Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 86

got time?

This is a discussion on got time? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Play nice guys...

  1. #41
    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Broken Arrow, OK
    Age
    42
    Posts
    23,353

    Pewter metallic
    2000 Camaro SS

    Play nice guys

  2. #42
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    Quote Originally Posted by TransDreamer View Post
    Wait, a forum is to learn? this is reasearch you old fart

    It can be one-sided reasearch, but its learning..

    I research every day about F-body's.... i know what times they run

    Go under a rock and die

    haha no hard feelings.... but you are a grumpy one it seems











    .....Larryyyy

    im not grumpy, ive been reading ls1 sites and tinkering with my car for 7 years. you find out what works and doesnt.

    if you know what times they run, then you should know that one car isnt faster than the other.
    2000 nhra edition formula
    a few bolt ons, 379 rwhp
    11.96 @113.25

  3. #43
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    LOL, thats the funniest thing I have heard. It's silly to even argue over it. Do you mean to tell me that all those million dollar engineers at nascar are wasting their time and don't know what they are doing? Common. Larry.
    http://www.theautochannel.com/callah...evin_car01.jpg

    http://www.freewebtown.com/nascar/cars.html

    http://www.theinsidegroove.com/pics/.../image-09.html

    none of these million dollar cars have ram air hoods as you say they do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Why does nascar use it? NHRA? IHRA? Because it makes a difference, plane and simple. It's common knowledge, cooler, denser outside air will make more power. It's printed everywhere you look, just do a google search on it,,,,every 10 degree drop in inlet air temperature is worth 1% increase in power.
    It can be as hot as 200 degrees or more under the hood, if the engine is sucking that air in,,,it kills power. Grabbing outside air, even if it's 95 degrees outside it's benificial. It has nothing to do with taking your money. Larry.

  4. #44
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    a ram air hood on a nascar that goes 200mph will create drag, thats why youll never find a ram air hood on a nascar.

  5. #45
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Nascar does have ram air,,,they use the cowl to suck cool air in at the base of the windshield,,,if it didn't work they would seal that off and just stick an open element in there,,,sheeeeesh. GM used this concept many years ago starting in the 60's. Trust me these guys know what they are doing.
    Common guys, this is common sense here. Like I said before,,,it will make a difference.
    I said every 10 degree drop in inlet air temperature is worth 1% increase in power,,,,it's known around the world,,,,just look it up.
    Legends like Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins and Smokey Yunick knew this,,,,and utilized it.
    On a dyno you won't see a difference,,,as I said before,,,,the car is not moving.
    Why do you think the first mod everyone does to a non ramair car is a cold air intake,,,or on these 4th gens a popular free mod is to cut the plastic under the air box to pull in outside air in front of the radiator,,,it's majic,,,now all of the sudden and non ramair car now has ram air,,,,imagine that.
    Yes you will see an ET and mph improvement. I can give you some examples
    My 70 Formula is a ram air car,,,has the fiberglass hood with dual scoops front and center. It's extremely effective,,,at speeds over 70 mph or so,,,it would push the crank case vent out of the holder and push it around to the back of the air cleaner from the air rushing in. With this aircleaner installed and sealed to the hood, it runs 13.60's at 102 mph,,,,when I come back to the pits and remove it,,,go right back out the car slows to the high 13.70's at 101 mph....don't tell me it doesn't make a difference.
    My other car,,,a 72 SS 454 chevelle has cowl induction,,,not quite as effective on this design as it depends on air bouncing off the windshield,,,but it does work,,,I have found almost a 1 mph difference with and without the factory air cleaner. ET didn't vary as much. But you get the idea.
    Another example,,,my 79 454 1 ton truck,,,,with the stock air cleaner,,,single snorkle with duct work that goes to one side just next to the headlight, and a baffle in front of it...I removed the air cleaner, spot welded another snorkle on,,,making a dual snorkle, then went to GM for another hose/duct work setup and ran it over to the other headlight and then removed the baffle on both of them,,,the truck picked up over a tenth of a second and 1 mph over my previous best with no other changes.
    Trust me,,,a good system works,,I have been playing with this stuff for over 30 years. I have a stable of cars with ramair,,,with tons of passes on them,,,this stuff works.
    Yes the ram air 4th gen cars were a tick faster when they were new,,,I have plenty of road tests that back that up, especially the WS6 T/A's, there system was very straight forward and affective. Nowadays with everyone doing the free mods, cutting the plastic in front of the radiator, there are no more fair comparisons anymore, there is hardly an F-body out there that hasn't been tinkered with.
    Ram air is a known fact,,,,this shouldn't even be contemplated on here,,,any engine builder can tell you the benefits of cooler outside air,,,which is why Nascar, NHRA, and just about every racing form out there goes out of there way to make sure the engine is pulling in cooler outside air.
    I don't think any of us are smarter than these Nascar engineers that are making 800 hp out of a naturally asperated 358 ci motor,,,,I sure don't claim to be smarter. Larry.

