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345 hp camaro???

This is a discussion on 345 hp camaro??? within the Camaro / SS forums, part of the Vehicle Specific category; Originally Posted by TLS_Addict Just a lid. Not changing manifolds. Ever price a Patriot performance kit? $1,300 bucks or so. ...

  1. #101
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    Just a lid. Not changing manifolds.



    Ever price a Patriot performance kit? $1,300 bucks or so. Are they the best? No.........but SLP for sure is not the best aftermarket company either so cost for cost its pretty close..

    What is a blackwing lid with filter and a cat back exhaust going to cost? I figure close to $1,200 just to be on the safe side.

    So say $500 for a tune on top of the $1,300 and maybe another $200 for other things. That is $2,000, if $800 is going to break you (which it might to some people, hence why they think SLP is so great) perhaps you shouldnt even own a V8 performance car. And honestly, a lot of people would have to pay to have the cat-back put on. lol
    I went to Patriots site and they only listed kits for BBC's, not LS1's. Those kits were between $2500-$3000. However, they did list heads by themselves; $1300 (CNC ported 243's). This again doesn't include cam/oil pump/timing chain/valve springs/hardened push rods.

    Magnaflow is just under $500 for their exhaust.

  2. #102
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    Its not unbelieveable......its blown out of proportion that its THAT much more power. An air pressure adjustment could net better gains than a cat-back and an intake.
    You sir, need to visit the track more often, your perception is in far left field.

  3. #103
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    Dont mistake, they are worthwhile for power if you plan to do headers/mid pipe but if not they are for sound and "allure". That stuff all works in unison but the biggest choking point are the exhaust manifolds and the mid pipe. Agreed? You can only push so much through the stock manifolds......hence why most hod-rodders dump those in favor of headers.
    Don't agree, actually that is so far from the truth. These LS manifolds aren't bad pieces. They actually do a decent job considering the constraints the factory has to work with. Especially the 01-02 manifolds, much better pieces than previous years. The 6.0 truck manifolds are even better than that. Compare this stuff to 30-40 years ago and these manifolds look like works of art.

    Excellent case in point, since I've been down this road before. After my car already had a catback and lid installed and a tune performed, The car was tested. It went from bone stock 13.70's to 13.40's I then installed long tube headers and an off road Y pipe.

    Guess how much the car picked up......a whole tenth of a second and 1 mph. 13.32 is the best it went. Not a smidget more. The tune was even "touched up". Bottom line, on my 02, the stock manifolds and Y-pipe were doing a satisfactory job on an otherwise stock engine.

    Headers just aren't going to give you a big improvement unless you supplement that with a camshaft and/or cylinder head work. The biggest thing holding these engines back is the dinky camshafts, not the manifolds.

    I can give you more examples running pure stock with my 70 formula. That class requires that you run stock manifolds (actually stock everything) No headers allowed. We are talking 40 year old technoligy here.
    They do give you some fudge room on the exhaust system, but nothing more than 2 1/2" piping and it has to be stock configuration mufflers. (In this case a single transverse muffler)
    Just pulling off the stock Walker reproduction exhaust system (2 1/4" pipe and stock transverse muffler) and switching over to a 2 1/2" flowmaster with their transverse muffer. Not changing anything else on the car it went from 14.0's to 13.60's and I never popped the hood. Mph went from 99 to 102 mph.
    So exhaust systems on their own, using manifolds, are definately a substantial improvement, works on any car. Just ask any of the pure stock guys running Mopars, Fords, even Studabakers. They all run 2 1/2" piping and a free flowing mufflers with their stock manifolds. Mufflers of choice for 90% of them are actually Dynomax Ultraflow.
    I've been around this stuff for 30 years, I can tell you countless examples of my stuff as well as customer cars, but I feel it would fall on deaf ears. Do as you wish, I'm only here to help, but don't expect to compete with the big boys.
    Last edited by Firebirdjones; 01-06-2012 at 10:33 AM.

  4. #104
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I went to Patriots site and they only listed kits for BBC's, not LS1's. Those kits were between $2500-$3000. However, they did list heads by themselves; $1300 (CNC ported 243's). This again doesn't include cam/oil pump/timing chain/valve springs/hardened push rods.

