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In an argument... Stock HP for SS?

This is a discussion on In an argument... Stock HP for SS? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by side2000 those lt4's were 12.9 sec cars from fact, not to change subject shit i am not ...

  1. #21
    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by side2000 View Post
    those lt4's were 12.9 sec cars from fact, not to change subject
    shit i am not even there yet

  2. #22
    Member jambofla's Avatar
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    Stock SS was advertised at 325HP. SLP performance package 345HP or so my window sticker says

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    When my 2002 Z28 was stock (no mods) with ~20,xxx miles it put down 306/323 on a DynoJet. Stock was advertised at 305 that year.

    The SS/WS6 and SLP cars (Camaro and Firebird) made more hp/tq due to the various mods that they swapped out for the stock parts.

    As we all know an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1 ad infinitum. The Vette was rated higher due to better exhaust. Swap stuff around and a 4th gen can equal a Vette at the rear wheels.

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    Member km346's Avatar
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    Do yourself a favor and don't bother arguing on youtube comments. Some of the stuff I've read on there is so ridiculous i don't even know where to start.

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambofla View Post
    Stock SS was advertised at 325HP. SLP performance package 345HP or so my window sticker says
    That is correct,,,You had 325 on the SS stock,,,and then there were 2 options above that.

    The exhaust package changed the rating to 335 HP and then there was a air intake lid package that changed it to 345 HP.
    It's in my literature as well.

  6. #26
    Member jambofla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    That is correct,,,You had 325 on the SS stock,,,and then there were 2 options above that.

    The exhaust package changed the rating to 335 HP and then there was a air intake lid package that changed it to 345 HP.
    It's in my literature as well.
    Did you get the Birth Certificate with yours?

  7. #27
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambofla View Post
    Did you get the Birth Certificate with yours?
    I have to spend some money to get it. Just haven't gotten around to it yet.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    When my 2002 Z28 was stock (no mods) with ~20,xxx miles it put down 306/323 on a DynoJet. Stock was advertised at 305 that year.

    The SS/WS6 and SLP cars (Camaro and Firebird) made more hp/tq due to the various mods that they swapped out for the stock parts.

    As we all know an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1 ad infinitum. The Vette was rated higher due to better exhaust. Swap stuff around and a 4th gen can equal a Vette at the rear wheels.
    Stock LS1 F-body advertised HP was 305 HP from 1998-2000. Starting in 2001, the F-bodies were advertised with 310 HP. SS's, WS6's, 320 in '98-'00. They got a 5 HP bump in '01 adn '02 for the WS6 and SS. I think that was from the revised intake (LS6). And we all know that if you put that intake on the earlier LS1s, you really get ~10 HP more.

    And yeah, they all were really almost 350, as witnessed by the 1/4 MPH, factory.

    Funny, my 1967 400 4-speed Firebird was rated at 325 (gross) HP factory and I think 400 ft-lbs torque, but even after multiple cam swaps, intakes, Hookers, roller rockers, mildly ported heads, carburetors, distributors etc, the best it ever did at the drag strip was a 13.20 @ 105.7. And 9 MPG. And overheating in traffic. And one stop from its' drum brakes. Sold that car in 2000. Wonder what it would've dynoed in its best tune, 300 RWHP? That car weighed about 3400 lbs.
    Last edited by Too Fast; 02-26-2009 at 03:56 PM.

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    Alright people. We have some different things floating around here. Most seam to say that SS and WS6 had the same HP rating at 325 and that the Firehawks in 02 had 345 (I believe the 01 had 335). But there are a few posts claiming that SLP took the SS and also offered it with the 345. Is this true? I know some of you guys have 01 and 02 SS's.... and if it is true, were some of the WS6's also offered with the "upgraded" package? I have NEVER heard of this before.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    Alright people. We have some different things floating around here. Most seam to say that SS and WS6 had the same HP rating at 325 and that the Firehawks in 02 had 345 (I believe the 01 had 335). But there are a few posts claiming that SLP took the SS and also offered it with the 345. Is this true? I know some of you guys have 01 and 02 SS's.... and if it is true, were some of the WS6's also offered with the "upgraded" package? I have NEVER heard of this before.
    Well, from what I know, SLP upgraded the Trans Ams and Formulas into the Firehawk, and there were different options rather than a standard, set HP. Not sure about the SS's, but probably the same thing, HP could vary 10 or 20 depending on what type of options the customer ordered. Hope this adds to the confusion for ya!