  6. #46
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    FBJ, the point im making is that ram air on these cars isnt all that its cracked up to be. will it make some more h.p than a non ram air car, sure. will it make a big difference if racing a non ram air car, not really. its still going to come down to which car gets the better jump.
    people who think a ram air car is going to win a run just because it has ram air and the other doesnt is in for a surprise.

    a 10 degree drop that makes 1% more power is only good too a point.
    VE dictakes thats. for example, my car made 379 to the rear wheels and the temp was 97. on a day where its 10 degrees and you strap my car to a dyno, no way will it make another 37 more rwhp.
    any LS1 tuner will tell you that much h.p isnt happening.

  7. #47
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Lincoln, CA
    Posts
    124

    Pewter
    2000 Z28 Camaro

    People seem to be confusing ram air induction and cold air induction. Cold air induction is beneficial for any vehicle. Denser air charge leads to more horsepower because in the less expanded gas (cool air) there are more oxygen atoms to aid combustion. Ram air is referring to a means of forced induction to send more of the air/fuel mixture to the cylinders, no matter what the temperature of that mixture is. If you are ramming cool air to the cylinders, that's the best of all possible worlds. That's why turbos have intercoolers. The SS ram air induction system actually works as an air charge heater, since it passes the air the length of the hood nearly twice, allowing it to soak up the engine heat trapped in the hood. As far as who is quicker and faster, just look at stock performance in the quarter mile. The SS is usually both quicker and faster than the Z28 in stock trim. GM wasn't screwing you, but you have to ask yourself if the extra $5K on the window sticker was worth the performance differential.

  8. #48
    All in time... TransDreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    OH
    Age
    27
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by RagTop View Post
    People seem to be confusing ram air induction and cold air induction. Cold air induction is beneficial for any vehicle. Denser air charge leads to more horsepower because in the less expanded gas (cool air) there are more oxygen atoms to aid combustion. Ram air is referring to a means of forced induction to send more of the air/fuel mixture to the cylinders, no matter what the temperature of that mixture is. If you are ramming cool air to the cylinders, that's the best of all possible worlds. That's why turbos have intercoolers. The SS ram air induction system actually works as an air charge heater, since it passes the air the length of the hood nearly twice, allowing it to soak up the engine heat trapped in the hood. As far as who is quicker and faster, just look at stock performance in the quarter mile. The SS is usually both quicker and faster than the Z28 in stock trim. GM wasn't screwing you, but you have to ask yourself if the extra $5K on the window sticker was worth the performance differential.
    grow up ram air makes a difference... period... now this thread is over

    is it worth the money? depends on how much you have to spend and on how much power you need.

    seems to me you have a problem accpeting your wrong? or maybe you want to make yourself think ram air isnt worth it cause you dont have it on your formula?

    regardless thanks for your input but lets end this

  9. #49
    Ratdaddy07
    Guest
    Seems like we rehash this argument all the time. I do know though that you can get two identically optioned cars and have the same guy test them one after another and often get slightly different times. I don't know for sure if "ram air" works I know it doesn't seem to me it would but I'm no expert. I do know I "A" don't have it and "B" have often noticed them getting smaller in my rear-veiw mirror, they do look nice there though.