    Magnaflow is just under $500 for their exhaust.
    Exactly, you might do heads for $1300 but there is much much more to it. You are right 35th, this stuff isn't cheap and a cam/head package can easily exceed $3000 We are working on an LS engine here, not a 40 year old gen 1 SBC
    I think TLS needs to get out more

  5. #105
    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    My 81 Camaro that I used to drag raced picked up .3 simply from changing the air pressure in the tires. I drove it over 100 miles to get to the track and let it cool for about 25 minutes. My rear tire pressure was 38 freaking lbs.........I dropped it to 32 and picked up .2 then to 25 and picked up another .1.

    You are telling me that a set of drag tires wont make an LS1 pick up more than the .1 seconds and 1mph you claim that these SLP products give? You are off your rocker old man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebirdjones View Post
    Exactly, you might do heads for $1300 but there is much much more to it. You are right 35th, this stuff isn't cheap and a cam/head package can easily exceed $3000 We are working on an LS engine here, not a 40 year old gen 1 SBC
    I think TLS needs to get out more
    I get out just plenty and I am sure I have been and seen every bit as much as you so please spare me your bullshit. You said the correct word so please see the bold. A head/cam package CAN exceed $3,000. Hell it can cost $10,000 to rebuild and engine but that doesnt mean that is costs every time.

    You are starting to be seen as Sarge in the fact that you have seen it and done it all. Oh, and this isnt just me saying this. Plenty others are watching this thread and are staying out of it because they dont buy your bullshit and have first hand experience as well with SLP products.

    I have stayed away from this but its time to say it. Do you want to know the real reason why GM didnt put the SLP crap on other vehicles in the fleet such as the Corvette and the GTO? Because the F-body is a mullet machine and marketed as such. In 99% of the cases its a poor mans alternative to a Corvette. Corvette and GTO buyers (some idiots did for their GTO's and they promptly ripped it off in most cases) have more class, sophistication, and money in 99% of all cases. They dont like to buy cheap shit and in general are smarter individuals........hence the higher income and the vehicles they purchase. And before you go off about how the GTO was only 32k most people were paying close to 40k when it came out just to get one.

    Where is your spot on SpeedTV because you obviously have been there and done that with everything? Go ask the GTO boys their impression of SLP parts and see what they come back with. But I suppose you will be able to discredit everything they say as well.

    I mean you had done dyno research right? Same car with just the mods with the same exact conditions, right? Just like the track. They were the same exact conditions..........right? Was you 60' the same with both runs where you picked up a few tenths of a seconds? I doubt that. Lets see the slips because most every test ever shows the Z28 and the SS in a dead heat to 60 mph and then the SS walks away.

    And you tuned a car from its factory tune and picked up .3 with a few little mods? 90% of that if not more is due to the tune of the car, not your Pep-Boys car parts you threw at it.

    The other reason your 01-02s make more power is the upgraded LS6 intake. Remember, as you say its an air pump and the intake on the 01-02 flows better than the 97-2000 so thus it WOULD make more power if you were able to get the air out better and faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I went to Patriots site and they only listed kits for BBC's, not LS1's. Those kits were between $2500-$3000. However, they did list heads by themselves; $1300 (CNC ported 243's). This again doesn't include cam/oil pump/timing chain/valve springs/hardened push rods.

    Magnaflow is just under $500 for their exhaust.
    We are talking SLP not Magnaflow. How much is an SLP cat back?

    At one time Patriot DID offer them because I was debating on buying them or going with a set of 243s and I ended up buying 243 heads for my GTO. Also, you didnt even pick the most economical 243 heads that they purchase and re-do. Hell, the guys on the GTO site are using just 1.8 rockers, tuning the car and getting 17+ rwhp. That far more than the SLP stuff gives but then again WTF do other peoples test show, right?

    You guys can all go on thinking how great SLP products are. Better than stock? Sure.........but marginal at best.

  6. #106
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    We are talking SLP not Magnaflow. How much is an SLP cat back?
    $429 brand new from SLP. Cheaper than the Magnaflow.

  7. #107
    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    Just want to say sorry for the language and if I came across as a d!ck. Its just my nature.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    Just want to say sorry for the language and if I came across as a d!ck. Its just my nature.
    Apology accepted!!!!!

  9. #109
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    It seems to me TLS that you have this affliction against SLP more than anything else and you are basing that on your decision making here.
    Fact of the matter is, the optional SLP catbacks I speak of aren't available over the counter, these were optioned on SS and Firehawk only. They aren't available anymore since the cars have been long since discontinued, so you can't price compare anymore. But I can tell you they worked just as well as any other 3" catback on the market, we tested 7-8 various systems about 6-7 years ago and found similar results with all of them. Just about any decent 3" catback will run you $500. If you want to see more improvement then increase the I-pipe size to 4".
    The lids fall into the same boat. A lid is a lid whether it's made by SLP or MTE etc...they all produce the same end result. There isn't one that flows any better than the other.

