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Meziere Electric Water Pump

This is a discussion on Meziere Electric Water Pump within the Parts Review forums, part of the Sponsors Group Pricing and Parts Review category; Originally Posted by Frost No, this is not true, at cruise a mechanical pump is more load. It's not measurable ...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    No, this is not true, at cruise a mechanical pump is more load. It's not measurable even at idle though (the electric's load), or compensation would have to be made to airflow tables (more!) and other tables to get cars to idle. If you pulley up on a SC, the extra load at idle requires tuning, an EWP does not.
    !? That is impossible. The electric pump is a steady state device. It moves a fixed amount of volume but must move enough fluid to cool the engine at WOT meaning it's taking more energy to drive at idle and part throttle then the mechanical at idle.

    Your comparison of an SC, which takes 50-200hp to drive depending on boost and style of supercharger, is completely different then changing the water pump which may draw a few horsepower from the alternator. (which is already calibrated for in the PCM)

  2. #62
    Member jcws6's Avatar
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    To add my vote - when I bought my WS6, it had a Meziere pump installed. I've personally put on around 15,000 miles over the past 2 years, with no problems with the pump so far. The car sees DD duty about 6 months out of the year.

  3. #63
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    !? That is impossible. The electric pump is a steady state device. It moves a fixed amount of volume but must move enough fluid to cool the engine at WOT meaning it's taking more energy to drive at idle and part throttle then the mechanical at idle.

    Your comparison of an SC, which takes 50-200hp to drive depending on boost and style of supercharger, is completely different then changing the water pump which may draw a few horsepower from the alternator. (which is already calibrated for in the PCM)


    It's not impossible at all, if you've actually worked with these pumps you would see what I am talking about. I'm not talking about a spun up SC, of course that takes a lot of power. I'm talking about taking a tuned SC'd car and upping the pulley and seeing the difference it makes AT IDLE WHILE IT IT IS IN FULL BYPASS. Do you know what full bypass means? Do you think that a SC takes 50+ HP to drive at IDLE IN FULL BYPASS? If not, why would you possibly think it's an OK comparison?

    The EWP isn't a "steady-state" device, it's an unmanaged, uncontrolled electric motor.

    Look, you can argue your "theories" all you'd like. The real world shows that none of what you are posting is an issue, so clearly there is a hole in your theory.

    And FWIW, alternator load is only compensated for in a STOCK car, not one with an aftermarket cam that weakens idle. Why do you think that A/C gives untuned cammed cars a fit? If this pump produced so much load, it would show up, BUT IT DOESN'T.

    Readers make up your own minds here, I'm done with this thread.

    -Steve

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It's not impossible at all, if you've actually worked with these pumps you would see what I am talking about. I'm not talking about a spun up SC, of course that takes a lot of power. I'm talking about taking a tuned SC'd car and upping the pulley and seeing the difference it makes AT IDLE WHILE IT IT IS IN FULL BYPASS. Do you know what full bypass means? Do you think that a SC takes 50+ HP to drive at IDLE IN FULL BYPASS? If not, why would you possibly think it's an OK comparison?

    The EWP isn't a "steady-state" device, it's an unmanaged, uncontrolled electric motor.

    Look, you can argue your "theories" all you'd like. The real world shows that none of what you are posting is an issue, so clearly there is a hole in your theory.

    And FWIW, alternator load is only compensated for in a STOCK car, not one with an aftermarket cam that weakens idle. Why do you think that A/C gives untuned cammed cars a fit? If this pump produced so much load, it would show up, BUT IT DOESN'T.

    Readers make up your own minds here, I'm done with this thread.

    -Steve

    Steve-

    i am in agreement with you and so is the shop that has done work/tuning on my car. when i told them i was going to be coming to them in AUG w/ both an U/D pulley (going w/ASP) and an EWP, they said I would be very pleased with not only how it will help keep the car running cool, but that i too would be pleased with an increase in performance. however they said they could not give me an accurate number in what gains i might possibly see, but in the long run if the car runs cooler across the board in the hot TX heat then it's worth it. would gains be nice, you bet, but cooling the car is more important to me...

    once i get the parts around, i'll post up how my car took to both mods, both cooling wise and performance wise...

  5. #65
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    So if I turn off the radio/lights reducing electrical load I will gain HP? OK


    Mechanical pumps cause the coolant to cavitate at high RPM... Cavitating is a major problem with the revlimiter raised. Stock pump is designed for a specific RPM range only. We have the crossover tubes to combat the bubbles formed by cavitation but I don't like the idea of pumping bubbles/steam into the coolant lines at 6800 RPM just when I need max cooling.. Go Electric.
    http://www.usmotorworks.com/pdf/WHY_PUMPS_FAIL.pdf
    Last edited by CitationZ06; 08-03-2008 at 08:00 PM.

