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Difference in SS/Z28?

This is a discussion on Difference in SS/Z28? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Just wanted to chirp in my .02 here. '69 Z-28's were an awsome car, I bought one in the spring ...

  1. #101
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    Just wanted to chirp in my .02 here.
    '69 Z-28's were an awsome car, I bought one in the spring of 1972,
    yellow with black stripes. 373 gear, standard 302. This car would just scream
    up on top. At 7000 rpm it was a monster. It had factory chambered exhalst.
    At high rpm's it sounded like 30-06's going off when you backed off the gas.

    But ............... The 1969 (396) and 1970 (402) Camaro SS with the L-78
    option was also a solid lifter engine with 375 SCREAMING horses. 11-1 comp.
    I also had one of these (1970 L-78) engines in a '69 Camaro that I bought in 1979. (A friend of mine still has the engine.) Now I don't know if anyone could describe the incredible power these engines made, with out going for a ride in one. Large rect. port heads, High lift cam, large intake and exh. In my opnion the only difference in these engines and the legendary L-S6 454 450 hp. was the size of the pistons.

    Anyone out there with a '69 or '70 L-78 Camaro knows exactly what I'm saying. I had to run blue airplane fuel in my L-78, with a lead additive.

    So the 1969 Z-28 was a fantastic car, but imo NOT the L-78 in the Camaro SS.

    I love my 02 SS.
    You can get in our cars and drive to Idaho if you want to.
    Could not really do that with the early Camaro's, well I guess you could have.

    jess ......

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    2002 ss - Black - A4 - 323 - SLP loudmouth 11 - SLP lid - SLP # 5846

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonj601 View Post
    i believe the SS has an aluminum block and the Z28 has an iron block. along with everything else listed above
    your kidding right?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jess View Post
    Just wanted to chirp in my .02 here.
    '69 Z-28's were an awsome car, I bought one in the spring of 1972,
    yellow with black stripes. 373 gear, standard 302. This car would just scream
    up on top. At 7000 rpm it was a monster. It had factory chambered exhalst.
    At high rpm's it sounded like 30-06's going off when you backed off the gas.

    But ............... The 1969 (396) and 1970 (402) Camaro SS with the L-78
    option was also a solid lifter engine with 375 SCREAMING horses. 11-1 comp.
    I also had one of these (1970 L-78) engines in a '69 Camaro that I bought in 1979. (A friend of mine still has the engine.) Now I don't know if anyone could describe the incredible power these engines made, with out going for a ride in one. Large rect. port heads, High lift cam, large intake and exh. In my opnion the only difference in these engines and the legendary L-S6 454 450 hp. was the size of the pistons.

    Anyone out there with a '69 or '70 L-78 Camaro knows exactly what I'm saying. I had to run blue airplane fuel in my L-78, with a lead additive.

    So the 1969 Z-28 was a fantastic car, but imo NOT the L-78 in the Camaro SS.

    I love my 02 SS.
    You can get in our cars and drive to Idaho if you want to.
    Could not really do that with the early Camaro's, well I guess you could have.

    jess ......

