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enlighten me please

This is a discussion on enlighten me please within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Whats up ls1. Just wondering well i'm 23 years old, and didnt get to witness the great old days of ...

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    Question enlighten me please

    Whats up ls1. Just wondering well i'm 23 years old, and didnt get to witness the great old days of camaro, but i know z28 was the top car of the camaro line and im confused still. what is the top car or is it the same like comparing a saleen to a cobra. Bringing a 500 plus horse power car over the super sport is really confusing to me. What if owners who bought the 5th gen SS thought they were getting the top of the line camaro, i know if i got one and the z28 came out to be the top car i would be hot. But im still excited to see such a powerful car. this is like when firehawk was put on the g8.

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    Your dealership guy konigandy6's Avatar
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    Well the firehawk was modified by SLP, it was not a factory GM option. The Z28 however will be all GM.

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    Senior Member Schmalgar's Avatar
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    The 2010 Camaro has an SS model but not a Z28 model, right? So that would make the SS the current top model. The Z28 is coming out for 2011...? I am not sure how the Z28 will compare to the SS. From what I have read, it does look like the Z28 will be the higher model. I don't like that, they shouldn't switch from previous model rankings. As you say, that's confusing...

    PS, I am more excited that they are putting out a convertible next!
    Last edited by Schmalgar; 04-16-2010 at 11:17 AM.

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    Senior Member 2001camaroSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmalgar View Post
    I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think the 2010 Camaro has an SS model but not a Z28 model. So that would make the SS the current top model. I think there is a Z28 coming out soon...? I am not sure how the Z28 will compare to the SS...
    i think that's what the OP is referring to. Supposedly when the z28 comes out its going to have more HP then the SS
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    Senior Member Schmalgar's Avatar
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    Yeah when I read it again, I realized that's what he was asking I reworded my response a little...

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    The Z28 USED to be the top of the line model way back when. Then it changed to the SS model. Since the 5th generation Camaro is more of an "old style" version of the Camaro, they are once again making the Z28 the King of the Hill. The new 5th gen Z28 will have more HP than the SS.

    This is how I understand it at least.

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    Senior Member Schmalgar's Avatar
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    04 Cobra 'vert - M6 mysti
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    Aha. I guess like the OP, I am not old enough to know how the original models were ranked

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    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    way back .. you had Camaro, RS, and SS
    RS appearance package
    SS interior upgrade package
    then came the Z28 .. that was for the 302 engine used in Trans Am racing , and suspension upgrades ...
    but then the Z28 engine went up to 350 CID .. and both SS and Z28 packages stayed around .. I think they dropped the SS in 74 , but kept the Z28 as a engine upgrade .. then when the 4th gens came out , droped Z28 and brought back SS ...

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    IMO the first gens hold the best purpose for each model. The base car was the regular ass camaro, Then the rally sport with 350's then the Z28 with the bad ass 302, then the SS and/or RS/SS with the 396.
    Now in terms of what the prices were I have no idea. But the Z and the SS were two different purpose built cars.

    I always had the impression the SS was for the light to light races and the Z28 was for the track.

    But even though the Z had a smaller engine and smaller HP rating, it still ran down the SS which is why I think people think its the top of the line camaro.

    The COPO with the 427 is most related to the Cobra in terms of mustang vs camaro but It was a limited release to selected few



    If I'm misinformed let me know. this is all my opinion based on what I know

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackbird0230 View Post
    IMO the first gens hold the best purpose for each model. The base car was the regular ass camaro, Then the rally sport with 350's then the Z28 with the bad ass 302, then the SS and/or RS/SS with the 396.
    Now in terms of what the prices were I have no idea. But the Z and the SS were two different purpose built cars.

    I always had the impression the SS was for the light to light races and the Z28 was for the track.

    But even though the Z had a smaller engine and smaller HP rating, it still ran down the SS which is why I think people think its the top of the line camaro.

