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Dead Future Camaros

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    Camaro Goes Hybrid, As GM Axes Rear-Drive Impala, LaCrosse?

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/blog/?p=759

    General Motors has been forced to rework the investment case for the Chevrolet Camaro in the wake of new fuel-economy rules adopted this past December.

    The Camaro will still be built, but higher-end V-8 versions likely will be priced higher than expected. As for other planned GM rear-drivers–a new Chevrolet Impala, Buick LaCrosse and the replacement for the Pontiac G8 due this spring–all have been dropped along with a new V-8 engine GM was contemplating building.

    “You can’t kill something that was never approved,” said one GM official, who asked for anonymity but who confirmed the rear-wheel-drive projects are now dead.

    Stew Low, a spokesman for GM of Canada, said the Camaro project is safe and is moving forward. The GM of Canada plant in Oshawa, Ontario outside of Toronto should be ready to build the first Camaro late this year, Low said.

    Buzz Hargrove, president of the Canadian Auto Workers union, said that GM is spending $2.5 billion in Oshawa - including $435 million from the Ontario and Canadian federal governments.

    “We anticipated that would be followed by other rear-wheel-drive vehicles, but the money they spent on the plant makes it a flex plant, so you can build both front-drive and rear-wheel-drive in the facility,'’ Hargrove told reporters in Canada.

    Only a proposal for new ultra-luxury rear-wheel-drive Cadillac seems to still have a chance of making it through GM’s product development process and into production. Even that project, though, may well depend on how the Environmental Protection Agency writes the rules enforcing the new fuel-economy standards.

    The death of the other rear-drive GM vehicles also has implications for the final pricing of the Camaro when it goes on sale next year.

    Last year, GM vice chairman Robert Lutz had told TheCarConnection.com that the rear-wheel-drive platform developed for the Camaro would support other vehicles as part of GM’s effort to make the project financially manageable. Spinning more vehicles from one platform spreads the costs around and is the most efficient and effective way for GM to use its available capital, Lutz has said.

    As part of global product strategy GM plans to use fewer but more flexible platforms that would accommodate a wider range of vehicles and vehicle designs. Specifically, the new Camaro platform could be used for other rear-drive vehicles, Lutz said he said before the fuel-economy debate had heated up in Congress.

    Part of the reason for the delay in moving forward with the Camaro project revolved around extending the utility of the fundamental architecture so it could serve as the platform for other vehicles as well, he said.

    The new fuel-economy rules, however, have basically forced GM to reconsider its extensive plans for rear-wheel-drive vehicles. Rear-wheel-drive trucks and SUVs are safe for now because the new federal rules will allow some wiggle room for trucks. GM, though, is not in a position to absorb the roughly 1-mpg fuel-economy penalty that comes with building rear-wheel-drive passenger cars, GM insiders said in the wake of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

    However, GM’s decision to scrap the other rear-drive models is putting an enormous cost burden on the new Camaro.

    GM officials are saying they should be able to recover some of the investment costs in the new rear-wheel-drive platform by selling the vehicles in places such as Australia, the Middle East and China. Australia, however, has a new government that takes global warming very seriously. China is imposing new fuel-economy standards that are as tough as those found in the United States and one of the largest vehicle markets in the Middle East, Iran, is off limits to American car companies.

    Nevertheless, GM desperately wants to price the new Camaro competitively against vehicles like the new Dodge Challenger and particularly the Ford Mustang, which pretty much inherited the segment after GM withdrew the Camaro earlier in the decade.

    With a new generation of rear-wheel-drive vehicles consigned to the never-built file somewhere in the company’s engineering office, GM now is working on a plan B for Camaro.

    GM chairman Richard Wagoner has already confirmed a V-6 engine will be part of the Camaro package.

    While the concept Camaro has come with V-8 engine, a V-6 would serve as basic engine for the production Camaro and would help keep prices competitive.

    Meanwhile, Tom Stephens, the head of GM’s Powertrain Group, told reporters recently that turbocharging can help boost both fuel economy and horsepower.

    The V-8 version of the Camaro is very likely carry a substantial premium and GM is thought to have assigned a team of engineers to work out how to apply its new dual-mode hybrid system for an even more expensive version of the Camaro.–By Joseph Szczesny

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    Not good news at all
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    Awesome let's hurt American car companies even more.

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    Party Time, Excellent... Kingc8r's Avatar
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    Just when I thought things were turning around for the better. What's next turbo 4 cylinder trucks? This is getting ridiculous, I mean c'mon what are they thinking? I know a lot of people were waiting for a rear wheel Impala and now they do this. I bet my father in law is going to be pissed as it's all he has been talking about

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    Aw shucks. bluefields88's Avatar
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    oh man, at least we got our cars. Don't sell them, they'll be worth alot of money some day.

  8. #8
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    I was gonna say the same thing. Death by Displacement is no more...
    5th T/A is looking bad...
    Gives me that wierd feeling like when i put lead in the gas of my WWII jeep...

  9. #9
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    It's a shame. Hang onto the camaro's you have now.