    ___________________________________________


    2002 ss - Black - A4 - 323 - SLP loudmouth 11 - SLP lid - SLP # 5846
    Jess I agree, I had a 69 Z and a pair of 69 SS 396/375 camaros followed that. All of those cars loved alot of rearend gear,,,lol. I loved them all but became a fan of big blocks. I still own 3 big block cars and also a screaming small block car as well.
    As far as driving them accross country,,,well,,,,I drove and still drive my old big block cars on cross country adventures.
    The only difference to me between the old and new is the gas mileage,,,and well quite frankly if I cared about mileage I would be driving chevette anyway Larry.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Jess I agree, I had a 69 Z and a pair of 69 SS 396/375 camaros followed that. All of those cars loved alot of rearend gear,,,lol. I loved them all but became a fan of big blocks. I still own 3 big block cars and also a screaming small block car as well.
    As far as driving them accross country,,,well,,,,I drove and still drive my old big block cars on cross country adventures.
    The only difference to me between the old and new is the gas mileage,,,and well quite frankly if I cared about mileage I would be driving chevette anyway Larry.
    Larry....I agree with you. I am a fan of the big blocks. I had a 1967 Corvette with the 427/430 hp option. The hp on those engines were so underrated. I know for sure that this car had 500 hp from the factory. My car came with the close ratio 4 spd, 4.10 gears, no power options except power steering. This car was an absolute beast. I had to run race gas in the car most of the time to get it to run properly but at the time my father was a big time drag racer with a sponsor so the fuel was not a problem. I currently own a red '57 Chevy Pro St with a punched out big block along with my Camaros. I reinstalled the 4 spd when I turned the car into a Pro Street car. It turns heads everywhere I go and I like it when people ask "Why did you go with the 4 spd instead of an automatic? As far as the big block goes, it is like the old drag racing saying goes, "there is no replacement for displacement".

  5. #105
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    Hey Firebirdjones and niterydr

    Its good to talk about those cars.
    In 1971 when I was in the 11th grade, my dad sort of let me drive our family car, a 1966 Caprice with 396 and turbo 400, red tag posi. It was a great car and I remember this kid that was in the same grade as me and his parents had a lot of money. They bought him a new 340 4 barrel dodge. He was always shooting his mouth off in school so this one day I was going down the road with my girlfriend in the Caprice and we were doing about 60 mph here comes the new blue 340 dodge, well I waited until he was right beside me and then nailed it, It was close for a spell but then the caprice started to pull away from him. My girl was just screaming to STOP IT, STOP IT. Well The speedo went way past 120 and bow tie justice was done that day, as I just kept pulling slowly away. Man those big blocks like to run. Wish I still had that car.
    Don't have that girl, by the way.
    One of the best cars I have ever owned was a 1971 Caprice with the stock 402 Big Block, turbo 400 and red tag posi rear end. But that is another story.
    Time to get off my soapbox.

    jess ...........

  6. #106
    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    hey i remember seeing RS models in the LT1s but from the 98+ did they have RS's ??? sorry just became a camaro guy, switeched last year after a 99 and a 01 TA.

    i know they were v 6's but what was different about the standard v6 to a RS?+ how much more was it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by greatwhiteZ28 View Post
    hey i remember seeing RS models in the LT1s but from the 98+ did they have RS's ??? sorry just became a camaro guy, switeched last year after a 99 and a 01 TA.

    i know they were v 6's but what was different about the standard v6 to a RS?+ how much more was it?
    The only model years that a true RS existed as a fourth generation camaro (1993-2002) were 1996, 1997, 2001 and 2002. All were V6 3.8 liter cars.

    The main differences between the 1996-97 RS from a regular V6 Coupe or convertible was option code Y3F - Rear spoiler extension, front air dam extension, lower rear bumper valance and lower body side extensions - and "RS" badges. All RS cars also came with 16 x 8 aluminum alloy wheels. The RS was a standard dealer Camaro brochure item in these model years.

    LT1 cars never came from the factory with option code Y3F and thus there never was an official Z28 RS car in 1996-97. According to the Assistant Camaro brand manager, this was due to the LT1 having cooling issues with the air dam designed for the RS.

    However, you could purchase the "F-1" package, which was a GM Specialty Vehicle kit fro the Camaro. The "F-1" package included the exact same RS body pieces, Rally Stripes and "F-1" badges - plus some of the SLP goodies that were options on the Camaro SS (Hurst Shifter, SS exhaust, suspension parts and the 17 x 9 painted ZR1 wheels). You could also purchase some of these items individually or have them installed at the dealer.

    Here is where the confusion begins for those that absolutely swear up and down that the RS was available in the 1998-2000 model years.

    Starting in the 1998 model year, GM renamed option code Y3F from "RS Appearance package" to "Sport Appearance Package".

