94 Z28 VS 2010 Challenger R/T

[fbodyNATION]

I thought the 2010 dodge challenger r/t was fast but my friends 94 LT1 Z28 made that car look like a push over,i mean the challenger didnt stand a chance,the Z28 beat him really bad,i guess those old LT1s with a little mods still have a few tricks up their sleeves after all LoL!

[Smittro]

The old SBC can easily be made dangerous.

The after market and what can be done with them is nearly limitless.

Making LS power is no sweat for a good old SBC, their time had just come for GM to take their small block in a new dirrection that's all really.

The 350 had been GMs' work horse for a very, very long time. Just about anything you can name has had a 350 in it over the years past.

From Boats, motor homes, and school busses, to full blown race cars, ect.

It's nice to see the old grandpa motors lay down a hurting on the new stuff, good kill!

[slimss]

The new Challenger is a very heavy car. And the r/t isnt very quick. Even the srt 8 really isnt that quick either. So it isnt hard to believe a modded lt 1 Camaro would beat it. Especially from a dead stop. Now from a 60 mph roll it might be a different.

[fbodyNATION]

The old SBC can easily be made dangerous.

The after market and what can be done with them is nearly limitless.

Making LS power is no sweat for a good old SBC, their time had just come for GM to take their small block in a new dirrection that's all really.

The 350 had been GMs' work horse for a very, very long time. Just about anything you can name has had a 350 in it over the years past.

From Boats, motor homes, and school busses, to full blown race cars, ect.

It's nice to see the old grandpa motors lay down a hurting on the new stuff, good kill!

My old 94 LT1 T/A was a bad ass car,but my friends Z28 was always much badder,but i flipped out at a RV dealer when the guy said that the big motor home had a Chevy 350 in it,i didnt believe it,but he showed me the engine & it was indeed a small block chevy 350 V8,i never knew they were used in boats or school buses though

[Smittro]

The SBCs' main draw back then and still is today.. Cheap power..

[slimss]

The SBCs' main draw back then and still is today.. Cheap power..

Ok so is that a drawback or an advantage??????

[Firebirdjones]

Ok so is that a drawback or an advantage??????

I'm sure he meant to say advantage. That's the whole reason why the engine has lived a long productive life since 1955 and still remains very popular today.

[az gt eater]

Easy cheap choice to put power in any toy.

[2002ssslp]

I think you can do more with the LS1 then the lod school SBC.

[az gt eater]

I think you can do more with the LS1 then the lod school SBC.

But not as easily or cheaply. This actually reminds me of the first time I learned what torque was. I worked for a farmer in Minn every fall, and the first fall I asked him how much horsepower his big ass tractor put out. He told me about 350-400. I told him, he should get a Chevy 350, cause it can put that out easily, and not be any where near as big as the diesel that was in the tractor. Then, he smiled and said that it put out a lot more torque than a 350. How much more, I asked. About 1100 ft lbs. To which I had nothing to say. That was the day I learned what torque was.

[Firebirdjones]

Not really 2002ssSLP, when you take a good look at it. It's the 15 degree heads that made the introduction of the LS platform so appealing. But that technoligy was nothing new as the aftermarket had already been offering 18 degree heads for the Gen 1 SBC for many years. Shucks even AMC knew this back in the 60's and was building all their V8's with 18 degree heads from the factory.

It's that valve angle that helps these engines make power. With a similarly built gen 1 and 18 degree heads the power is right on par with same size LS engine.

If you don't want to get into the expensive 18 degree heads for a gen 1, then AFR makes a standard 23 degree head now that flows about 330 cfm right out of the box,,,that's 18 degree head territory in a 23 degree head without the fancy intakes and valvetrain/pistons required for an 18 degree head, so it's much more cost effective.

I can still build a gen 1 a whole hell of alot cheaper than any LS engine.

[Smittro]

Ok so is that a drawback or an advantage??????

I'm sure he meant to say advantage. That's the whole reason why the engine has lived a long productive life since 1955 and still remains very popular today.

Easy cheap choice to put power in any toy.

But not as easily or cheaply. This actually reminds me of the first time I learned what torque was. I worked for a farmer in Minn every fall, and the first fall I asked him how much horsepower his big ass tractor put out. He told me about 350-400. I told him, he should get a Chevy 350, cause it can put that out easily, and not be any where near as big as the diesel that was in the tractor. Then, he smiled and said that it put out a lot more torque than a 350. How much more, I asked. About 1100 ft lbs. To which I had nothing to say. That was the day I learned what torque was.