    The COPO with the 427 is most related to the Cobra in terms of mustang vs camaro but It was a limited release to selected few



    If I'm misinformed let me know. this is all my opinion based on what I know
    chevy's performance/upgrade models were SS packages. they added a R/S cosmetic option for the camaro that most notably had the hideaway headlights. they put a short stroke 283 crank in a 327 block which resulted in a quick revving motor that stayed under the cubic inch rules for trans-am racing and stuck it in the camaro. that's the story as i remember it. they had to sell a certain number of these cars to qualify as a factory car. the early cars were simply camaros with option code z-28 which gave you the 302 with 4-speed trans. and i'm not sure if a posi rear was included in the package or not. nowhere on the car did it say z-28. a little bit later in the run they decided to give it a model name all it's own which was of course z-28. with the debut of the new camaro model 1970 1/2, they dumped in the new 350" lt1 motor.if you want a rare camaro, find a z-28 before it was even called a z-28.

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    The Z28 will be back at the top next year, like it should be.

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    and they didn't have t-tops 'till they lost their muscle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snaggeltooth View Post
    way back .. you had Camaro, RS, and SS
    RS appearance package
    SS interior upgrade package
    then came the Z28 .. that was for the 302 engine used in Trans Am racing , and suspension upgrades ...
    but then the Z28 engine went up to 350 CID .. and both SS and Z28 packages stayed around .. I think they dropped the SS in 74 , but kept the Z28 as a engine upgrade .. then when the 4th gens came out , droped Z28 and brought back SS ...
    Say what?!?!? They dropped the Z28 when the 4th gens came out? Sure are a lot of posers out there then. BTW, there was no Z28 in '75 and '76

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    Exalted Cyclops 67CamaroRSSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snaggeltooth View Post
    way back .. you had Camaro, RS, and SS
    RS appearance package
    SS interior upgrade package
    then came the Z28 .. that was for the 302 engine used in Trans Am racing , and suspension upgrades ...
    but then the Z28 engine went up to 350 CID .. and both SS and Z28 packages stayed around .. I think they dropped the SS in 74 , but kept the Z28 as a engine upgrade .. then when the 4th gens came out , droped Z28 and brought back SS ...
    Last SS prior to 96MY was the 72MY. Both BB and SB versions were available (emasculated by emmisions but available nonetheless). Z28 was dropped after 74MY but brought back for 77MY so as to have something for Chevrolet to compete with the ever increasing sales and popularity of the Pontiac Trans Am.

    The SS350 was unique to the Camaro during the 67MY run (it wouldn't be available in any other vehicle until the 68MY). The RS option was available with any engine/tranny combination.

    Chevrolet created the 302 by combining the 3" stroke 283 crank with the 4" bore 327. This was to meet the SCCA requirement for a 5 liter (305cid) max requirement for the class. Ford initially used the 289 while Mopar used the 273 and the initial GM entry into the class was the Corvair with the flat 6. This was why Yenko created the Corvair Monza "Stinger". When SCCA made it a requirement for the factory to produce a minimum of 500 units to be made available to the public Chevrolet created the Z28 package for the Camaro. They made 602 units to satisfy the SCCA's requirements. The Z28 designation is nothing more the the next combination of alpha-numeric option code callouts used. For example the RS is option code Z22. In 69 the small block SS was option code Z27.

    Another Camaro anecdote: The introduction of the 396 (325hp) Camaro was not only to counter Ford's introduction of the FE series of engines (390 & 427 and mid year - thanks to Tasca Ford and Hot Rod magazine - the 428) into the larger for 67 Mustang, it was also introduced prior to Jan 67 so it was available to the NHRA for use in 1/4 mile racing (396/375) for the 1967 season.

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    Exalted Cyclops 67CamaroRSSS's Avatar
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    2002 Z28 A4 NBM
    Sadly now demodded :(

    FYI: The 427 wasn't initially offered by Chevrolet due to a GM edict that said no engines over 400 cid in other than "full size" (Impala, etc) cars. This also included the "A" body cars (Chevelle and all other similar GM cars - this is why a max 400cid in the GTO and 442 and GS cars - that is untill the 70MY when GM relented).