    The differences between the original and the new package was that the new front air dam now comprised of two separate "winglet" pieces, which attached only to the front bumper sides. This new air dam setup eliminated the center section, resolving any cooling issues that could occur on the V8 cars. This new option kit also did not contain any "RS" badges. You could get this option on both the V6 and the V8, but not with the SS (option code WU8).

    Yes, these cars indeed looked like RS's, but officially, they were not.

    For the 2001 and 2002 model years, option code Y3F carried on in the same manner as 1998 through 2000. But.................

    Starting with the 2001 model year, SLP Engineering reintroduced the Camaro RS, which was now GM option code Y3B.

    Option code Y3B only consisted of a special front grille with a red Chevy "bowtie" emblem, Rally Stripes, and a Z28 style dual rectangular outlet exhaust (actually the right side outlet pipe was pretty much blocked off), "RS" exterior badging and a "RS" dash plaque.The horsepower rating was advertised as 205 (standard horsepower rating was 200). The Rally Stripe colors were silver or black. The RS Package added $849.00 to the sticker price.

    Only two additional RS options from SLP were offered. These were 16 x 8 painted ZR1 aluminum alloy wheels ($699) and the "Rally Sport Suspension Package", which contained the larger Z28 front and rear sway bars ($299).

    Option code Y3B was only offered on the V6 coupe and convertible and could not be ordered with option code Y3F or option code Y87 - Special Handling Package (essentially the stock Z28 suspension system, steering rack, unique dual outlet exhaust and maybe a Torsen differential). All other Chevy V6 options were available. I have seen a few with painted and chrome "snowflake" wheels.

    All 2001 and 2002 RS cars were sent to SLP Engineering to add the contents of option code Y3B. These cars also have SLP build numbers, just like SS cars and are among the rarest of the 2001 and 2002 Camaro models. There were less than 400 2001 models built and exactly 443 2002 models built (my car is number 438). Also, you won't find the RS mentioned in the 2001 or 2002 standard dealer Camaro brochures.

    Apparently, there actually was one 2001 or 2002 RS mistakenly sent to SLP with option code Y3F body pieces installed. This car was converted to add RS content and eventually delivered to a dealer (I'll bet the recipient didn't know what a rare vehicle it was that they brought home).

    Also, there were about five 2000 RS cars built for GM validation purposes. These were not sold to the public. If they were, there are 5 more lucky people.

    Interesting fact: 2001 & 2002 RS cars sold new in California and New York were only available with the automatic transmission. The manual transmission cars exceeded CA and NY noise statutes for new cars.

    Based on a national dealer inventory search in January of 2003, my 2002 RS apparently was the very last unsold 2002 car available with a manual transmission. At the same time, there were only six remaining RS cars with automatic transmissions. I purchased the car from a dealer in Pennsylvania and had it trucked out to California. Because the car's emmisions information sticker stated that it conformed to all "U.S. EPA and NLEV regulations and California Regulations", I was able to register the car in California with only 32 miles on the odometer. At the time, the minimum mileage required for registering an out of state car in CA was 7,500 miles. Even though my car was technically legal, I still had to get a smog inspection before I was allowed to register the car.

    Also in the 2001 and 2002 Model years, SLP offered the Firebird GT, again only available as a V6.

    The GT package mainly consisted of the optional Firebird lower body appearance kit (option code W68) and special stripes. I would have to assume that these are rarer than the SLP Camaro RS.
    Vance Chula
    1996 Camaro Z28 SS #1688
    2010 Camaro 2LT RS
    http://www.cardomain.com/id/vchula

  8. #108
    Senior Member greatwhiteZ28's Avatar
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    woow someone paid attention in camaro class, jk, dud great info and that would be very cool to own a rare breed even thoe there a v6

    thanks again

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby97SS View Post
    One more thing. Anyone ever heard of Camaro/mustang challenge? Its roadracing with production cars. And you cant run SS's or Cobras. Z's and GT's only. I guess they dont like the hoods.
    Why do you think that they created the challenge this way????? SS's and Cobra's are limited production vehicles and not everybody has one. Look on every street corner and you will see a damn cheap GT. You will not see as many Z/28 Camaros as GT's but you surely will not see SS's or Cobras on every street corner. I am not trying to say that the Z/28 or GT's are not nice cars, I have a Z/28 myself along with a SS, but the Camaro - Mustang challenge was created this way so that the average Joe could compete. I wish that you guys would get off the ego trip between SS's and Z/28, both are very nice cars and you should be proud to own either of these beasts.

