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STS Turbo in Camaro SS at Exotic Performance Plus

This is a discussion on STS Turbo in Camaro SS at Exotic Performance Plus within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I really don't see the advantage to that. Aren't there companies making "normal" turbo kits for the LS1. I'm interested ...

  1. #21
    I really don't see the advantage to that. Aren't there companies making "normal" turbo kits for the LS1. I'm interested in seeing a dyno graph. I'm also curious as to when the car will make full boost and how bad the lag will be with all that piping. I bet finding a boost leak would be a major pain in the butt...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatever
    I really don't see the advantage to that. Aren't there companies making "normal" turbo kits for the LS1. I'm interested in seeing a dyno graph. I'm also curious as to when the car will make full boost and how bad the lag will be with all that piping. I bet finding a boost leak would be a major pain in the butt...
    they've been around for a couple of years and have proved themselves already...i find it funny when people still doubt the kit. it makes full boost between 2500-3000 rpms. their are traditional mounted turbo kits, but the places go out of bussiness everyother month. advantage to it is...cost, less heat in engien pay..near stock looks under the hood, in most places it will pass emissions easily because its after the cats and I believe they are trying to get a carb number for cali to make it 50 state legal. There are a few gtos running in the 10s with it.

  3. #23
    Blackbird
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    it is carb legal now.

    happened a few weeks ago.

  4. #24
    Member Exotic Performance Plus's Avatar
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    I've added many more pic's. Check them out! Bob
    Check out our huge website at http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com

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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonDrecksage
    in most places it will pass emissions easily because its after the cats and I believe they are trying to get a carb number for cali to make it 50 state legal.
    That doesn't really make any sense to me. The turbo may be mounted after the cat's but it's still pumping the air back up to the intake, so it still doing the same thing as a turbo that is mounted in the engine bay. Why would the position of the turbo effect emissions? The engine is putting off the same exhaust gases regardless of where you mount the turbo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatever
    That doesn't really make any sense to me. The turbo may be mounted after the cat's but it's still pumping the air back up to the intake, so it still doing the same thing as a turbo that is mounted in the engine bay. Why would the position of the turbo effect emissions? The engine is putting off the same exhaust gases regardless of where you mount the turbo.
    because cats need heat to work..when you have a turbo...that sucks up most of the heat...which in turn will either make the cats less effective..or take longer to get up to temp. plus, most turbo kits don't keep the cats when you install them. Also, in cali..the cats can't be moved from their original postition...its sort of hard to not move the in most turbo kits because of the placement of the turbo.

  7. #27
    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    For a kit to be emissions compliant it either has to leave the emissions equipment as built and certified-or it has to go through the expensive and complicated testing that the OEM factories had to do.Nobody in the aftermarket has the money to do that for the limited market that they sell to.By not moving or removing the emissions equipment it is much easier to get it certified.The cats need engine heat to heat up quickly and start cleaning the exhaust ASAP-that's why they are designed as close to the motor as possible.New pics are great-waiting for you to fire that puppy up!!
    Last edited by 02z28ls1; 09-29-2005 at 06:03 PM.

  8. #28
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    I have an STS in my 97 LT1. It has its pluses and minuses. I would like to clear up a few things, if I may:
    Exhaust gas has 2 types of energy, heat and pressure.
    The heat is dissipated during the passage down the exhaust, this is the lost energy. The pressure must remain the same (remember, an engine is a glorfied air pump) unless you have an exhaust leak.
    Yes, finding a boost leak is a bear, that is why STS recommends welding the pipes (but only after you ask them).
    Yes, hearing the wastegate let off behind you is odd.
    Benefits include a less crowded and a cooler engine bay. Lag is non-existent. I know, I drove today and enjoyed the instant power on-demand.
    Shortcomings include a very noisy oil pump (it is bolted right behind you) and the intake down next to the rear tire.
    Also, they interfere with subframe connectors, which cannot co-exist.
    Clearances are extremely tight with all the plumbing, especially the intake.
    If you want to run 5-8 lb of boost, it is an adequate kit if you can put up with its shortcomings. However, STS will eventually tell you that if you want to run higher boost levels, say in the 15 lb range, go with a front.
    All in all, it is a decent, but not earth shattering, noisy kit.
    kk

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolaid_kid
    I have an STS in my 97 LT1. It has its pluses and minuses. I would like to clear up a few things, if I may:
    Exhaust gas has 2 types of energy, heat and pressure.
    The heat is dissipated during the passage down the exhaust, this is the lost energy. The pressure must remain the same (remember, an engine is a glorfied air pump) unless you have an exhaust leak.
    Yes, finding a boost leak is a bear, that is why STS recommends welding the pipes (but only after you ask them).
    Yes, hearing the wastegate let off behind you is odd.
    Benefits include a less crowded and a cooler engine bay. Lag is non-existent. I know, I drove today and enjoyed the instant power on-demand.
    Shortcomings include a very noisy oil pump (it is bolted right behind you) and the intake down next to the rear tire.
    Also, they interfere with subframe connectors, which cannot co-exist.
    Clearances are extremely tight with all the plumbing, especially the intake.
    If you want to run 5-8 lb of boost, it is an adequate kit if you can put up with its shortcomings. However, STS will eventually tell you that if you want to run higher boost levels, say in the 15 lb range, go with a front.
    All in all, it is a decent, but not earth shattering, noisy kit.
    kk
    Just to clarify on what Koolaid said

    It doesn't interfere with the passenger side subframe connector, and the piping will weld in place of the driver's side connector - acting as a subframe connector itself. 5-8# is the limit for the base kit, throw in an intercooler or meth and you can push 10# with little issue and some have taken the kit to over 700hp with even higher boost levels.

