Will the recalls ever end?

**LSCyaL8R** · 03-02-2010, 06:21 AM

So GM is recalling 1.3 million cars made between 2005-2010. affected models are the Cobalt and G5. The Electric Power Assisted Steering - EPAS is failing and leaving drivers with no power steering assist.....

Call me crazy but did nobody see that coming??? I mean on a hydraulic system there are warning signs... slight increase in effort, whining pump, leaking fluid.... all signs that SOON you will need to replace that pump.

In an electric system I'm sure the electric motor just one day decides "yup.... I'm done with this" and BOOM no power steering....

Now to a normal person it ruins your day and makes your wallet a little lighter. Apparently to the rest of the world it means OMG I'M GONNA CRASH AND BURN AND DIE!!!!!

Now I've actually had a power steering pump fail, a brand new one at that, on a 1992 Lincoln Mark VII. That's a big heavy car and when it failed did I freak? No.... I finished what I had to do, drove home and replaced the pump.... again....

My point is.... does a failing power steering motor warrant a recall? Do people really expect these things to last forever?

**third_shift|studios** · 03-02-2010, 06:23 AM

electric pump??? someone explain that to me...

**86 IROC-Z** · 03-02-2010, 06:31 AM

Will the recalls ever end?

No.

There will always be defects in manufactured products.

Some of these defects will be a big enough detriment to the product that it will be in the best interest of the company's reputation/customerbase/livelihood/lawyersfees/insurancepremiums etc to issue a recall.

**86 IROC-Z** · 03-02-2010, 06:33 AM

Also, lol@ freaking out over no power steering.

I think the general population should be required to go through a year or so of hard labor at an early point in their life, so when minor modern comforts fail them, they can still function as a normal human being and deal with it.

**ibanez7** · 03-02-2010, 06:43 AM

this recall is not a surprise....

the intermediate shaft, keeps failing on my 2007 trailblazer.... making the steering feel like shit.. plus wiht only 46,xxx miles, the damn tie rod ends are shot. WTF.....

**DIRTY JERZY** · 03-02-2010, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z

Also, lol@ freaking out over no power steering.

I think the general population should be required to go through a year or so of hard labor at an early point in their life, so when minor modern comforts fail them, they can still function as a normal human being and deal with it.

I agree people need to learn to drive in cars with no power anything and four wheel drum brakes. it would make for better drivers

**Y2KPewterSS** · 03-02-2010, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by 86 IROC-Z

Also, lol@ freaking out over no power steering.

I think the general population should be required to go through a year or so of hard labor at an early point in their life, so when minor modern comforts fail them, they can still function as a normal human being and deal with it.

I was gonna call you out and say you were too young to remember cars without power steering, but then I remembered the Iroc, my apologies.

**LSCyaL8R** · 03-02-2010, 06:54 AM

Seriously.... No power steering is no big deal. I'm sure the cars having the problem are 2005 models with high mileage. Of course the power steering is going to fail. If it were a regular engine driven hydraulic pump nobody would say a word. They would just replace the part and go on with their lives. Since this is new tech it must be the techs fault and GM must pay the price!!!

for TSS from wiki:

Electric power steering (EPS or EPAS) is designed to use an electric motor to reduce effort by providing steering assist to the driver of a vehicle. Sensors detect the motion and torque of the steering column, and a computer module applies assistive torque via an electric motor coupled directly to either the steering gear or steering column. This allows varying amounts of assistance to be applied depending on driving conditions. The system allows engineers to tailor steering-gear response to variable-rate and variable-damping suspension systems achieving an ideal blend of ride, handling, and steering for each vehicle.[5] On Fiat group cars the amount of assistance can be regulated using a button named "CITY" that switches between two different assist curves, while most other EPS systems have variable assist, which allows for more assistance as the speed of a vehicle decreases and less assistance from the system during high-speed situations. In the event of component failure, a mechanical linkage such as a rack and pinion serves as a back-up in a manner similar to that of hydraulic systems. Electric power steering should not be confused with drive-by-wire or steer-by-wire systems which use electric motors for steering, but without any mechanical linkage to the steering wheel.
Electric systems have a slight advantage in fuel efficiency because there is no belt-driven hydraulic pump constantly running, whether assistance is required or not, and this is a major reason for their introduction. Another major advantage is the elimination of a belt-driven engine accessory, and several high-pressure hydraulic hoses between the hydraulic pump, mounted on the engine, and the steering gear, mounted on the chassis. This greatly simplifies manufacturing and maintenance. By incorporating electronic stability control electric power steering systems can instantly vary torque assist levels to aid the driver in evasive manoeuvres.
The peak power output of the electrical system of a vehicle limits the capability of electric steering assist. A 12-volt electrical system, for example, is limited to about 80 amps of current[citation needed] which, in turn, limits the size of the motor to less than 1 kilowatt (12.5 volts times 80 amps equals 1000 watts). This amount of power would be adequate for smaller vehicles. It would probably be considered insufficient for larger vehicles such as trucks and SUVs. There are other types of electrical systems such as the 24-volt electrical system and other variants used for hybrid and electric vehicles. These have greater capacity that enable use of multi kilowatt motors needed for large and mid-size vehicles.
The first electric power steering systems appeared on the Honda NSX in 1990, the Honda S2000 in 1999, and on the BMW Z4[6] in 2002. Today a number of manufacturers use electric power steering.
Reviews in the automotive press often comment that certain steering systems with electric assist do not have a satisfactory amount of "road feel". Road feel refers to the relationship between the force needed to steer the vehicle and the force that the driver exerts on the steering wheel. Road feel gives the driver the subjective perception that they are engaged in steering the vehicle. The amount of road feel is controlled by the computer module that operates the electric power steering system. In theory, the software should be able to adjust the amount of road feel to satisfy drivers. In practice, it has been difficult to reconcile various design constraints while producing a more pronounced road feel[citation needed]. It should be noted that the same argument has been applied to hydraulic power steering as well.