    All my testing had been done on the same dyno, and track conditions (namely DA being the most important) was recorded and accounted for Hell that's just track 101 there buddy. If you don't keep tabs on that stuff then you may as well not go.

  10. #110
    Moderator Firebirdjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TLS_Addict View Post
    My 81 Camaro that I used to drag raced picked up .3 simply from changing the air pressure in the tires. I drove it over 100 miles to get to the track and let it cool for about 25 minutes. My rear tire pressure was 38 freaking lbs.........I dropped it to 32 and picked up .2 then to 25 and picked up another .1.

    You are telling me that a set of drag tires wont make an LS1 pick up more than the .1 seconds and 1mph you claim that these SLP products give? You are off your rocker old man.



    You are starting to be seen as Sarge in the fact that you have seen it and done it all. Oh, and this isnt just me saying this. Plenty others are watching this thread and are staying out of it because they dont buy your bullshit and have first hand experience as well with SLP products.

    I have stayed away from this but its time to say it. Do you want to know the real reason why GM didnt put the SLP crap on other vehicles in the fleet such as the Corvette and the GTO? Because the F-body is a mullet machine and marketed as such. In 99% of the cases its a poor mans alternative to a Corvette. Corvette and GTO buyers (some idiots did for their GTO's and they promptly ripped it off in most cases) have more class, sophistication, and money in 99% of all cases. They dont like to buy cheap shit and in general are smarter individuals........hence the higher income and the vehicles they purchase. And before you go off about how the GTO was only 32k most people were paying close to 40k when it came out just to get one.

    Lets see the slips because most every test ever shows the Z28 and the SS in a dead heat to 60 mph and then the SS walks away.

    And you tuned a car from its factory tune and picked up .3 with a few little mods? 90% of that if not more is due to the tune of the car, not your Pep-Boys car parts you threw at it.

    The other reason your 01-02s make more power is the upgraded LS6 intake. Remember, as you say its an air pump and the intake on the 01-02 flows better than the 97-2000 so thus it WOULD make more power if you were able to get the air out better and faster.
    .
    Lets see if I can help you here....

    No one said anything about sticky tires, that's not even part of the thread, where are you going? Where did I mention drag tires?

    I don't care how I'm seen here, call me what you want. I don't give a rats ass what people think, I'm not here to win bonus points, just helping others. Like I said, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make em' drink it.....

    Um,,,,my SS stickered close to 40K as well, what's your point? It was never considered a mullet machine until rednecks got involved, you watch too much Jeff Foxworthy. They were designed for the pony wars to compete against the mustang, a compact performance car. Completely different market than the vette. That's comparing apples to oranges.

    This next one cracks me up now.....you just said the SS and Z are tied to 60 and then the SS walks away? Wow after 2 pages of crap talk it finally comes out? I'm shocked. Any reason for this?

    On the tuning, the car was already tuned and tested before the parts installation, so that had nothing to do with the gains. That difference was headers only, a whopping tenth (not 3, go back and read it), nothing to get excited about.

    Yes air pump, yes LS6 intake. But you (as many seem to do) forget the 01-02's also had the tiny truck camshaft of about .470 lift. Remember, air in air out The intake is a wash.

    Lets keep it real.....

  11. #111
    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    First year Corvette had the smalles LS1 camshaft.........lol

    Also 241s DO outflow (minor but you say every little bit helps ) the 853s. I said tires was better than SLP products, you said no..........pretty simple.

    F-bodies are seen as red neck mullet machines. Sorry, but they are. I love them to death I really do but that is what most people I know of think of when they hear that. That comes from people all over the globe as well as regular hill-billy folks.

  12. #112
    Senior Member TLS_Addict's Avatar
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    My point was it was the magazine article pointing that the SS was faster after 60 mph. I didnt say its right because NEVER DID THEY MENTION DA OR TRACK CONDITIONS. Reason being? Because its a bunch of crap to test a car from one day to a car on another day. Its like saying one car makes 305hp on a dyno and another makes 288 on another. Does that mean the one makes 17 more hp? No........different conditions all together and dyno's read differently.

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