  10. #50
    Visualize°Design°Create SSwt00SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    9,287

    '12 Silver SS 1SS
    '00 Black SS #8617

    NHRA isn't gumpy, he knows his shit, he just hates having to repeat himself. he has an immense amount of knowledge, so learn from him, and don't butt heads...

    i really don't need to build him up, he can hold his own...

  11. #51
    M6 King Hot Black Trans-Am's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    5,085
    Blog Entries
    1

    09 EclipseGT 75 Chevy 4x4
    2001 Trans-Am 13 F-XT

    Lets see here, from what I read in this thread there is more benifit from cowl induction than ram air. You get cold air and no drag. From other things I've read it sounds right. Ram air on fbody's don't do squat other than make a fancy cold air kit. Sounds right.

  12. #52
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    Quote Originally Posted by TransDreamer View Post


    grow up ram air makes a difference... period... now this thread is over

    is it worth the money? depends on how much you have to spend and on how much power you need.

    seems to me you have a problem accpeting your wrong? or maybe you want to make yourself think ram air isnt worth it cause you dont have it on your formula?

    regardless thanks for your input but lets end this
    how much difference does it make on your f-body??

  13. #53
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    Well on which F-body? I have a second gen Fbody and it's extremely effective on that car. I thought I gave an example of that.
    My 70 Formula is a ram air car,,,if you are familiar with these, the fiberglass hood has dual scoops front and center, much like the WS6 T/A's of today.
    Under the hood there are a pair of seals that close against the air cleaner. This car is a bone stocker that I run in factory stock muscle car drag races on a regular basis,,,tons of testing and tuning on this car.
    With everything intact,,,it runs 13.60's at 102 mph. After my first time trial run I removed the air cleaner,,,no more ram air,,,,and the second pass resulted in high 13.7X's and mph fell to 101. After reinstalling the air cleaner it dropped back to the 13.60's at 102 mph. So from then on,,,,all runs are made with the ram air system functional.
    The WS6 T/A's of today are just as effective, with the scoops up front, and a very short distance to the air box,,,about the only draw back is the air box sitting on top of a very hot radiator,,,so heat soaking can be a problem if the car is parked, but once moving it cools down rather quick.
    On the SS models (which I now own one,,,so let the testing begin)
    Those don't seem to be as effective as the WS6 for obvious reasons, looking at the hood, it makes 2 180 degree turns before it enters the air box,,,not a good idea but what can you do when the scoop is in the middle of the hood and the air intake for a fuel injection unit is in the front of the motor.
    Just the nature of it so you have to play the cards you are dealt with. This was discussed back in 1998 on a pair of Fbodies, a WS6 and an SS,,,both 6 speeds and equipped the same. Same driver etc...60 foots were very similar but the WS6 consistently ran about a tenth quicker and the mph was always a pinch higher than the SS model. They chucked it up to a better ram air system on the WS6.
    Since I have several ram air cars, some of which I have raced for over 20 years, I tend to believe this conclusion.