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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    Alright people. We have some different things floating around here. Most seam to say that SS and WS6 had the same HP rating at 325 and that the Firehawks in 02 had 345 (I believe the 01 had 335). But there are a few posts claiming that SLP took the SS and also offered it with the 345. Is this true? I know some of you guys have 01 and 02 SS's.... and if it is true, were some of the WS6's also offered with the "upgraded" package? I have NEVER heard of this before.
    Yes the SS's could be upgraded. I have a pair of SS's with the exhaust package and a claimed 335 HP from SLP. There was also an optional intake lid as I mentioned that bumped it another 10 HP, it eliminated the baffled lid.

  12. #32
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Funny, my 1967 400 4-speed Firebird was rated at 325 (gross) HP factory and I think 400 ft-lbs torque, but even after multiple cam swaps, intakes, Hookers, roller rockers, mildly ported heads, carburetors, distributors etc, the best it ever did at the drag strip was a 13.20 @ 105.7. And 9 MPG. And overheating in traffic. And one stop from its' drum brakes. Sold that car in 2000. Wonder what it would've dynoed in its best tune, 300 RWHP? That car weighed about 3400 lbs.
    The ET and MPH don't sound bad,,,but it shouldn't have taken you multiple cam swaps and ported heads to get there,,,,,,but 9 mpg and overheating??? I think it still had some issues to be ironed out.
    My 70 formula ram air III is rated at 345 HP, still a bone stocker running in pure stock classes, weighs 3,890 lbs. race weight, 3.31 gears and runs 13.60's at 102 mph on stock F/70-14 bias plys,,,,on a chassis dyno it made 301 HP and 355 ft lbs at the wheels, gets 16 mpg highway and idles in 100 degree heat all day long

    It seems the point you are trying to make is these things aren't driveable??? We have taken ours on vacations or to rod runs 1,000 miles away without thinking twice I actually trust it more than these computerized cars if you can believe that one.

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    Senior Member Too Fast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    The ET and MPH don't sound bad,,,but it shouldn't have taken you multiple cam swaps and ported heads to get there,,,,,,but 9 mpg and overheating??? I think it still had some issues to be ironed out.
    My 70 formula ram air III is rated at 345 HP, still a bone stocker running in pure stock classes, weighs 3,890 lbs. race weight, 3.31 gears and runs 13.60's at 102 mph on stock F/70-14 bias plys,,,,on a chassis dyno it made 301 HP and 355 ft lbs at the wheels, gets 16 mpg highway and idles in 100 degree heat all day long

    It seems the point you are trying to make is these things aren't driveable??? We have taken ours on vacations or to rod runs 1,000 miles away without thinking twice I actually trust it more than these computerized cars if you can believe that one.
    Actually the point was, I think todays cars, or at least the LS1 cars, are a vast improvement over the highly regarded muscle cars of the 60s-early 70s. My stock WS6 ran the 1/4 around 13.4, 105 MPH. And does so easily, with almost triple the gas mileage, has AC, and stops well, yadda yadda yadda. I never had the time or desire to really fine tune the '67. I did try multiple ways to quell the overheating, but it would always creep up on hot days at idle or slow speeds. Then it would get hot again at a constant over 70 MPH. It only once or twice made me pull over and cool off in the 11 years I had it, but it was almost always on the verge!

    Sounds like you have that '70 Formula in good shape! Have you posted any pics? I have a friend in our club, he has a beautiful '72 Formula, blue, Ram Air and 4 speed.

  14. #34
    Member jambofla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Actually the point was, I think todays cars, or at least the LS1 cars, are a vast improvement over the highly regarded muscle cars of the 60s-early 70s. My stock WS6 ran the 1/4 around 13.4, 105 MPH. And does so easily, with almost triple the gas mileage, has AC, and stops well, yadda yadda yadda. I never had the time or desire to really fine tune the '67. I did try multiple ways to quell the overheating, but it would always creep up on hot days at idle or slow speeds. Then it would get hot again at a constant over 70 MPH. It only once or twice made me pull over and cool off in the 11 years I had it, but it was almost always on the verge!

    Sounds like you have that '70 Formula in good shape! Have you posted any pics? I have a friend in our club, he has a beautiful '72 Formula, blue, Ram Air and 4 speed.
    I agree with what you say about the comparison between old and new. I love the old designs but it is remarkable how much better the new cars drive, ride and the mileage is another plus. I drive the 07 Vette or 02 Camaro when I don't need to haul anything because they get better mileage than anything else in the yard.
    I just hope this economic thing doesn't do to performance cars what the gas shortage did in the 70's.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by architect7 View Post
    Alright people. We have some different things floating around here. Most seam to say that SS and WS6 had the same HP rating at 325 and that the Firehawks in 02 had 345 (I believe the 01 had 335). But there are a few posts claiming that SLP took the SS and also offered it with the 345. Is this true? I know some of you guys have 01 and 02 SS's.... and if it is true, were some of the WS6's also offered with the "upgraded" package? I have NEVER heard of this before.
    All `98-02 SS's were available with the optional SLP Dual Dual exhaust.
    This brought rated HP numbers up to 327 HP (`98-00) and 335 (`01-02)
    The Lid upgrade (345 HP) was Standard on `02 Firehawks and optional on SS that year.