    All this gas economy crap boils down to all the tree huggers, global warming ideas etc....and Busch had to sign the gas bill before he leaves office to make it look like he cares,,,just like his Daddy did years ago that started all the emissions checking crap. It all just trickles down.

    You can bet whatever new president we end up with will follow along the same lines, and more than likely things will get worse in years to come.

    Enjoy our cars while we can.

  10. #10
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    its hard for me to believe a post from a guy with a 2003 hawk

    anyway, if that's the case, it's going to drive the camaro price upto rediculous levels, even in v6 form...who wants that?
    Last edited by third_shift|studios; 02-05-2008 at 06:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingc8r View Post
    Just when I thought things were turning around for the better. What's next turbo 4 cylinder trucks? This is getting ridiculous, I mean c'mon what are they thinking? I know a lot of people were waiting for a rear wheel Impala and now they do this. I bet my father in law is going to be pissed as it's all he has been talking about
    Call your local Congressman and Senator then!! You know you have a right too, right? Tell them CAFE is crap and to rethink what they're doing and get their heads out of their asses! Until then, you have no one to blame but you.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoshieDoom View Post
    I was gonna say the same thing. Death by Displacement is no more...
    5th T/A is looking bad...
    Gives me that wierd feeling like when i put lead in the gas of my WWII jeep...
    Um... Well, Bob Lutz happened to be in my office just last wednesday (honestly, no joke) and we had a 2 hour Q&A session. I specifically asked if their would be a T/A and he said, "without a doubt, no."

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    Post Dead Future Camaros

    Read the below article if you don't know. It looks as though that Camaro will die again if it's priced in along side the Corvette to reduced the manufacturing cost. It's a damn shame! If the Camaro is in the 50k range, many people will lose interest! This is a big time screw up!

    __________________________________________________ _________


    General Motors has been forced to rework the investment case for the Chevrolet Camaro in the wake of new fuel-economy rules adopted this past December.

    The Camaro will still be built, but higher-end V-8 versions likely will be priced higher than expected. As for other planned GM rear-drivers–a new Chevrolet Impala, Buick LaCrosse and the replacement for the Pontiac G8 due this spring–all have been dropped along with a new V-8 engine GM was contemplating building.

    “You can’t kill something that was never approved,” said one GM official, who asked for anonymity but who confirmed the rear-wheel-drive projects are now dead.

    Stew Low, a spokesman for GM of Canada, said the Camaro project is safe and is moving forward. The GM of Canada plant in Oshawa, Ontario outside of Toronto should be ready to build the first Camaro late this year, Low said.

    Buzz Hargrove, president of the Canadian Auto Workers union, said that GM is spending $2.5 billion in Oshawa - including $435 million from the Ontario and Canadian federal governments.

    “We anticipated that would be followed by other rear-wheel-drive vehicles, but the money they spent on the plant makes it a flex plant, so you can build both front-drive and rear-wheel-drive in the facility,'’ Hargrove told reporters in Canada.

    Only a proposal for new ultra-luxury rear-wheel-drive Cadillac seems to still have a chance of making it through GM’s product development process and into production. Even that project, though, may well depend on how the Environmental Protection Agency writes the rules enforcing the new fuel-economy standards.

    The death of the other rear-drive GM vehicles also has implications for the final pricing of the Camaro when it goes on sale next year.

    Last year, GM vice chairman Robert Lutz had told TheCarConnection.com that the rear-wheel-drive platform developed for the Camaro would support other vehicles as part of GM’s effort to make the project financially manageable. Spinning more vehicles from one platform spreads the costs around and is the most efficient and effective way for GM to use its available capital, Lutz has said.

    As part of global product strategy GM plans to use fewer but more flexible platforms that would accommodate a wider range of vehicles and vehicle designs. Specifically, the new Camaro platform could be used for other rear-drive vehicles, Lutz said he said before the fuel-economy debate had heated up in Congress.

    Part of the reason for the delay in moving forward with the Camaro project revolved around extending the utility of the fundamental architecture so it could serve as the platform for other vehicles as well, he said.

    The new fuel-economy rules, however, have basically forced GM to reconsider its extensive plans for rear-wheel-drive vehicles. Rear-wheel-drive trucks and SUVs are safe for now because the new federal rules will allow some wiggle room for trucks. GM, though, is not in a position to absorb the roughly 1-mpg fuel-economy penalty that comes with building rear-wheel-drive passenger cars, GM insiders said in the wake of the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

    However, GM’s decision to scrap the other rear-drive models is putting an enormous cost burden on the new Camaro.

    GM officials are saying they should be able to recover some of the investment costs in the new rear-wheel-drive platform by selling the vehicles in places such as Australia, the Middle East and China. Australia, however, has a new government that takes global warming very seriously. China is imposing new fuel-economy standards that are as tough as those found in the United States and one of the largest vehicle markets in the Middle East, Iran, is off limits to American car companies.

    Nevertheless, GM desperately wants to price the new Camaro competitively against vehicles like the new Dodge Challenger and particularly the Ford Mustang, which pretty much inherited the segment after GM withdrew the Camaro earlier in the decade.