    As far as the cowl induction being effective? I have an SS 454 as well, with cowl induction,,,I have played with that car as well,,,unhooking the vacuum line to keep the door closed, making the engine pull air through the single snorkle,,,and it slows down quite a bit, about a tenth,,,but when I remove the air cleaner, installing an open element and still keeping the door closed, I almost gain it back. So there is some benefit to the cowl induction,,,but it doesn't seem to be as drastic as the ram air on my firebird. The 70 firebird has a better system hands down from my experience.
    The reason I believe is the fact that on a chevelle cowl induction, it is relying on air bouncing off the windshield to be pulled back into the cowl hood, but the problem on the chevelle,,,(and this has been shown on windtunnel testing) the flap on the hood is not close enough to the windshield to get the full affect. The cowl induction hoods on the 68-69 camaro's and the cowl plenums used in 66 and 67 are actually more effective, because they are closer to the windshield. This is the method that nascar uses,,,notice how close they put the cowl opening to the base of the windshield. It works very well,,,,Nascar even has rules about the size of the opening.
    Based off of what I have done with the older cars, and testing I have seen on the newer stuff,,,,there is definately something there to be found. It's nothing new.
    As far as the extra price tag for the 4th gen ram air cars? Well thats up to the individual,,,since the standard 4th gens can be easily modified to do the same thing for little or no money. But there is alot more to the ram air cars than just a cold air hood,,,,you also have a car that has lower production numbers and could very well be collectable someday,,,many other things for that $5,000 price tag that I shouldn't have to get into the details of on a 4th gen dedicated site, everyone knows what you get. But thats all personal preferrance in what you like in a car,,,can't argue with that. But it's a known fact that engines like the cooler outside air better than the hot under hood air,,,doesn't matter whether you grab it from a factory setup or make your own from the aftermarket,,,it all accomplishes the same thing. Larry.

  14. #54
    All in time... TransDreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    OH
    Age
    27
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    how much difference does it make on your f-body??
    a low blow

  15. #55
    M6 King Hot Black Trans-Am's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    5,085
    Blog Entries
    1

    09 EclipseGT 75 Chevy 4x4
    2001 Trans-Am 13 F-XT


  16. #56
    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    doylestown, Pa
    Posts
    6,818

    SILVER
    2004 CTS-V

    This topic is never ending. Where's Sarge?

  17. #57
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    12,552
    I agree,,,I have given good solid info from my own testing, and there is so much on our lovely internet to find about this stuff,,,it's almost a no brainer...but some people either don't understand, don't take the time to do the research, or simply enjoy disagreeing whether right or wrong,,,,what ever the case may be,,,it doesn't matter to me. I know what I have found, and if others don't want to listen it's no sweat off my back. Just hoping it would help some people. In any event,,,it's probably time to close this chapter. Larry.

  18. #58
    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    doylestown, Pa
    Posts
    6,818

    SILVER
    2004 CTS-V

    One topic that was brought up, I don't see how a Z28 is lighter than an "SS".
    The "SS" hood is lighter by at least 10 lbs. The "SS" spoiler can't be anymore than 2 lbs. heavier than the Z28 spoiler. ?????

  19. #59
    member since may 2000 nhraformula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    n/w chicago
    Age
    47
    Posts
    6,933

    black
    2000 nhra edition formula

    Quote Originally Posted by 9t8z28 View Post
    One topic that was brought up, I don't see how a Z28 is lighter than an "SS".
    The "SS" hood is lighter by at least 10 lbs. The "SS" spoiler can't be anymore than 2 lbs. heavier than the Z28 spoiler. ?????
    a SS has power windows, power seat, leather and so on. a stripper Z/28 doesnt.

  20. #60
    2004 HEAD/CAM CTS-V 9t8z28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    doylestown, Pa
    Posts
    6,818

    SILVER
    2004 CTS-V

    Quote Originally Posted by nhraformula View Post
    a SS has power windows, power seat, leather and so on. a stripper Z/28 doesnt.
    Yes, this is true, but how many strippers are there. We are speaking in general here, not the rare options.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. 1967 Chevrolet Camaro - Time After Time
    By Ed Blown Vert in forum Camaro / SS
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-09-2012, 04:20 PM
  2. Long time listener, first (or second) time posting
    By Norrie in forum New Member Introductions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-04-2008, 09:10 AM
  3. Long time reader first time poster
    By bigmarky in forum New Member Introductions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 05-27-2008, 06:47 PM
  4. Long Time Listener 1st Time Caller
    By NSSTG8TR98 in forum New Member Introductions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-21-2007, 07:33 PM
  5. Replies: 55
    Last Post: 11-16-2006, 09:39 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •