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What engine upgrades are needed for Procharger...

This is a discussion on What engine upgrades are needed for Procharger... within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; ok so what is the difference between a turbo charger and a super charger? and what is better to combine ...

  1. #41
    i f*****g hate rice adam0321's Avatar
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    ok so what is the difference between a turbo charger and a super charger? and what is better to combine with heads/cam package and poss no2

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    i just got an 05 c6 vette i got long tube headers and im wanting to put a ati procharger on it with 6psi,will the stock bottom end handle this?and what kind rwhp numbers do you think this will make thanks guys

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    Quote Originally Posted by chad35 View Post
    i just got an 05 c6 vette i got long tube headers and im wanting to put a ati procharger on it with 6psi,will the stock bottom end handle this?and what kind rwhp numbers do you think this will make thanks guys
    It really depends on your driving habits. But in general yes it will be fine.

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    Junior Member camarossowner's Avatar
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    My 2002 ss camaro has a ati- procharger P-1sc on it with 7 psi using a 3.2 pulley to keep me at full 7 psi on a stock motor with over 30000 miles. no motor issues as of yet. I did add long tube headers with complete 3 inch cat less exhaust to a spin tech muffler and have over 500 horses to the rear tires. But, i do use the high end motor oil and change engine oil every 3000 miles and change out the sc oil every 6000 miles too.

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    Are you using the stock ATI air filter? I switched mine for a larger filter and picked up 2 psi. I have a D1SC so I'm not familar with P1 but with a 3.2 inch pulley I would expect a few more psi. With the bigger filter you have less restriction and less drag on the motor.

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    Junior Member camarossowner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaticano View Post
    Are you using the stock ATI air filter? I switched mine for a larger filter and picked up 2 psi. I have a D1SC so I'm not familar with P1 but with a 3.2 inch pulley I would expect a few more psi. With the bigger filter you have less restriction and less drag on the motor.
    With the 3.2 pulley it helped gain back the boost I lost due to no cat's and adding headers. So, I'm guessing my boost is about 8 psi at full throttle. I may try the bigger filter if there is room for it.
    Last edited by camarossowner; 07-30-2008 at 01:57 PM.

  7. #47
    Desert Boat Guy SouthernBornThriller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam0321 View Post
    ok so what is the difference between a turbo charger and a super charger? and what is better to combine with heads/cam package and poss no2
    Turbocharger = Mounts into your exhaust system to increase airflow (therefore, power)

    Supercharger = Mounts to your engine itself and forces more air into the engine, thus increasing flow.

    Basically, one's in front, ones out back.

    Best, would pretty obviously be having a supercharger on the motor, then a pair of turbos on the back...but that pretty much requires a whole new engine to handle the power, too many mods to list, and well...it just isn't done on street cars too often.

    But as for the Turbo vs. Supercharger debate...that's been going on for decades. I don't have enough experience with both to provide an educated opinion on the level with a lot of others in this forum. However, there is an entire thread devoted to that debate floating around here somewhere.

  8. #48
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    Supercharger vs. Turbo

    He is right in regards to about a 70 page forum on here debating between the two. Read this article for a very basic overview.

    http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19

    I am in the works for saving up for a ProCharger D-1SC myself.

  9. #49
    Junior Member MR NOS's Avatar
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    ok i think the ProCharger is the best supercharger out there but i want to know which kind is the best ?!?! sorry guys but i don't have alot info about ProChargers that's why i'm asking ...... like ! which one gives you alot of psi ? which one is the strogest

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    http://truck.xtremeownage.com/links.php

    Theres some information up in there....

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    i think i have a question or two in the same vein as this thread; looking at getting into forced induction but im not sure how low i really should go on my compression and how much boost i can safely add;

    i have a lt1, forged internals, 195cc trickflow heads, gms lt4 hot cam, lt4 intake mani, 58mm tb, lt headers, msd dist/wires, and currently around 11.3 or so compression ratio.

    i know if i go that route ill need to change my cam, lower my compression, increase the fuel flow, and i would add meth injection, stronger clutch, but do i really need to change the heads, and i suppose if it will fit under a 98-02 hood, a procharger will fit under my stock hood (95 camaro)? i also have a 4.11 final gear, which i like, but is that also something people change when going over to boost?

    And i dont know what a good balance is between compression and low boost, i know its a topic beat to death, but with meth cant i push that envelope a small bit?

    i saw the comment about cooler spark plugs, is that to fight detonation?

    ive seen bobs list of things for power upgrades, and i already have some suspension stuff, but i couldnt figure the answers to these questions.

    ps, goal of about 575 rwhp.
    sorry if i made anyone's eyes bleed.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by corlain View Post
    i think i have a question or two in the same vein as this thread; looking at getting into forced induction but im not sure how low i really should go on my compression and how much boost i can safely add;

    i have a lt1, forged internals, 195cc trickflow heads, gms lt4 hot cam, lt4 intake mani, 58mm tb, lt headers, msd dist/wires, and currently around 11.3 or so compression ratio.

    i know if i go that route ill need to change my cam, lower my compression, increase the fuel flow, and i would add meth injection, stronger clutch, but do i really need to change the heads, and i suppose if it will fit under a 98-02 hood, a procharger will fit under my stock hood (95 camaro)? i also have a 4.11 final gear, which i like, but is that also something people change when going over to boost?

    And i dont know what a good balance is between compression and low boost, i know its a topic beat to death, but with meth cant i push that envelope a small bit?

    i saw the comment about cooler spark plugs, is that to fight detonation?

    ive seen bobs list of things for power upgrades, and i already have some suspension stuff, but i couldnt figure the answers to these questions.

    ps, goal of about 575 rwhp.
    sorry if i made anyone's eyes bleed.
    I'm not too up to speed on the lt1, but 11.3:1 compression is high IMO. I think for higher boost applications you want to be in the 9-9.5:1 range. What are you currently putting down with your mods? I don't think that high flow heads are as important with FI. What is important is that you have more CCs. Also, typically people with FI have higher gear ratios (3.42/3.73) so they can be in the powerband and take advantage of the boost levels longer. When you say forged internals, are you referring to the pistons AND connecting rods? I am guessing to hit your goal you'd need to be running somewhere in the 12psi range..just a guess though. As far as I know the Procharger should fit as it isn't mounted in the same typical fashion as say a roots type blower. Lastly, with that kind of power, you'd be needing to upgrade not only your clutch, but also your rearend, especially so with a stick.

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    crank, rods, and pistons are forged, and hardened pushrods. fraid i dont know what its putting down as is, never been to a dyno. butt dyno says about 400 but thats just a guess.

    i take it with my power goal i should just not consider dropping the compression to around 10 or 10.5 and running less boost, and instead just go with the 9-9.5 and 12 or so psi?

    thanks.

  14. #54
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by corlain View Post
    crank, rods, and pistons are forged, and hardened pushrods. fraid i dont know what its putting down as is, never been to a dyno. butt dyno says about 400 but thats just a guess.

    i take it with my power goal i should just not consider dropping the compression to around 10 or 10.5 and running less boost, and instead just go with the 9-9.5 and 12 or so psi?

    thanks.
    I'm no expert by any means so I'm sure someone else will comment...but

    If you are currently at 400rwhp then you would in theory need 44% more power to hit your 575rwhp number. Therefore, you would only need about 7psi...(.44 X 14.7psi = approx 7psi). Add a little for drive train loss.

    Running methonal will keep things cooler and you can probably safely run higher boost levels with your current compression. You'd need a good fuel system running meth though, and of course it would cost more. From what I recall, you need about 2X the fuel running meth as opposed to standard gas.

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    I have the same set up and made 505 to the r/w and 22 mpg !!!!!

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    I have the same set up and made 505 to the r/w with 22 mpg with 6 speed

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    MYSTIC TEAL
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    U don't need all that unless u have a track car. what about a nice street car fast but not raced every weekend. u want need all that ,what I call always at the track stuff.

  18. #58
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I have all that or most of it and I dont run my car at the track. I just didn't want shit breaking left and right. That's easy to do when you have that amount of power.
    It's on jackstands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBornThriller View Post
    Turbocharger = Mounts into your exhaust system to increase airflow (therefore, power)

    Supercharger = Mounts to your engine itself and forces more air into the engine, thus increasing flow.

    Basically, one's in front, ones out back.

    Best, would pretty obviously be having a supercharger on the motor, then a pair of turbos on the back...but that pretty much requires a whole new engine to handle the power, too many mods to list, and well...it just isn't done on street cars too often.

    But as for the Turbo vs. Supercharger debate...that's been going on for decades. I don't have enough experience with both to provide an educated opinion on the level with a lot of others in this forum. However, there is an entire thread devoted to that debate floating around here somewhere.
    This is a joke right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus View Post
    Thanks guys, I appreciate it! Here is something that I put together that might help answer a few questions. Item 15 will answer the ProCharger item requirements. Bob


    Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
    With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.

    Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.

    1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.

    2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.

    3. Moser 12 bolt - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine.

    4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser 12 bolt with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain.

    5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search on this forum for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.

    At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
    For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.

    6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.

    7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.

    8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.

    9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.

    10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.

    11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.

    12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.

    13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.

    14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Flowtech headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
    Flowtech and Hooker ceramic coated headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The Flowtech headers are priced very competitively with PaceSetter headers, yet they install and fit much better. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers.
    The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.

    For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!

    15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.

    Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob






    Over 500 hp out the door, and will still get great gas mileage!

    Our standard 8 psi system for $7,499.99.00 includes:

    ATI ProCharger D-1SC 8 rib supercharger with (new for '05) larger 4.5" twin high-flow intercooler system
    LS1 Edit programming and tuning on our Mustang Chassis Dyno
    Ford SVO 42lb fuel injectors
    Holley/Walbro 340 in tank forced induction fuel pump with in-tank modifications
    Spark plugs for forced induction

    Also Includes ATI Performance Products Harmonic Balancer, which is required for the 8 rib belt assembly


    Includes our dyno computer tuning and complete print-outs

    The D1SC supercharger system carries a 1-year warranty from ATI.
    Is this still current? This was written in 2005, just want to make sure there wasn't any new insights. My car will be about 99% street, may make it to a take someday but who knows so I'm setting it up as a street car.

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