    BUT, this didn't prevent the dealers from taking a 396 car and dropping in a crate L72 427/425. Various dealers (most notably Dana in LA, Berger in the mid-west and Yenko on the east coast) did this for MY 67 and 68. There were no factory 427 cars made in these 2 years.

    As we all know the Central Office Production Order system (usually used to create fleets of taxicabs, police cars and the like) was manipulated during the 69MY to create the COPO Camaros as well as the 69 ZL1 cars (THE ultimate Camaro).

    Added: No COPO cars are SS's. They were all built at the Norwood plant and carry an X44 code.
    Last edited by 67CamaroRSSS; 04-16-2010 at 09:04 PM.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Jims got a pretty good handle on it here with accurate information.

    Getting back to which is top dog. Assuming this is referring to acceleration, because the SS and Z28's were priced very similar back then with all the same options available.
    Back then most of us as far as I remember never considered the Z28 to be top dog. From 67-69 only the 302 could be had in the Z. They didn't hold a candle to the SS models when ordered with a 396/375 L78. I owned both examples years ago.

    But that was the beauty of the SS models back then. You could have anything from a 350/300 hp to a 396/325hp, 396/350hp, 396/375hp, and also the L89 396/375hp, (aluminum heads).

    Unfortunately as times went on, this deminished slowly to the point when 4th gens came out and it didn't matter what emblems were on the outside of the car, they were all the same "cookie cutter" cars with appearance packages Not sure how you figure top dog out of something like that unless you want to look at just price differences.

    So I'd have a hard time anymore decifering which is top dog on a 5th gen nowadays, because it doesn't seem to matter to GM anymore what emblems they put on a car, they have all lost their meanings as far as I'm concerned. I'll just watch at the track and see which one crosses the line first I guess
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 04-16-2010 at 09:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Jims got a pretty good handle on it here with accurate information.

    Getting back to which is top dog. Back then most of us as far as I remember never considered the Z28 to be top dog. From 67-69 only the 302 could be had in the Z. They didn't hold a candle to the SS models when ordered with a 396/375 L78. I owned both examples years ago.

    But that was the beauty of the SS models back then. You could have anything from a 350/300 hp to a 396/325hp, 396/350hp, 396/375hp, and also the L89 396/375hp, (aluminum heads).

    Unfortunately as times went on, this deminished slowly to the point when 4th gens came out and it didn't matter what emblems were on the outside of the car, they were all the same "cookie cutter" cars with appearance packages

    So I'd have a hard time anymore decifering which is top dog on a 5th gen nowadays, because it doesn't seem to matter to GM anymore what emblems they put on a car, they have all lost their meanings as far as I'm concerned. I'll just watch at the track and see which one crosses the line first I guess :dunno
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    It's just not the same anymore...

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    Exalted Cyclops 67CamaroRSSS's Avatar
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    2002 Z28 A4 NBM
    Sadly now demodded :(

    "Corporate" engines (e.g., the 307 in your Pontiac Larry) FTL...

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    Senior Member snaggeltooth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbrownin View Post
    Say what?!?!? They dropped the Z28 when the 4th gens came out? Sure are a lot of posers out there then. BTW, there was no Z28 in '75 and '76
    OOPS meant to say Z28 became just the V8 and upgrade was the SS... Like you couldnt get a Camaro V8 without getting a Z28...

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    "Corporate" engines (e.g., the 307 in your Pontiac Larry) FTL...
    Might as well be a Canadian Pontiac,,,,,eh??

    Although I also own a "REAL" pontiac , I have nothing against the corporate engine thing. I was just getting at the fact that GM hasn't offered different engine options for a model line for a long long time now.

    You pick a car,,,,and you are stuck with what ever engine they are built with,,,no choices anymore.

    Edit: Or to take that a step further,,,,you pick which engine you are looking for, and then you are stuck with the car it comes in,,,that's even worse I think,,,lol.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 04-17-2010 at 08:07 AM.

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