    With a new generation of rear-wheel-drive vehicles consigned to the never-built file somewhere in the company’s engineering office, GM now is working on a plan B for Camaro.

    GM chairman Richard Wagoner has already confirmed a V-6 engine will be part of the Camaro package.

    While the concept Camaro has come with V-8 engine, a V-6 would serve as basic engine for the production Camaro and would help keep prices competitive.

    Meanwhile, Tom Stephens, the head of GM’s Powertrain Group, told reporters recently that turbocharging can help boost both fuel economy and horsepower.

    The V-8 version of the Camaro is very likely carry a substantial premium and GM is thought to have assigned a team of engineers to work out how to apply its new dual-mode hybrid system for an even more expensive version of the Camaro.–By Joseph Szczesny

  13. #13
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    Thank all the morons blaming everything in the climate on cars, global warming is a myth and we are all going to pay. Sorry you live in cali where most of the wackos push unrealistic rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTODD View Post
    Thank all the morons blaming everything in the climate on cars, global warming is a myth and we are all going to pay. Sorry you live in cali where most of the wackos push unrealistic rules.

    Especially in California! I was so looking forward to getting my TA to make it for another 2 years before selling it and going for the Camaro when it is due out! If the makeup for the cost is based on the 40,000 pricing range...... and to eliminate ownership in an effort to reduce emission, forget it, I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole! People interested in muscle vehicles will likely go for a Vette with a couple thousand more.

    Afordability of the Camaro is out the window. Ownership equals production. I can almost bet that future production of the Camaro will come to a hault in the future once again. GM can sell as many V6s as they want, but I don't see sales from those will make up for incur production cost.

    GM is being hit hard with the production drop from their other rear wheel vehicles. They have had a rough 2007.

    The Tesla Hybrid engine is the way to go when it comes to Torque, fuel efficency.... but not cost hahahahah 100k for that puppy! Just imagine 105 miles per a gallon as they proclaim. Man that is awesome!

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    Member hoss 2000 z-28's Avatar
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    Agreed, even astronomers are saying that it's not just Earth that is warming up:
    http://www.livescience.com/environme...s_warming.html

    It is sad to see the revival of the beloved Camaro get set back by beurocratic nonsense. It will probably make current enthusiast cars more sought after though over time.

  16. #16
    GM made me do it!! IT_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSTODD View Post
    Thank all the morons blaming everything in the climate on cars, global warming is a myth and we are all going to pay. Sorry you live in cali where most of the wackos push unrealistic rules.
    aint that the truth

  17. #17
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoss 2000 z-28 View Post
    Agreed, even astronomers are saying that it's not just Earth that is warming up:
    http://www.livescience.com/environme...s_warming.html

    It is sad to see the revival of the beloved Camaro get set back by beurocratic nonsense. It will probably make current enthusiast cars more sought after though over time.
    Your right, it will make current and previous cars more sought after,,,,as long as we can still buy gas for them.

    The direction this country is heading is not very car friendly. I don't really hang on the whole global warming theory, we still haven't broken hundreds of high temperatures around here that were set in the 1880's, before gas engines,,,,lol. Why are all our record high temps from the late 1800's and very early 1900's????? There wasn't wide spread industry at the time,,,and cars were in there infancy... Couldn't possibly be global warming back then caused by gasoline products and polution like the government wants you to believe is the cause now..... Those that think global warming is a problem weren't in Ohio these past couple of weeks with 15 below zeerrro temps,,,lol.

    Research has shown ozone depletion is a natural process that can't be stopped anyway.

    Then you have the oil issues over seas as well as right here in our own back yard. Easy to solve,,,but again, politics, environmentalists make it more difficult than it has to be.

    Now with the recent fuel economy rules (thanks to Busch) it's killing the current market as well. He is following in Daddy's footsteps. Just as Daddy Busch did years ago, right before coming out of office he started a big smog check uproar and signed off on it,,,,now his son is doing the same thing,,,signing off on a stringent gas bill before leaving.
    Like either of them really care how much gas we use,,,they made their millions from oil,,,go figure. All of this mentioned has had an overall affect on things that will trickle down. It has influenced alot of the general public into fear of the end of the world as we know it

    I admit I don't like the looks of the new camaro, so whether it makes it to production or how much it will cost is not my concern. But this will affect the future of auto manufactures and what they have to offer,,,,I just wonder how long GM can keep the vette going before it takes a dive as well.

  18. #18
    Just me Y2KPewterSS's Avatar
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    This is a repost from yesterday.

    http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76753

  19. #19
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    This could spell doom for the new Camaros production run if it goes through like this.

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    Man, no kidding! The Vette can die too... thus the ZR-1 will survive with the price of 100,000. The Lambo and Ferraris don't have problems, why not? Because their engine is unreachable by the majority. The ZR-1 will be unreachable as well.

    We are freakin doom to drive sedans in the future. Those with high performance V8s will be tax higher off the road hahahahaha!

    You better save up for that Tesla!

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