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STS Turbo??? What you think??

This is a discussion on STS Turbo??? What you think?? within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I know about the altitude issues. Here in Tucson, the track is at 3075 ft and much of the year ...

  1. #21
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    I know about the altitude issues. Here in Tucson, the track is at 3075 ft and much of the year the density altitude is well above that because of the high temps. I was at the track two weeks ago and it was over 5000ft DA. I had to turn up the boost to get the car to run the times it usually does (can't do this with anything but a turbo). People don't believe me when I tell them that here stock LS1s run high 13s/low 14s, C6 Z06s only run mid 12s, GT500s are low 13s at best etc..

    Here was my thought process on going turbo:

    When I first got the car I was going to stay naturally aspirated. After the cam and headers I realized that N/A cars get less streetable as power goes up unless you increase cubes at the same time. Increasing cubes is expensive and you can only get so much into the engine bay of a 4th gen fbody. At the time there was no LSX block available and I didn't know it was coming. Anyways, it is still expensive and less streetable for similar power levels.

    I thought about nitrous oxide which is the least expensive way to go for big power and decided not to go that way. I wanted to have the power there all the time and not have to get the bottle filled. I also thought of how much it costs to get the bottle filled every time and where that money could be spent. I've seen some very nice setups though and they perform really well.

    I considered a supercharger system as well for the ease of installation and tuning. There are some good kits out there that really put down good numbers with torque right off idle practically. I might try it some day (especially if the new camaro gets a supercharged LS3 option), but I really wanted the ability to turn up the boost with a knob. I seriously considered a procharger kit that would have easily gotten me over 500rwhp.

    For me, turbo was the best option. Front mount kits offer the best performance, but they are harder to install, crowd up the engine bay and/or don't keep the accessories. I'll probably end up with a nice twin kit someday, but until then, I'm going to try and max this thing out to see what it will do.

  2. #22
    I Like It Stroked 99Ls1fever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginjoe View Post
    I know about the altitude issues. Here in Tucson, the track is at 3075 ft and much of the year the density altitude is well above that because of the high temps. I was at the track two weeks ago and it was over 5000ft DA. I had to turn up the boost to get the car to run the times it usually does (can't do this with anything but a turbo). People don't believe me when I tell them that here stock LS1s run high 13s/low 14s, C6 Z06s only run mid 12s, GT500s are low 13s at best etc..

    Here was my thought process on going turbo:

    When I first got the car I was going to stay naturally aspirated. After the cam and headers I realized that N/A cars get less streetable as power goes up unless you increase cubes at the same time. Increasing cubes is expensive and you can only get so much into the engine bay of a 4th gen fbody. At the time there was no LSX block available and I didn't know it was coming. Anyways, it is still expensive and less streetable for similar power levels.

    I thought about nitrous oxide which is the least expensive way to go for big power and decided not to go that way. I wanted to have the power there all the time and not have to get the bottle filled. I also thought of how much it costs to get the bottle filled every time and where that money could be spent. I've seen some very nice setups though and they perform really well.

    I considered a supercharger system as well for the ease of installation and tuning. There are some good kits out there that really put down good numbers with torque right off idle practically. I might try it some day (especially if the new camaro gets a supercharged LS3 option), but I really wanted the ability to turn up the boost with a knob. I seriously considered a procharger kit that would have easily gotten me over 500rwhp.

    For me, turbo was the best option. Front mount kits offer the best performance, but they are harder to install, crowd up the engine bay and/or don't keep the accessories. I'll probably end up with a nice twin kit someday, but until then, I'm going to try and max this thing out to see what it will do.
    what times are you running with your turbo at the track, and what dyno numbers is the turbo giving you? thanks

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  4. #24
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    IMO its cheaper with a H/C than a remote turbo option to get good power i.e. 500 rwhp maybe with a lil spray. I plan on a H/C with no 90/90 and no spray on a 228/230 cam w/AFR's 450rwhp then maybe a 50 shot down the road.

    But if you just had to have a turbo I'd suggest APS or HP Performance. Those new TT kits are insane!
    http://www.fquick.com/pipelayaz
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99Ls1fever View Post
    what times are you running with your turbo at the track, and what dyno numbers is the turbo giving you? thanks
    I ran a best of 12.0 @ 120mph w/2.0 60ft @ 8psi. <---That's well over 525rwhp with a 3700+lb car. With a decent 60 ft it would have been a mid to low 11s car. I ran it low on oil though and killed the motor (it had a clacking sound and metal in the brand new oil) before I could get a better pass. I had bad piston slap from day one and used over a qt every 1k miles. When I added the turbo it used even more because of blowby. It was my mistake. It's been sitting cause the wife left and we're fighting over a bunch of crap. Anyways, I dyno'd at 5 psi and got 440rwhp and 420rwtq. <---this is about equivalent to a H/C set up, so if you're gonna do it at least go for 7-8psi system.

    Here's the run where it broke 12.0 @ 120mph.

    http://videos.streetfire.net/video/b...580029e041.htm
    Last edited by enginjoe; 09-02-2007 at 10:07 PM.