**86 IROC-Z** · 03-02-2010, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Y2KPewterSS

I was gonna call you out and say you were too young to remember cars without power steering, but then I remembered the Iroc, my apologies.

The Iroc actually has power steering (Surprisingly it was pretty loaded, almost every power option I think), but I have steered it while pushing it a lot of times, so that counts right?

But on a serious note I have had experience with non-power steering equipped cars. My first time in one was actually in England when I was 16 years old, I went from a late-model-year automatic American car with power steering, to an old, tiny, English car with a manual transmission and no power steering. That went really well

**Mr. Luos** · 03-02-2010, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R

EPAS is failing and leaving drivers with no power steering assist.....

Sounds like a plus to me.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 03-02-2010, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by ibanez7

this recall is not a surprise....

the intermediate shaft, keeps failing on my 2007 trailblazer.... making the steering feel like shit.. plus wiht only 46,xxx miles, the damn tie rod ends are shot. WTF.....

I believe they had to replace the steering column twice in our '04
burb with 20k miles. Still wasn't right. Made in Mexico!

**redbird555** · 03-02-2010, 07:40 AM

I actually kin of enjoy driving my old 66 stang around with no power steering or brakes. Aside from getting out of parking spots the no power steering is actually smoother going down the road. The lack of brakes just teach me to appreciate modern conviences but ya i agree people should learn then other way I kno it helped me to be a better driver, and appreciate modern conviences.

**LSCyaL8R** · 03-02-2010, 07:48 AM

yeah.... like I always drove automatic cars. My first time driving was a 1965 Impala SS with an L82 sporting a rochester 4bbl, dynomax exhaust and a powerglide trans.... power steering power drum brakes.... that old thing even had power windows!!!!

Now that both my cars have a manual trans I actually feel awkward driving anything else. I can assume I'd feel much the same way if I were used to manual steering or non power assist brakes.

and yes I do believe that learning stick has made me a better driver. lol

**SHines-IT** · 03-02-2010, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by redbird555

I actually kin of enjoy driving my old 66 stang around with no power steering or brakes. Aside from getting out of parking spots the no power steering is actually smoother going down the road. The lack of brakes just teach me to appreciate modern conviences but ya i agree people should learn then other way I kno it helped me to be a better driver, and appreciate modern conviences.

Yep.

**wheeliE-maxx** · 03-02-2010, 09:02 AM

Speaking of recalls my mom mentioned seeing a bright blue rc/sb tundra and that she really liked it, and that I should get one. So I said you really want to get rid of me huh

she forgot about that part

**67CamaroRSSS** · 03-02-2010, 09:55 AM

I once let one of my sisters borrow a 72 Nova (my ex-wife's car but she was back east visiting at the time) while I worked on her car. It had power steering but manual drum brakes. She drove it away but brought it right back and said that the brakes didn't work. She'd never driven a car that didn't have power brakes.

**justinmc978** · 03-02-2010, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by LSCyaL8R

Call me crazy but did nobody see that coming??? I mean on a hydraulic system there are warning signs... slight increase in effort, whining pump, leaking fluid.... all signs that SOON you will need to replace that pump.

In an electric system I'm sure the electric motor just one day decides "yup.... I'm done with this" and BOOM no power steering....

Now to a normal person it ruins your day and makes your wallet a little lighter. Apparently to the rest of the world it means OMG I'M GONNA CRASH AND BURN AND DIE!!!!!

think about who owns cobalts and g5's...

ill give you a hint, they are often in the market for slugbugs and convertible v6 mustangs.

**DIRTY JERZY** · 03-02-2010, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by 67CamaroRSSS

I once let one of my sisters borrow a 72 Nova (my ex-wife's car but she was back east visiting at the time) while I worked on her car. It had power steering but manual drum brakes. She drove it away but brought it right back and said that the brakes didn't work. She'd never driven a car that didn't have power brakes.

Thats what I'm talking about. If you have to plan your moves you will become a better driver.

**bluefields88** · 03-02-2010, 01:00 PM

my first car had manual steering and brakes, I liked it. We also had a 68 Mustang that had manual drums. That thing didn't stop for shit. haha

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 03-02-2010, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by third_shift|studios

electric pump??? someone explain that to me...

Instead of a belt driven hydraulic pump under the hood there's an soda can sized electric motor attached to the steering column. Driving one sort of feels like the old arcade driving games...has a fake resistance feel to it. Fords going this route in the 2011 stangs.

Originally Posted by justinmc978

think about who owns cobalts and g5's...

ill give you a hint, they are often in the market for slugbugs and convertible v6 mustangs.