Not really 2002ssSLP, when you take a good look at it. It's the 15 degree heads that made the introduction of the LS platform so appealing. But that technoligy was nothing new as the aftermarket had already been offering 18 degree heads for the Gen 1 SBC for many years. Shucks even AMC knew this back in the 60's and was building all their V8's with 18 degree heads from the factory.

It's that valve angle that helps these engines make power. With a similarly built gen 1 and 18 degree heads the power is right on par with same size LS engine.

If you don't want to get into the expensive 18 degree heads for a gen 1, then AFR makes a standard 23 degree head now that flows about 330 cfm right out of the box,,,that's 18 degree head territory in a 23 degree head without the fancy intakes and valvetrain/pistons required for an 18 degree head, so it's much more cost effective.

I can still build a gen 1 a whole hell of alot cheaper than any LS engine.

Advantage

[Smittro]

I have a 350 4-bolt in my old motor home.. Motor home will be gone,, engine stays..XD

[Smittro]

Oh and on the bus thing.. Chevrolet used to use 305 v6s' in busses and so forth.. No typo either lol.. 305 v6.. XD

My dream engine is the DOHC LT5..lol

Last one I had seen for sale "used" was 10k for the engine alone, and you could'nt even hear it run..lol

[az gt eater]

Keith, you are right. The LS platform is better to start with, and will achieve better results with the same products. But, to achieve an established level of performance, you will not be able to do it as cheaply with the LS as with the LT. You can show us where an LS 1 is selling for 500, and you could also show us a 350 selling for pick up only. Reliability is a whole nother issue. And, that is one of the reasons why the LS is a better (not cheaper) recipe for success. I didn't mean to throw a blanket on your parade. Just to say the LT-1 has its place. And, it is still a viable option for certain applications. Which, in this case, is whooping up on a new Dodge product. Put that same engine in an identical Dodge, and we know what the outcome would be.The Lt-1's body is lighter, and as such more than holds its own.

[Firebirdjones]

No reliability issues with the Gen 1's anymore so than an LS platform.

If you are speaking of the Gen 2 LT1 then there is always that darn opti, which wasn't all that great of a design anyway,,,but in reality,,,that LT1 is a gen1 through and through,,,it just has a redesigned reverse flow cooling cylinder head (still 23 degree) which was actually patterned directly from (and is the same thing) as your gen 1 vortec heads that came out a few years earlier,,,,GM just made the setup reverse flow cooling and called it the Gen 2 LT1.

[az gt eater]

No reliability issues with the Gen 1's anymore so than an LS platform.

If you are speaking of the Gen 2 LT1 then there is always that darn opti, .

That is pretty much what I am talking about. I haven't had one, but from seeing what the other members have had problems with, this is what I was thinking of.

[Firebirdjones]

That is pretty much what I am talking about. I haven't had one, but from seeing what the other members have had problems with, this is what I was thinking of.

I've had 2 LT1's and didn't have problems with the opti on either. Our 97 LT1 we bought new, and with 120k miles it still had the original opti running fine. I had a new GM setup in the boxes along with a new water pump that I planned to change as regular maintanance but the car was totalled before I got around to it.

The real flaw with the opti that I've seen is that sealed bearing that supports the main shaft. There is no way to grease it and it doesn't use engine oil for lube so it just relies on the grease inside the sealed unit. Not to mention this thing is subject to extreme heat and rpm. Once that bearing starts to wear the main shaft wobbles,,,,and that wobbling (failure to control the rotor button properly) is what causes the high rpm misfires that are so common with the opti. I've seen this in quite a few LT1's I've worked on. It's a sign that it's time to replace the unit.

Some of them fail with 40k miles, some last more than 100K (like mine have). I think it really depends on how the car is treated. Alot of high rpm flogging of course will speed up the process And most of these cars weren't treated nicely.

[Smittro]

All I'm saying is the old SBC had it's place and it was time for GM to move into new things.

Chevrolet shot themselves in the foot with the smogger year motors.. imho

165 hp 350 was'nt making peoples day for a lot of years.. By the time of the 2nd gen LT's it was too late..imo

Then along came this little aluminum job LS motor and the rest is history. (it saved their asses)

GM is a lot of things good and bad, they've been known to go backwards as well as forwards at times..lol

Example: Everyone screams the 30+ year old 60 degree v6 is junk, and "put a L67 in it!" till someone says, "3900" for 3600 dohc" then the room gets quiet..lol

Not a v6 thread but that's exactly what they've done with their v6's.. Little bit of old and a good bit of new..

[SuperSSguy]

what does LT and LS----stand for?