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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
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    ASP U/D pulley and EWP (55gal, 12v) have been ordered. I'm in the process of shopping for 42 lb/hr injectors. Install of parts will be end of Aug/early Sept. Retune of course will follow with new dyno #'s (any power increase or not)...

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    ASP U/D pulley and EWP (55gal, 12v) have been ordered. I'm in the process of shopping for 42 lb/hr injectors. Install of parts will be end of Aug/early Sept. Retune of course will follow with new dyno #'s (any power increase or not)...
    http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

    http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

    http://www.injector.com/fuelinjectors.php

    http://www.americanmuscle.com/venom-...injectors.html

    http://www.streetsideauto.com/produc...er=M-9593-F302
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

  8. #68
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    Thanks. I was looking at Lucas or the Ford Green Tops. I guess I have more options now!!!

    do i need low impedence or high impedence...?

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSwt00SS View Post
    Thanks. I was looking at Lucas or the Ford Green Tops. I guess I have more options now!!!

    do i need low impedence or high impedence...?
    High.
    The low ohm's are for after market engine management.

    Alot of people swear by the FORD injectors being the best. We use them in about everything.

    No problem glad to help.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    High.
    The low ohm's are for after market engine management.

    Alot of people swear by the FORD injectors being the best. We use them in about everything.

    No problem glad to help.
    I appreciate it. I honestly had no clue there was a difference. Whenever, I'm not sure, I read and ask. Never hurts

    I've heard good things about both Lucas and Ford. The price difference is something being taken into account as well...

  11. #71
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    my stock water pump just went at 75k

  12. #72
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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
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    Firday everything is gonna be installed (great way to start my 11 day vacation) and then I head to the dyno for a retune...

    EWP, ASP U/D Pulley and Lucas 42lb/hr High Impedence injectors. Thanks to all for their input and taking the time to answer my questions...

  13. #73
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Let up know your numbers man. I am really considering a EWP so I can be a complete bolt on.

  14. #74
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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
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    i plan to post, gains or not...

  15. #75
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    Sweet

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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
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    here are a couple pics. RPM has the pulley since I dont have the tools to do the install...



  17. #77
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Can't wait to see the power numbers. Wish it was just EWP since I won't be doing injectors and have everything else but that. But beggers can't be choosers

  18. #78
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackSS01 View Post
    Can't wait to see the power numbers. Wish it was just EWP since I won't be doing injectors and have everything else but that. But beggers can't be choosers
    It's not like the car will make more or less HP with different injectors... the pulley will help though

  19. #79
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    '12 Silver SS 1SS
    '00 Black SS #8617

    Installed a Meizere Electric Water Pump (WP319 in Black), Powerbond U/D Pulley, and Lucas 42lb/hr High Impedence injectors and retune...

    Other mods include:

    SLP Lid
    SLP Bellow
    FAST 90/90 (ported)
    Patriot Stage II Ls6 Style heads 59cc (2.02"int/1.57"ext)
    Comp 224/224 .581/.581 112LSA
    Ls6 Oil Pump (ported & shimmed)
    Ls2 Timing Chain
    LT's w/TSP TD's w/dual SLP LM resonators

    !AIR Delete
    !EGR Delete

    HP Tune

    Stock 10-bolt/gears...M6

    Since most people care to see results comparing apples to apples, I went back to the same shop that installed the FAST 90/90 last August (2007) and retuned the car. These results are off the same dyno. I will let you decide for yourself the gains to be had. Take the difference from the FAST 90/90 or from the dyno day and draw your own conclusion...

    First are the results from last years FAST 90/90 install and retune: 444/395



    Second, here are the numbers from a dyno day they did last December 2007. Yes the date is incorrect. It's not from 2004. Look at the Run # file. Car is also running PIG RICH...thanks: 437/404



    Finally, here are the numbers from the retune today: 458/410






    So, it's all in how you want to look at it. The car gained 14rwhp/15rwtq going off the FAST 90/90 when it's know the car was tuned...

    OR

    The car gained 21rwhp/6rwtq going off the Dyno Day results when that shows the car clearly running RICH...

    The old numbers that I used (until now) were from a Dyno Day this past March, but were from a different shop. Those numbers were 443/402 running rich as well...

    So again, if you wanted to go off those numbers, the car gained 15rwhp/8rwtq...

    I have provided you all with the best information that I can for you to draw your own results as to just how much these parts helped out my car. Apples to apples same dyno used, same shop doing the retune, etc...

    Yes I am happy w/the gain in power, but I'm really pleased at how quick the car revs and the fact its stays at a nice cool 172° now...

    Personally, I prefer to go with the results from the FAST 90/90 install/retune since I know at the time, the car was running at it's best. Just like this time around, the car today was retuned for optimum performance. So I personally am happy w/an increase of 14rwhp/15rwtq gain...

  20. #80
    I don't sell out! blackSS01's Avatar
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    Nice, congrats on the numbers, thats a healthy car. Thanks for the follow up.

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