    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    When my 2002 Z28 was stock (no mods) with ~20,xxx miles it put down 306/323 on a DynoJet. Stock was advertised at 305 that year.

    The SS/WS6 and SLP cars (Camaro and Firebird) made more hp/tq due to the various mods that they swapped out for the stock parts.

    As we all know an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1 ad infinitum. The Vette was rated higher due to better exhaust. Swap stuff around and a 4th gen can equal a Vette at the rear wheels.
    Vettes and F-bodies are already egual

    Last edited by 9T8W66; 02-28-2009 at 05:25 AM.
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    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Too Fast View Post
    Actually the point was, I think todays cars, or at least the LS1 cars, are a vast improvement over the highly regarded muscle cars of the 60s-early 70s. My stock WS6 ran the 1/4 around 13.4, 105 MPH. And does so easily, with almost triple the gas mileage, has AC, and stops well, yadda yadda yadda. I never had the time or desire to really fine tune the '67. I did try multiple ways to quell the overheating, but it would always creep up on hot days at idle or slow speeds. Then it would get hot again at a constant over 70 MPH. It only once or twice made me pull over and cool off in the 11 years I had it, but it was almost always on the verge!

    Sounds like you have that '70 Formula in good shape! Have you posted any pics? I have a friend in our club, he has a beautiful '72 Formula, blue, Ram Air and 4 speed.
    I'm more old school but I can appreciate the 4th gens though. I feel my old stuff drives just as well and all that, and I'm much more comfy in them, guess I'm one of the few. I never got hooked on mileage but getting 16 mpg with no overdrive is great, I'm sure with an overdrive I could get 20 out of it just like a 4th gen. On the other hand I do have other muscle cars that do much worse I just like the simplicity I guess. Nothing but points and a mechanical fuel pump make it run
    I've never posted pics anywhere of it that I know of. I've had it for more than 15 years or so. I PHS documented it as one of 293 built that year and loved racing it in pure stock a few years back. Never did join any clubs though, seems pontiacs have a small following compared to chevy, ford or mopar.

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    I have a 2001 SS The factory rating is 325hp. If you order the dual/dual quad tip exhaust option the factory rating goes up to 335hp and if you also order the cold air intake (SLP Blackwing lid) the factory rating was 345hp.
    345 was the max rating in 2002 but the base SS was 325. The WS6 had the same options available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS View Post
    When my 2002 Z28 was stock (no mods) with ~20,xxx miles it put down 306/323 on a DynoJet. Stock was advertised at 305 that year.

    The SS/WS6 and SLP cars (Camaro and Firebird) made more hp/tq due to the various mods that they swapped out for the stock parts.

    As we all know an LS1 is an LS1 is an LS1 ad infinitum. The Vette was rated higher due to better exhaust. Swap stuff around and a 4th gen can equal a Vette at the rear wheels.
    Most C5 Vettes post slightly lower hp numbers at the wheel versus a stock F-Body. The difference is about 5 hp.

    My understanding is, they are the same motor but the exhaust on the stock Vette is slightly more restrictive than the F-Body and the IRS on the Vette saps a bit of hp.

    Someone a few posts back showed a dyno for a stock 98 Vette and it was at 285. I'm thinking most pre LS6 intake F-Bodies dyno in the 290-300 range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fergyflyer View Post
    Most C5 Vettes post slightly lower hp numbers at the wheel versus a stock F-Body. The difference is about 5 hp.

    My understanding is, they are the same motor but the exhaust on the stock Vette is slightly more restrictive than the F-Body and the IRS on the Vette saps a bit of hp.

    Someone a few posts back showed a dyno for a stock 98 Vette and it was at 285. I'm thinking most pre LS6 intake F-Bodies dyno in the 290-300 range.
    i thought the exhaust was better and the irs is what sapped all the rwhp fom the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 00z28bubba View Post
    i thought the exhaust was better and the irs is what sapped all the rwhp fom the car.
    The exhaust was a huge compromise on the C5. The car was originally designed to have a spare tire and the engineers fitted the exhaust around where the soare was designed to go. So the exhaust makes a bunch of turns in the muffler area. For some reason GM never changed the design even though they went with Runflats. You can just by changing mufflers, not even the whole exhaust, pick up 10 to 15 hp by going with a straight through design. A good catback gets you 20 hp and that's exactly what they did with the stock Z06 exhaust.

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