  10. #110
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    The LS1 cars are not allowed in the CMC period Z28 or SS. They have to compete in CMC-2 where they BOTH are allowed just like the newer 3v cars and Cobras. And if the Average joe could afford an Z28 surely he could afford an SS many ordered the Z28 because its basically the same car with some minor improvements that would be changed out anyway. The SS and Cobra option did not make it any less an "average joe's" car and I'm sorry if you feel otherwise. It has nothing to do with limited production or anything similar either its all hp to weight ratios. When it first came out it was limited to 5.0 engines so only the 305 and 302's competed. when the SS became an option first on the LT1 it created a rules change as did when the LS1's came out. I have a Z28 and am no way butthurt that some think it was the redheaded stepchild to the SS. I like it that way my first two "kills" were SS's and that was stock to stock. But thinking that "SS" or "Cobra" makes it above the average joe to me just kinda sounds a little off.

    http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/
    Rules and info scroll to the bottom of page 5.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    The LS1 cars are not allowed in the CMC period Z28 or SS. They have to compete in CMC-2 where they BOTH are allowed just like the newer 3v cars and Cobras. And if the Average joe could afford an Z28 surely he could afford an SS many ordered the Z28 because its basically the same car with some minor improvements that would be changed out anyway. The SS and Cobra option did not make it any less an "average joe's" car and I'm sorry if you feel otherwise. It has nothing to do with limited production or anything similar either its all hp to weight ratios. When it first came out it was limited to 5.0 engines so only the 305 and 302's competed. when the SS became an option first on the LT1 it created a rules change as did when the LS1's came out. I have a Z28 and am no way butthurt that some think it was the redheaded stepchild to the SS. I like it that way my first two "kills" were SS's and that was stock to stock. But thinking that "SS" or "Cobra" makes it above the average joe to me just kinda sounds a little off.

    http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/
    Rules and info scroll to the bottom of page 5.
    Excuse me for using the term "Average Joe.", you took the term out of context and I am so sorry that I offended a lot of guys out there with a very soft side. All that I am trying to say is that the Z/28 and SS, along with the Cobra and GT are all nice cars in my opinion. It really gives me the sh#ts when all of these guys fuss over a hood and spoiler option or a Snake vs GT option. Hell, there are a lot of guys and girls out there who would love to be able to own any of these cars. The Z/28 vs the SS is bullsh#t. Both of these cars have the same powerplant, the difference is in options and resale value that make these cars cost a premium price. If you don't want the looks of the hood / spoiler package and some of the extra performance options, then purchase the Z/28 but don't rag on the guys who have SS's just because you didn't have the money to purchase one or that you just didn't want the SS in the first place. There is a hell of a difference between the Cobra vs GT options which is why the Cobra demands a higher price and I beg to differ on your quote that "And if the Average joe could afford an Z28 surely he could afford an SS many ordered the Z28 because its basically the same car with some minor improvements that would be changed out anyway." And as for your "kills", watch what you play with. Keep trying the SS's and admit it when you get you a@* handed to you, because you have not run up with the right SS if you are indeed running stock vs stock. I have both a Z/28 and SS. My SS is a fully optioned SLP car and I will tell you that stock vs stock, the SS is faster and quicker. Just letting you know what not to play with!!

  12. #112
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    I agree with niteryder,,,especially on the cost aspect of things, the price difference between the SS and Z-28 was rather large even when these cars were new and are still holding their value today. Saying that you could afford the Z-28 and therefore afford an SS too is not really being honest with yourself.