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    Here's something else you might want to see.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=776594

    When my car grows up, it will be this car. No lag there. Again, this kit has been customized and the motor is a forged, low comp, stroker.

  7. #27
    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Just my 2 cents but I will never build another rear mount turbo! The STS kit is a great idea and all but there are some issues with it that I've covered in previous threads. The main one is oiling! I can't tell you how many have had issues with getting the oil back to the front of the car. It's just not as good as people want to claim it is. I've spoke directly with STS and stopping short of admiting that there are some issues with that they haven't been able to get it reliable. You're asking a pump to push the oil to the front of the car, over the firewall, and contend with the g-forces of the car on heavy throttle. Do a google search for STS oil problems and see how many other people have had the same problem. I built one based off their design and even used a better pump but I still had a oiling problem. Could be just me but from now on......the turbo goes where is should...in the front! As soon as I get mine moved and done I'll take some pics.......I'm keeping the A/C!!! Hell bent on that!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginjoe View Post
    Here's something else you might want to see.

    http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=776594

    When my car grows up, it will be this car. No lag there. Again, this kit has been customized and the motor is a forged, low comp, stroker.
    Of course there is lag it's a turbo. He even admits that the torque of the motor hides it. I think this car is awesome but it's a poor example to use as justification for an STS kit. Tons of money was poured into this car, parts were broken and in the end I question if similiar results couldn't have been achieved for less money going another route. I take nothing away from what was done here but it was expensive and the point of the STS kit is it's cheap. The kits have oiling issues plain and simple. In stock form they have serious lag issues. I've heard more then one person claim if they had it to do over again they'd go frount mount or another route completely.

    I agree completely about your H/C comment no way an H/C combo only is going produce FI numbers. I just think in the end with the money involved to get a good rear mount set up going to a front mount or supercharger would be better and cheaper but that's just my two cents.

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    I did say it was customized with a forged, low comp stroker. I also said farther above that it (the STS kit with all you need) will be more expensive than you think. The main reasons for going STS are ease of installation, retention of all accessories, less crowding/heating of the engine bay and just to be different. It seems to me that I have seen people have trouble with all kinds of kits. One thing to consider though is this; the STS kit's price and the lure of easier installation has attracted alot of FI noobs who don't know enough to be doing this to their cars. I can count myself as having been one of those. Of course I have learned alot in the process. I think that's why we see a few more problems per capita with STS than with the other type of kits. When kits (of any kind) are installed by a good shop (ie TRTurbo, etc.), problems seem to be few and far between.

    Anyways, it's up to the individual. I think there is a lot more data to go on now than back when I got mine.

  10. #30
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    You're right the kit does attract of a lot of noobs to FI. I think that's how STS intended it. I honestly thought for a while I would go this route but after researching and adding up the amount of money to improve the system to get it to be what I wanted it no longer seemed like a cheap alternative. I'm still undecided on which route I will go twin turbo, supercharger or stroker. I'm just going to go full bolt on and work the suspension for now.

    I'm curious enginjoe knowing what you know now would you do it over again or go another route?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rc74racer View Post
    You're right the kit does attract of a lot of noobs to FI. I think that's how STS intended it. I honestly thought for a while I would go this route but after researching and adding up the amount of money to improve the system to get it to be what I wanted it no longer seemed like a cheap alternative. I'm still undecided on which route I will go twin turbo, supercharger or stroker. I'm just going to go full bolt on and work the suspension for now.

    I'm curious enginjoe knowing what you know now would you do it over again or go another route?
    Knowing what I know now about FI and all the issues that go along with it as well as how addicting boost is, I would have waited until I could save up the money and get everything done at once. By that I mean, forged low comp motor, drive train, fuel, intercooler and PCV. I cannot imagine being satisfied with a 5psi system making 440rwhp after driving a 550rwhp one.

    If the choices of systems was the same, I would still get the STS, but with the T76 upgrade, BFMIC and 402 stroker. At the time I did this there was no front mount system that kept all the accessories and was street legal that I liked. I still think they all pretty much ruin the engine bay except for the TTi race kit (but that deletes the AC). Now (of course after I've jumped in and bought the farm) APS comes along and is the one I would like to end up with. Really, the Fbody does not lend itself to turbocharging along with all accessories and street legalness (<--new word) if you ask me. The vette and the GTO have much more room to put the piping.

    Anyways, I'm gonna max this thing out, get everything else done and eventually get a twin or front mount kit. I might even suck it up and get one that deletes the AC.

  12. #32
    Member JayplaySS2's Avatar
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    I would go FI but not STS. If you do H/C and THEN decide its not enough, you would possibly need to change setups again due to cam choice and compression from heads. Research a good turbo kit and go that route.
    These guys rock and make excelent kits.
    http://www.airpowersystems.com/

    Here is thier work on LS1tech.com
    http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...&highlight=aps

    Here is a used STS kit for sale.
    http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...&highlight=aps

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