    For a car that will see more street duty than track duty, the STS is hard to beat. If your goals are primarily to dominate at the track with a 9-second car, it's probably best to just go front mount.

  10. #30
    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    OK-if it loses heat energy-how does that effect turbo operation for the worse?Can you isolate the oil pump with bushings or something to quiet it down-how loud are we talking about-obnoxious or slightly annoying?I was always viewing this as a streetable thing-a 9 sec. car would not be emissions legal where I live.You could always go to a rollcage instead of sub-frame connectors-like a 4 or 6 point set-up.
    Last edited by 02z28ls1; 10-01-2005 at 09:31 AM.

  11. #31
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Bad Mojo]Just to clarify on what Koolaid said
    It doesn't interfere with the passenger side subframe connector, and the piping will weld in place of the driver's side connector - acting as a subframe connector itself. QUOTE]

    As Bad Mojo stated in a round-about way, you cannot put a subframe connector on the driver's side. If you believe that the piping will be as good as a subframe connector, I suggest you but two sets of pipes and save the money from the subframe connectors.
    And also, call the vendors to order a passenger's side subframe connector. Only. Let me know how it goes.
    kk

  12. #32
    Senior Member Zboner's Avatar
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    what is this kit? i see this car once a week


  13. #33
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02z28ls1
    OK-if it loses heat energy-how does that effect turbo operation for the worse?Can you isolate the oil pump with bushings or something to quiet it down-how loud are we talking about-obnoxious or slightly annoying?I was always viewing this as a streetable thing-a 9 sec. car would not be emissions legal where I live.You could always go to a rollcage instead of sub-frame connectors-like a 4 or 6 point set-up.
    1) A front mount turbo will convert some of that heat energy into turbine power, slightly increasing the efficiency of the turbo.
    2) The pump is already isolated by rubber insulators. It is very annoying inside the car, which acts like a sound amplifier. It is so loud outside the car that it can easily be heard over the unmuffled exhaust. Clearly the loudest part of the entire car. It has its own section in the troubleshooting section, titled "Oil pump is noisy", so it is a known problem.
    3) It is very streetable, if the car was streetable before. I would not hesitate to drive my car across the county tomorrow.
    kk

  14. #34
    Senior Member 02z28ls1's Avatar
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    It's always great to hear from someone with first hand knowledge-I never heard about the noise issue from anywhere else before.I'm thinking it would freak out the non-gearhead people I know (the majority it seems like) who would be less impressed w/the turbo because of it . I could probably live with it cause that would be the price to pay for performance. Is there any possibility of enclosing it in some kind of insulated box to reduce the noise some? I haven't actually seen an installed unit .

  15. #35
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    02z28ls1,
    I never heard of it either, before owning one. I even read the mag articles, which never spoke of it. When I picked it up from the installer and said something, he said (paraphrasing) "Yeah, they all do that".
    The reason I picked the turbo over a supercharger was that I could hear the whine of the 'charger. I have a sleeper, and I did not want to give away the fact that I had a power adder. Oops.
    Yes, a non-gear head (a.k.a. gf) is dismayed at the sound.
    But the performance is quite good.
    My next task is to do as you suggest:
    Figure out a way to isolate the noise (it is probably a combination of electric motor whine and impeller vibration) and then cool it, since it will no longer be exposed to the elements.
    Once I overcome this obstacle, I will be pleased. I am just irritated that STS did not do this work up front as they should have done.

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    [QUOTE=koolaid_kid]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Mojo
    Just to clarify on what Koolaid said
    It doesn't interfere with the passenger side subframe connector, and the piping will weld in place of the driver's side connector - acting as a subframe connector itself. QUOTE]

    As Bad Mojo stated in a round-about way, you cannot put a subframe connector on the driver's side. If you believe that the piping will be as good as a subframe connector, I suggest you but two sets of pipes and save the money from the subframe connectors.
    And also, call the vendors to order a passenger's side subframe connector. Only. Let me know how it goes.
    kk
    I already had a set of chrome moly Spohn SFC's in place, just had to ditch the driver's side

    I haven't noticed any decrease in stiffness or handling though, which is good.

  17. #37
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    My apologies for hijacking the thread. I had only hoped to dispel some of the misconceptions about the STS system.
    There are some excellent pics at:
    exoticperformanceplus
    It appears as though they overcame some of the flaws of the STS setup. Excellent job. I especially like what they did with the tailpipe and the wastegate flange; I will probably borrow those ideas myself.
    All-in-all, very fine work from Exotic Performance Plus.
    kk
    I am not allowed to post the URL, but go check it out.

  18. #38
    Member koolaid_kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Mojo
    I already had a set of chrome moly Spohn SFC's in place, just had to ditch the driver's side

    I haven't noticed any decrease in stiffness or handling though, which is good.
    That is a good thing. I got the same answer from STS that you did, which suggests that the intake pipe can serve as a stressed member of the frame. Having taken both Statics and Dynamics in college, I suggest this is inaccurate information.
    kk
    p.s. What I would really like to see is STS work with a SFC designer to build a set that will work with the STS system.

  19. #39
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    Wow, I want to know what that sounds like! (Haven't gone to the website yet, will after this)

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exotic Performance Plus
    I've added many more pic's. Check them out! Bob
    WOW, i mean wow... that's an awesome job you guys have done and I love how you document it so well. Can yo upossibly get a sound clip on the site of that ls1? I really want to know what that beast sounds like with a turbo as a muffler!

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