    These unique SS cars and other types of unique cars in the Ford and Chrysler lineup that cost more than the average car, is what keeps things interesting, and the price differences keep the average person from buying these types of cars,,,production numbers stay low,,,,and years on down the road these cars are few and far between. Which is why they still command higher prices even 10-20 years later. Supply and demand.

    It's nothing to argue over,,,who cares what is faster, thats not really the point. The days of ordering a stripped down racer with dog dish hubcaps are over.
    I own both versions and to sit here and argue which is better is kinda silly. This is supposed to be an F-body community.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    I agree with niteryder,,,especially on the cost aspect of things, the price difference between the SS and Z-28 was rather large even when these cars were new and are still holding their value today. Saying that you could afford the Z-28 and therefore afford an SS too is not really being honest with yourself.

    These unique SS cars and other types of unique cars in the Ford and Chrysler lineup that cost more than the average car, is what keeps things interesting, and the price differences keep the average person from buying these types of cars,,,production numbers stay low,,,,and years on down the road these cars are few and far between. Which is why they still command higher prices even 10-20 years later. Supply and demand.

    It's nothing to argue over,,,who cares what is faster, thats not really the point. The days of ordering a stripped down racer with dog dish hubcaps are over.
    I own both versions and to sit here and argue which is better is kinda silly. This is supposed to be an F-body community.
    Thanks for your comments Firebirdjones and I agree with you.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by niterydr View Post
    Excuse me for using the term "Average Joe.", you took the term out of context and I am so sorry that I offended a lot of guys out there with a very soft side. All that I am trying to say is that the Z/28 and SS, along with the Cobra and GT are all nice cars in my opinion. It really gives me the sh#ts when all of these guys fuss over a hood and spoiler option or a Snake vs GT option. Hell, there are a lot of guys and girls out there who would love to be able to own any of these cars. The Z/28 vs the SS is bullsh#t. Both of these cars have the same powerplant, the difference is in options and resale value that make these cars cost a premium price. If you don't want the looks of the hood / spoiler package and some of the extra performance options, then purchase the Z/28 but don't rag on the guys who have SS's just because you didn't have the money to purchase one or that you just didn't want the SS in the first place. There is a hell of a difference between the Cobra vs GT options which is why the Cobra demands a higher price and I beg to differ on your quote that "And if the Average joe could afford an Z28 surely he could afford an SS many ordered the Z28 because its basically the same car with some minor improvements that would be changed out anyway." And as for your "kills", watch what you play with. Keep trying the SS's and admit it when you get you a@* handed to you, because you have not run up with the right SS if you are indeed running stock vs stock. I have both a Z/28 and SS. My SS is a fully optioned SLP car and I will tell you that stock vs stock, the SS is faster and quicker. Just letting you know what not to play with!!

    First off I never ragged on anyone for buying an SS its a Camaro for petes sake. I just responded to the obvious SS>Z stigma that I have read throughout this thread. "Your" SS may be faster than "your" Z28 but it all boils down to options. My auto Z weighs 3506 with me in it, the jack and spare, 3/4 tank of gas AND full washer fluid. And was purposely ordered that way and I can garuntee that stock for stock it was faster than any auto SS even with the old 2.73 gear. And for some odd reason it even came with WS6 decorbon shocks. Options make the difference not the badges with these cars period in a performance standpoint. My friend with the same stripper Z only his is a stick was probably faster than any stock SS period. It's not because its a Z28 its because its the way it was optioned. Stripper Z VS a SS which always comes fully loaded and at least 300 lbs heavier and maybe a 2 hp advantage will always come out for the lighter car which mine usually is. I'm nowhere near stock now so my car as a comparison is pretty much moot I hunt modded termys and vipers nowadays (well soon as I get the speedo problem fixed)and will no doubt see mid to low 10's in the 1/4. But that is what "My" car's point was from the get go: a stripped down racer (kind of keeping all original equipment and I won't lighten it any further than the factory did), and was ordered accordingly for about 10k less than a standard SS because as I stated earlier everything from a performance standpoint on an SS was replaced long ago on this and probably most cars out there.

    Everything else sure I agree my no option 2000 Z has a resale of oh about 6k (-8k in mods) whereas a fully loaded vert SS could probably command 15K, which is certainly attainable by just about anyone with a steady job however a fully loaded Z vs a comparable SS is only a couple Grand less nowadays if any. I just get tired of the same elitist attitude I run up against with "some" (not all) SS owners who think that badge automatically made theirs faster moreso on the street than this forum but there are a few here as well. I wont "argue" over which is better nor will I ever say a Z or SS is better than the other especially LS1 based cars however I will also not be quiet when I hear otherwise.

    Edit I had to repost this as I just read this comment "just because you didn't have the money to purchase one or that you just didn't want the SS in the first place". First off like I said earlier the price difference in the 2 were not over 5k for just the SS option I could have bought either had I wanted to straight off the lot or one of each used. My original statements in that post still stand an SS is still an average joe car the Camaro in general always was. The Vette is not but the SS is no vette.
    Last edited by slims00ls1z28; 06-18-2007 at 07:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slims00ls1z28 View Post
    First off I never ragged on anyone for buying an SS its a Camaro for petes sake. I just responded to the obvious SS>Z stigma that I have read throughout this thread. "Your" SS may be faster than "your" Z28 but it all boils down to options. My auto Z weighs 3506 with me in it, the jack and spare, 3/4 tank of gas AND full washer fluid. And was purposely ordered that way and I can garuntee that stock for stock it was faster than any auto SS even with the old 2.73 gear. And for some odd reason it even came with WS6 decorbon shocks. Options make the difference not the badges with these cars period in a performance standpoint. My friend with the same stripper Z only his is a stick was probably faster than any stock SS period. It's not because its a Z28 its because its the way it was optioned. Stripper Z VS a SS which always comes fully loaded and at least 300 lbs heavier and maybe a 2 hp advantage will always come out for the lighter car which mine usually is. I'm nowhere near stock now so my car as a comparison is pretty much moot I hunt modded termys and vipers nowadays (well soon as I get the speedo problem fixed)and will no doubt see mid to low 10's in the 1/4. But that is what "My" car's point was from the get go: a stripped down racer (kind of keeping all original equipment and I won't lighten it any further than the factory did), and was ordered accordingly for about 10k less than a standard SS because as I stated earlier everything from a performance standpoint on an SS was replaced long ago on this and probably most cars out there.

    Everything else sure I agree my no option 2000 Z has a resale of oh about 6k (-8k in mods) whereas a fully loaded vert SS could probably command 15K, which is certainly attainable by just about anyone with a steady job however a fully loaded Z vs a comparable SS is only a couple Grand less nowadays if any. I just get tired of the same elitist attitude I run up against with "some" (not all) SS owners who think that badge automatically made theirs faster moreso on the street than this forum but there are a few here as well. I wont "argue" over which is better nor will I ever say a Z or SS is better than the other especially LS1 based cars however I will also not be quiet when I hear otherwise.

    Edit I had to repost this as I just read this comment "just because you didn't have the money to purchase one or that you just didn't want the SS in the first place". First off like I said earlier the price difference in the 2 were not over 5k for just the SS option I could have bought either had I wanted to straight off the lot or one of each used. My original statements in that post still stand an SS is still an average joe car the Camaro in general always was. The Vette is not but the SS is no vette.
    I value your opinion. I sold a 2002 SS and purchased a C5 vette. Guess what, I liked my SS better than my Corvette so I sold the vette and looked for another 2002 SS optioned like I wanted. I do not think that any Z/28 or SS is an average joe car, I was just using that statement to make a point. Anyway, I apologize for stepping on your toes. I am not out here to argue with anyone and I could really care less which one is faster, I like both of my cars. So there you have it.....the Vette was a very nice car but it ultimately boils down to what the owner wants out of his / her car and the Camaro ended up giving ME the most satisfaction in the end.

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