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Meziere Electric Water Pump

This is a discussion on Meziere Electric Water Pump within the Parts Review forums, part of the Sponsors Group Pricing and Parts Review category; IN MY OPINION, I think you should run at least a 160 t-state no matter what. i rebuild smaller engines ...

  1. #41
    Member silverz28camaro's Avatar
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    IN MY OPINION, I think you should run at least a 160 t-state no matter what. i rebuild smaller engines and have dealt wit ha few that were ran in the winter that had stuck open t-stats. what happened is that the piston expanded but the cylinder didn't from the cooler coolant and the piston seized in its bore. this prolly wouldn't of happend in the summer but in the winter it sure will.
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    Has anybody ever thought about this. It takes electrical energy to drive a pump. Whether I'm driving a pump off the alternator or the belt it should theoretically take more energy to electrically drive the pump then off a belt. The only reason electric fans are used these days is because they don't run 100% of the time.

    That being said, I'd use an electric water pump on a race car with no alternator and a fully charged battery.

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    Member silverz28camaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    Has anybody ever thought about this. It takes electrical energy to drive a pump. Whether I'm driving a pump off the alternator or the belt it should theoretically take more energy to electrically drive the pump then off a belt. The only reason electric fans are used these days is because they don't run 100% of the time.

    That being said, I'd use an electric water pump on a race car with no alternator and a fully charged battery.
    Most alt. today generate more than enough power. That being said, you can add the elec. water pump without creating more drain on the alt. With the elec. pump you are spinning the impeller at a constant rate as if the belt were to spin it at 2,800 rpm or so. so when the motor now turns 6,000rpm it doesn't have to spin the pump to 6,000. Thats where you are getting to power from, between 3,000 to 6,000 rpm, and from the elec. pump spinning faster at idle than the belt would it will keep the motor cooler and more consistent especially if you already have an under drive pulley. and the underdrive pulley helps get leverage on that alt, therefore allowing the motor to rev quicker(which is what people normally notice).

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverz28camaro View Post
    Most alt. today generate more than enough power. That being said, you can add the elec. water pump without creating more drain on the alt. With the elec. pump you are spinning the impeller at a constant rate as if the belt were to spin it at 2,800 rpm or so. so when the motor now turns 6,000rpm it doesn't have to spin the pump to 6,000. Thats where you are getting to power from, between 3,000 to 6,000 rpm, and from the elec. pump spinning faster at idle than the belt would it will keep the motor cooler and more consistent especially if you already have an under drive pulley. and the underdrive pulley helps get leverage on that alt, therefore allowing the motor to rev quicker(which is what people normally notice).
    That can't be. The more load that is demanded from the alternator the harder it is to turn. It doesn't always generate ie 120amps, 160amps or 200amps. When you upgrade to a 200amp alternator it doesn't always generate 200amps, it just means the alternator is capable of 200amps.

    That being said, if I add a load to the battery the alternator needs to pick up the slack to maintain the charge. The more load that is on the alternator the harder it is to spin. This is why race cars eliminate all non-essential electronics in the racers, it takes up horsepower.

    Nothing is for free when your talking about driving electrical devices.

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    Member silverz28camaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    That can't be. The more load that is demanded from the alternator the harder it is to turn. It doesn't always generate ie 120amps, 160amps or 200amps. When you upgrade to a 200amp alternator it doesn't always generate 200amps, it just means the alternator is capable of 200amps.

    That being said, if I add a load to the battery the alternator needs to pick up the slack to maintain the charge. The more load that is on the alternator the harder it is to spin. This is why race cars eliminate all non-essential electronics in the racers, it takes up horsepower.

    Nothing is for free when your talking about driving electrical devices.
    I'm not sayin that the alt. doesn't take up power, but the 6-8 amps you add with the elec. water pump may only drain another 1 hp from the alt. And the removal of the mechanical water pump frees up Up to five hp, So the gain out weighs the loss.

    Think of a supercharger, you will use about 10hp to turn it but you can gain 100hp so there again the gain out weighs the loss.

    The elec. pump is just a more efficient way of using energy. And the reason manufacturers don't use them from the factory is due to cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverz28camaro View Post
    I'm not sayin that the alt. doesn't take up power, but the 6-8 amps you add with the elec. water pump may only drain another 1 hp from the alt. And the removal of the mechanical water pump frees up Up to five hp, So the gain out weighs the loss.

    Think of a supercharger, you will use about 10hp to turn it but you can gain 100hp so there again the gain out weighs the loss.

    The elec. pump is just a more efficient way of using energy. And the reason manufacturers don't use them from the factory is due to cost.
    I don't think I agree with that. A supercharger works because your ramming air down the engines throat.

    When converting energy there is always loss. If I'm trying to do the same amount of work as the mechanical pump. I need to drive an alternator(losses), to charge a battery(more losses), and then power an electric motor(more losses) you have lost more then you gained.

    Nomatter how you look at it if it takes 5hp to drive a pump for the volume of fluids you require you still need to provide 5hp worth of electrical energy to do the same work. The only way it would be worth while is if you had a fully charged battery for a race so that the alternator isn't being loaded, or if you had an optimized impeller to reduce drive losses.

