38
Last edited by Lethal Z; 03-12-2009 at 06:00 PM.
03-12-2009, 05:52 PM #39
03-12-2009, 06:01 PM #40
By the way, I do support them. I drive an 02 Camaro and an 03 Cavalier. I have owned since 2001 a 2001 new Z28, a 2002 new Z28, a 2003 new Cavalier, a 2002 Z06 C5, a new 2005 GTO, a new 2006 C6 Vette, a used 1996 C4 LT4 Vette, a 2005 C6 Vette, and in the next few weeks will be buying a new Vette or maybe a GT500, kinda torn right now as to which way to go.
For the companies I worked for I've purchased about a dozen Cavaliers and about 30 Focus Wagons, about 15 Silverado pickups, 2 F-150's and I'm buying a Ford Escape tommorrow. I've been asked why I don't consider cars from non American based manufacturers and my answer is that I prefer to buy a product that helps the economy of the country I live in. Foreign products help our economy buy providing work for dock workers and truck drivers etc.... but in the end the profit leaves this country, so I try to buy American.
How many American vehicles have you bought in the last 7-8 years????
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