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    Senior Member Bottesini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    I don't think I agree with that. A supercharger works because your ramming air down the engines throat.

    When converting energy there is always loss. If I'm trying to do the same amount of work as the mechanical pump. I need to drive an alternator(losses), to charge a battery(more losses), and then power an electric motor(more losses) you have lost more then you gained.

    Nomatter how you look at it if it takes 5hp to drive a pump for the volume of fluids you require you still need to provide 5hp worth of electrical energy to do the same work. The only way it would be worth while is if you had a fully charged battery for a race so that the alternator isn't being loaded, or if you had an optimized impeller to reduce drive losses.
    This would be very true, if an electrical motor is the same efficiency as the original system. Electrical motors are actually very efficient especially compared to an internal combustion engine. While there is more drain to the electrical system it does not take as much energy from the motor compared to overcoming the extra inertia of the water pump and the energy required for the pump to do work.

    I will put in a disclaimer in this however, I do not have and personal test, or plan on putting this pump to the test (still a little weary since my car gets to many running hours to make me feel safe about it). It is fairly well documented though that the Miezere does help free up more power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
    It is fairly well documented though that the Miezere does help free up more power.
    According to whom? It would be interesting to see what happens after an extended run, rather then a back to back, when the battery power starts draining.


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    Member silverz28camaro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    According to whom? It would be interesting to see what happens after an extended run, rather then a back to back, when the battery power starts draining.

    According to these guys.

    http://www.ls1howto.com/howto/fbody/...pics/_dyno.jpg

    the new elec. pump will runs as if the mechanical pump is running at 2800-3000 rpms(hints no gain on dyno) as the alt. is at a break even power drain as the elec pump.

    Now above 3,000 you are spinning the mechanical pump more you need to, which in return you are using more hp.

    the elec. pump will use the same hp as the mechanical one AT 3,000. But after that the elec. pump stays the same rpm in return not using unnecessary hp......and that is your gain.

    And as far as you running your battery low.......unless you have a big stereo system and am at idle for half an hour i wouldn't put that into effect.

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    Hmm I see what your saying. I wonder how slow you could turn the water pump and get away with it at idle.

    I also wonder, on a road race vehicle, if there would be any issues at maintained wide open throttle at a fixed pump rpm.

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    How long do you think a stock water pump will last

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTY JERZY View Post
    How long do you think a stock water pump will last
    that's impossible to say. any mechanical or electrical component can fail at anytime without signs/notice. it can crap out sooner than it should or last longer than it's said in a book or on the packaging. really all you're doing when working on a car is preventitive maintainance (outside of modding of course). you take precautions to make sure that no component never fails prematurely or causes any other damage...

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    Last night my stock pump started leaking at 651xx miles it is 8 years old but I was thinking upgrade to electric but I have herd mixed responces how much will a stock pump cost I think the electric is 600 plus

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTY JERZY View Post
    Last night my stock pump started leaking at 651xx miles it is 8 years old but I was thinking upgrade to electric but I have herd mixed responces how much will a stock pump cost I think the electric is 600 plus
    i have found it for cheaper than that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    According to whom? It would be interesting to see what happens after an extended run, rather then a back to back, when the battery power starts draining.

    Your physics model is incomplete, the pumps make their gains up top, in the area you hang out in while racing, and move more coolant at cruise which is beneficial to a street car as well. They would be nicer (though more costly) if built around a brushless motor (stronger and last MUCH longer) but they are what they are.

    As I mentioned before, I know of literally dozens of these running on cars for years now without issue, but to each his own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Your physics model is incomplete, the pumps make their gains up top, in the area you hang out in while racing, and move more coolant at cruise which is beneficial to a street car as well. They would be nicer (though more costly) if built around a brushless motor (stronger and last MUCH longer) but they are what they are.

    As I mentioned before, I know of literally dozens of these running on cars for years now without issue, but to each his own.

    I see what your saying, it is moving more fluid then it needs to at idle and not as much as the mechanical at WOT. If it's pulling power at cruise and idle your killing part throttle performance and mileage but you make power up high in the band because there is less power draw.

    All this being said, I agree a brushless motor would be great. Also, a brushless motor controller would be SWEET! If you could tap into say an ignition wire and alter the speed of the motor on the fly.

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    I am thinking about going with this pump in the next couple of weeks and was wandering what does it cost to replace the electric motor should it go bad ?

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    I was told that the electric motor can be picked up for around $45-$65 dollars and is a plug and play app. Takes hardly no time to do. Electric FTW!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by punisherTA View Post
    I see what your saying, it is moving more fluid then it needs to at idle and not as much as the mechanical at WOT. If it's pulling power at cruise and idle your killing part throttle performance and mileage but you make power up high in the band because there is less power draw.
    .......

    No, this is not true, at cruise a mechanical pump is more load. It's not measurable even at idle though (the electric's load), or compensation would have to be made to airflow tables (more!) and other tables to get cars to idle. If you pulley up on a SC, the extra load at idle requires tuning, an EWP does not.

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    I had one on my 4.3L V6 and it kept it super cool with a 170F stat. Ran fine. Only went with Meziere due to the stock pump going out. I personally wouldn't change to one until the stock unit went out.

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